Swiss do not want EU gun control

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jsalcedo

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Swiss shooters target Schengen accord

swissinfo May 12, 2005 10:10 AM




Taking aim: the Swiss gun lobby fears restrictions on weapons' purchases (Keystone)
Shooting is more than just a sport to many Swiss, who believe a whole way of life would be under threat if the nation signs up to the Schengen accord.

Geared to improve cross-border security, the European Union agreement also lays down minimum requirements for acquiring and possessing firearms.



"The Swiss are well armed and enjoy great freedom," wrote Machiavelli in 1532.

Many Swiss today see a causal connection between the two, with three million firearms in private hands.

And when they realised that a yes to Schengen would require changes to their liberal firearm laws, they came out with all guns blazing.

"We won’t let ourselves be disarmed by the EU!" says Willy Pfund, from the Committee for a Free Gun Law, which is calling for Schengen to be rejected, and also president of Pro Tell, a 7,000-strong pro-gun lobby.

"Not only is the security of Switzerland at stake but also the sovereignty of its gun laws," Pfund added.

Pro Tell sees Schengen as the beginning of a slippery slope.

"If Switzerland enters into Schengen, sooner or later it will be forced to take on further tightening of European gun laws," Pfund said.

The Swiss public is set to vote on whether to implement the accord, which covers other cross-border security issues and the removal of border controls with EU member states, on June 5. The upcoming ballot is also making emotions run high.

"This is an imported law that brings us nothing – it’s a farce!" Fritz Kilchenmann, president of the Zurich Shooting Association, told swissinfo.

"Respectable and law-abiding marksmen, hunters and gun collectors are being compared to criminals. You won’t prevent any crimes by taking weapons away from private owners and banning them," said Kilchenmann.

Difference of opinion

Not all hunters, however, are calling for a no.

"Hunters can live with Schengen," says Urs Weber, director of the 200,000-member Swiss Shooting Association.

"I had to register my mobile phone – I don’t see why one should refuse to register a weapon."

JagdSchweiz, an umbrella organisation for Swiss hunters, has also distanced itself from Pro Tell's stance.

It says the revision of the gun laws is only a small part of Schengen’s security efforts as a whole.

New laws

The main change that Schengen will have on gun laws, should the Swiss vote in its favour, is that the previous distinction between retail and private purchases would no longer apply.

Both types of acquisition would have to be reported to a cantonal office as well as weapons obtained by inheritance.

The firearms would also be classified as falling into one of three categories.

The first is banned weapons (automatic guns, disguised weapons and weapons of war such as grenade and rocket launchers), for which an exemption is required.

The second category is weapons requiring approval (revolvers, pistols and semi-automatics) and an acquisition certificate.

A reason must be given when applying for the acquisition certificate (although an interest in guns will do!) but the buyer does not have to prove a need.

Hunters, sports shooters and collectors are exempt from giving a reason for purchase.

The third category is weapons which have to be simply reported. These include rifles used for hunting and sports shooting.

In addition, a European firearms passport will be introduced, which will make life easier for hunters or sports shooters temporarily exporting guns to or passing through a Schengen state.

The requirements which apply to the purchase of weapons will also apply to ammunition.

No change

However, the guidelines have a limited area of application and give the Swiss legislature a degree of flexibility.

Swiss law will still have the final say on many issues.

This means that the Schengen accord will have no effect on the Swiss militia, young people’s shooting clubs, the right of soldiers to store their military rifles at home or the requirement that they return them when they leave the army.

The accord also does not require a central national weapons register and would not affect the carrying of firearms.

Finally, Schengen will not affect hunting and shooting in Switzerland – national laws regarding such things as hunting permits, the hunting season and shooting events will still stand.

High emotions

Switzerland’s recent history in gun-ownership has been chequered.

In 2001 a gunman entered the cantonal parliament in Zug, killing 14 people before turning the gun on himself. All his firearms, including an army-issue assault rifle, were legally acquired.

The killings shocked a country with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership than the United States but comparatively little gun crime.

The then justice minister, Ruth Metzler, said all guns should be centrally registered, sparking an outcry from the gun lobby and some politicians. The plans were later put on ice.

swissinfo, Thomas Stephens
 
"Hunters can live with Schengen," says Urs Weber, director of the 200,000-member Swiss Shooting Association.

"I had to register my mobile phone – I don’t see why one should refuse to register a weapon."

Ah! Some people are the same no matter where you go. It doesn't affect me much, so I don't care.

As for the phone, like the car argument, I laugh. The phone won't work without being 'registered', not because the gov't wants to keep strict tabs on phones, but if the phone isn't registered, it would be pretty hard to get a call to it.
 
Switzerland’s recent history in gun-ownership has been chequered.

Doesn't this imply that there are some *good* aspects to swiss gun ownership? Like, oh, I dunno, the better part of a millenium as an independent republic? Shouldn't that be mentioned to demonstrate 'chequered'-ness? And if memory serves, the nutball in Zug had a history that disqualified him from lawful possession, making the weapons *il*-legally acquired.
 
