swaged bullet leading

[RealGun]

I have done some resetting of dies, tests with FMJ and many samples of 200 gr Zero, swaged, .452 LSWC, and there is no question that the bullet is being swaged by the case during bullet insertion.

It's not the die, because the small portion of the bullet at or slightly above the case mouth, bell still there, is still .452, while the rest of the pulled bullet is .450-.451.

Continuing with the crimp step changes nothing except removing the bell. Pulling bullets after that step shows the same measurements as after bullet insertion, i.e. the FCD is not involved in the problem, at least now while at .451.

It looks like the extra Hornady dies I ordered for a separate setup, no FCD, will make no difference except for options in OAL, but the .452 expander plug replacing the .451 definitely should affect the swaging during insertion. I should have that part to try on Monday.

 

[RealGun]

If necessary, could I use my .45 Colt bullet insertion die at .452? Maybe even the crimp die, set for light enough to avoid any roll?

 

[918v]

It dos not matter how much the case swaged down the bullet cuz the front band will seal.

 

[RealGun]

I realized that I already owned a .452 PTX for the Hornady powder drop, so I installed it. I had bought it for .45 Colt, so I had to make some setup adjustments to the powder drop due to the difference in case lengths.

Well, it seems to have worked, because bullets pulled before and after crimping still measure .452. So now I just have to get out and shoot some and see if there is still a leading issue.

To review, the swaged Zero bullets were being resized to .450-.451 during bullet insertion (swaged by the case sized for .451). The theory is that it caused the leading problem at a velocity and bullet hardness that should not have been a problem.

 

[RealGun]

I had a chance to shoot some today and did not get significant leading except at the forcing cone. Pretty standard cleaning procedure took care of it. I think the problem has been solved, i.e. a soft lead bullet (Zero swaged) can be swaged down by a case that is too tight, causing leading.

I will confess that I departed from scientific procedure and changed a variable. I used HP-38 this time in place of Bullseye, still 4.6 gr, and guesstimated at about 800 fps. They are both published loads from the respective powder companies. Test gun was S&W 625JM.

Also, the solution lies in getting a special expander plug that sizes to .452 instead of .451 for .45 ACP. Hornady's special part # is 451A, for which you have to call and ask, since it is not listed.

While I did try the #452 from my .45 Colt setup, it wasn't the right length. Those cartridges fired okay, but I won't make any more and don't need to, given the Hornady #451A, which they label as ".451/.452" instead of their ".451" and ".452" (the latter intended for .45 Colt case lengths).

 

[243winxb]

I used HP-38 this time in place of Bullseye, still 4.6 gr,

Went from a high pressure load to just above starting load. Using a FCD

 

[RealGun]

243winxb - Went from a high pressure load to just above starting load. Using a FCD.

Not using an FCD. The press has been changed over to use two new Hornady dies, one bullet insertion and one taper crimp.

I see your point about the contrasting loads, and I will follow up on proving them both out, repeating the Bullseye test and raising the HP-38 to something comparable, tentatively 5.4 gr. However, the data in various sources is all over the place, some not listing pressures. According to the Alliant and Hodgdon data, I did match velocities, wanting about 800 fps as good for accuracy (according to Hornady).

When you mock what I'm doing, it would be more helpful if you were a little more specific.

 

[RealGun]

Redid the sample, back to 4.6 gr Bullseye associated with the original leading.

I defined "leading" as significantly more cleaning needed than usual, aside from the visible deposits in the barrel, if any.

I also loaded some 5.4 gr HP-38 as a parity load, shot in a different gun.

Both guns (loads) had some leading near the forcing cone but nothing in the barrel. I didn't look until I had done what would normally have been enough cleaning.

Bullet was Zero 200 LSWC (swaged).

I understand about loading for less velocity (currently about 800), but I am not interested in that and would sooner go back to FMJ or just a harder lead. I prefer to believe the opinions that much leading is not normal for these loads. I am looking more for the mechanical solution.

ICBW in my conclusions, but I think the trace leading - only just ahead of the forcing cone - tells me that obturation is occurring.

 

[918v]

I don't consider what Zero puts on their swaged bullets as lube. It's more like a pain in the rear, sticky crap.

You know what good cast bullet lube is? It's the NRA 50/50 alox/beeswax mix. I've been using that with zero leading. It's like I'm shooting a .45 caliber rimfire. My 625 has .453" throats. My bullets are .4525". My load is 4grs of Bullseye under a H&G #78 225gr SWC @ 1.165" OAL. My BHN is 12.

You can play with different powders but you'll find the lube on your bullets is the problem.

 

[Hondo 60]

RPRNY's Post #6 has my vote for excellent info.

What size is your bore? Me thinks it's larger than the diameter of the bullets.
That allows the bullet to skip down the barrel, rather than grabbing the lands & grooves of the rifling.

 

[RealGun]

The problem was neither the barrel nor the bullet, but yes, they were mismatched. However, the reason was the bullet was smaller in diameter after loading than before....down from.452 to just under .450. That has now been solved, but we need a couple more trips to the range with thorough cleaning in between to say the bullets and load perform as should be expected.