The Swiss public is set to vote on whether to implement the accord, which covers other cross-border security issues and the removal of border controls with EU member states, on June 5. The upcoming ballot is also making emotions run high.

Wait...are you telling me that the Swiss public gets to vote on things like gun laws? What an astounding concept.

By the way, the majority of my family comes from Switzerland, and we are very proud of our roots. I hope the Swiss stand up loudly to the EU.
swiss%20flag.gif
 
The Schengen Accord also bans expanding pistol ammuniton- i.e hollowpoint pistol ammo.

:confused:

The Swiss definitely need to reject Schengen.
 
I hope the Swiss give the EU a Junior Peaceman Salute.

Good borders make for good neighbors. If they open up the way the rest of the EU has, sooner or later some dynamite belted idiot will take some good Swiss with him when he thinks he is going to Allah. {May his Virgins all look like Michael Moore, Hiliary Clinton & Janet Reno} :evil:
 
Ah! Some people are the same no matter where you go. It doesn't affect me much, so I don't care.

Pretty much right. I also noticed that the number of members of Pro Tell vs the number of gun owners in Switzerland isn't exactly too far off from the ratio of NRA members to gun owners in the USA.
 
If only the rest of the people could see things the way most of the Swiss do. I have always held great respect for that country. Sometimes I even entertain the idea of moving there, but I'd have to brush up on my French (since I don't know Italian, German, or Romansh!).
 
It's probably a bad idea.....

"Wait...are you telling me that the Swiss public gets to vote on things like gun laws? What an astounding concept."
*********************************************************

To subject basic human rights to the democratic process... :uhoh:
 
Dear Friends,

We (Swiss gun owners) are fighting as hard as we can to win the vote in June. But it is an uphill battle because the Schengen / Dublin agreements on which we are going to vote also contain certain positive elements, for example access to EU online police records which would certainly help our frontier guards and security forces. Moreover, the said agreements do, for the first time, recognise Swiss banking secrecy as legitimate.
Gun control is just one part of the "package". And, to some, it does sound reasonable because it would "only" oblige us to obtain a permit for gun aquisitions between private citizens (we already have to have a permit to buy a gun from a gunshop).
What we are trying to explain to the public is that such a measure is the first step that leads to a central register of guns and, in 10 or 20 years, to a British style confiscation of all guns...
I'll keep you informed. Keep your fingers crossed!
 
Something that leaps out at me:

"We won’t let ourselves be disarmed by the EU!" says Willy Pfund, from the Committee for a Free Gun Law, which is calling for Schengen to be rejected, and also president of Pro Tell, a 7,000-strong pro-gun lobby.

Then later we get

"Hunters can live with Schengen," says Urs Weber, director of the 200,000-member Swiss Shooting Association.

Why does this strike me as similar to various NRA vs. GOA/JPFO disagreements we've seen? We have the many times larger mainstream group willing to compromise and the small upstart that takes a hard line?

I hope it goes better for the Swiss than it has (at least on occassion) for us.
 
*Sigh* Hunters! Are all of them the same all over the world? :banghead:

The Schengen Accord also bans expanding pistol ammuniton- i.e hollowpoint pistol ammo.

a) Germany is a part of "Schengen".
b) Hollow point pistol ammo is NOT, repeat NOT, illegal in Germany. In fact it became legal on April 1st, 2003.
c) HP pistol ammo is already illegal in Switzerland due to Swiss laws.
 
Sometimes I even entertain the idea of moving there, but I'd have to brush up on my French (since I don't know Italian, German, or Romansh!).

My family went on several vacations there in the late 70's and early 80's. The wife and I took our honeymoon there. You can get by with English in Switzerland far better than you can in France or even Germany. Very large numbers of Swiss speak decent English.

Don't let the language thing keep you from going. And visit some of their BEAUTIFUL outdoor ranges. I loved watching the old people riding old black steel bicycles out to the range while balancing a rifle on the handlebars! Those people can really shoot. And the front desk at our hotel had automatic weapons hanging on the back wall behind the clerk. Got to have that stuff ready to hand if you are in the Reserves!

I have very, very fond memories of that small town. Konderstag or Kindersteg or something like that. Ski town that was mostly empty in the summer. They drove the cattle right through town. What a nice place. My Mom has been there more recently and she said it "wasn't the same anymore" but that seems to be true of every place.

Gregg
 
Keep up the fight, Nick_90

And don't forget to point to Australia as an example of how quickly registration of firearms leads to confiscation. :fire:

The "antis" are terrified of personal transactions of firearms....

Such freedom places some firearms outside their control. :eek:
 
To echo T.Stahl's comments, I still get the ProTell newsletter periodically, and yes, I believe that only full jacket (vollmantel?) ammo is available in Switzerland.
 
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