Swiss Straight Pull Rifles
- Thread starter dak0ta
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Get the K31. It is the more modern equivalent and a superb rifle. The action of the K31 is stronger than the K11 and the K11 can be unsafe with modern ammo.
Here is some good info.
http://surplusrifle.com/swissk31/index.asp
Here is some good info.
http://surplusrifle.com/swissk31/index.asp
ChronoCube
Member
The K31 is cheaper actually. And it's an improvement over the K11. Same overall length, stronger action, longer barrel, more compact action.
epijunkie67
Member
I've got one. It is very handy, shoulders well, and is a pleasure to shoot. I don't reload for it but I understand that it can use any standard .308 bullets for reloading so your options are pretty broad. Mine is very accurate but of course that will depend on the weapon since they are all surplus items.
The K11 is not unsafe with modern ammo, and the K11 is not cheaper.
The K11 and G11 rifles were adopted at the same time as the GP11 cartridge that the later, more modern K31 rifle also uses.
K31s are good rifles, as are K11s, but for sake of saying, the G11 rifle is a phenomenally accurate military rifle.
The K11 and G11 rifles were adopted at the same time as the GP11 cartridge that the later, more modern K31 rifle also uses.
K31s are good rifles, as are K11s, but for sake of saying, the G11 rifle is a phenomenally accurate military rifle.
Cosmoline
Member
Vaarok is spot on.
If you can get a K11 for a bargain price, do so. They're not as easy to find as the K31's.
The K11 will give you a slightly shorter barrel for similar OAL. That's the result of its longer bolt. The K31 changed the bolt design and permitted the action to be shorter, thus allowing a notch more barrel. They're both extremely accurate firearms with GP11. Neither is a great platform for hotrodding handloads or changing the chambering, so the relative action strengths aren't a big issue.
If you can get a K11 for a bargain price, do so. They're not as easy to find as the K31's.
The K11 will give you a slightly shorter barrel for similar OAL. That's the result of its longer bolt. The K31 changed the bolt design and permitted the action to be shorter, thus allowing a notch more barrel. They're both extremely accurate firearms with GP11. Neither is a great platform for hotrodding handloads or changing the chambering, so the relative action strengths aren't a big issue.
The "unsafe with modern ammo" bit confuses people because the rifle model just before the K-11 was a conversion which is indeed unsafe due to the way the barrel liners were installed.
The K-11 and the GP11 ammo were designed for use together. I love my 11, still need to get a 31. My K-11 is one of the last 400 ever built.
The K-11 and the GP11 ammo were designed for use together. I love my 11, still need to get a 31. My K-11 is one of the last 400 ever built.
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dak0ta
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With regards to reloading, is it difficult? 284 brass, resize to 7.5x55 with Redding dies, 308 bullets, check OAL, good to go?
I hear that you have to mimic GP 11 specs in order to get good accuracy? True?
Also, for hunting, is it basically a super accurate 308 winchester?
I hear that you have to mimic GP 11 specs in order to get good accuracy? True?
Also, for hunting, is it basically a super accurate 308 winchester?
The nice about K 31 is the short butt stock . They made it such bec of heavy winter clothing the soldiers will be in. I thnk its around 12 3/4 inch long.
And they are perfect for brush country hunting like the classic .30 30 rifle. The 7.5 Swiss 174 gr bullet is no slouch at all, very accurate and mild recoil.
And they are perfect for brush country hunting like the classic .30 30 rifle. The 7.5 Swiss 174 gr bullet is no slouch at all, very accurate and mild recoil.
I have no experience to draw from on the K11.
My K31 story is that I bought this beautiful rifle on gun broker from a fellow that could not get rid of it quick enough. I think it was for $159 plus ship. It has a walnut stock, last month of production. Maybe last day of walnut production. Anyway we headed out to get ready for deer season. I took my Ruger M77V 6mm with Leupold scope and the K31. We settle in and start shooting groups. My final group with the Ruger went just over an inch center to center.
Then I settled in with the K31 shooting Hornady 165 grain ammo open sights at the same range (100 meters). I began to shoot and my buddy spotting just stays quiet. When I get done with my fourth shot, he looks up from the spotting scope and says "You just shot a group the same size you did with your Ruger!" And it was. I then took the rifle and shot several deer that year. It really breaks em down!
My K31 story is that I bought this beautiful rifle on gun broker from a fellow that could not get rid of it quick enough. I think it was for $159 plus ship. It has a walnut stock, last month of production. Maybe last day of walnut production. Anyway we headed out to get ready for deer season. I took my Ruger M77V 6mm with Leupold scope and the K31. We settle in and start shooting groups. My final group with the Ruger went just over an inch center to center.
Then I settled in with the K31 shooting Hornady 165 grain ammo open sights at the same range (100 meters). I began to shoot and my buddy spotting just stays quiet. When I get done with my fourth shot, he looks up from the spotting scope and says "You just shot a group the same size you did with your Ruger!" And it was. I then took the rifle and shot several deer that year. It really breaks em down!
Cosmoline
Member
You can get 7.5x55 brass from Graff & Sons now. The physical reloading of the round is very easy. It takes .308" bullets. The trouble as you note is that these are finely tuned instruments and unlike a Mosin-Nagant or Mauser they are geared around one cartridge loading--the superlative GP-11. It's basically match grade ammo. The Swiss rifle forums have a number of recipes to replicate it with handloads, though. And I think you can get pretty close. The Swiss rifles are not the ones to use if you're going to go with bigger or smaller bullets or do something radical. Though cast bullet plinkers might do OK.
Main point to watch to avoid difficulties is the OAL ... GP11 uses an unusually long, thin nosed bullet. Using regularly available components, you generally end up with a cartridge length of 2.87 - 2.92 or so while spec on GP11 (IIRC) is 3.059.
/Bryan
Virg461
Member
Get 'em both. Honestly, I think the K-31's are better rifles, but the K-11's are scarcer, and will probably rise in value quicker.
I have four K-31's. They used to be 80 bucks, someday they'll be 500. Compared to other milsurps from the same era, there weren't many made (maybe 500K?). They're extremely well made.
Go to a vintage rifle match and watch what most people shoot. You'll see a lot of K-31's. If only they had sights like a Springfield, there's no telling what you could do with them.
I can do 1 to 2 inch groups at 100yards all day long, even with the sliding tangent sights.
One of mine was really rough, covered in rust, stock was cracked. I sporterized it (calm down, purists- this one was really rough). I removed the handguard and cut the fore end of the stock back a few inches. This completely free-floated the barrel, since the stock is already channeled out all the way to the end, and only touches the barrel there because of the bayonet mount.
I mounted a scope, and I can easily keep GP11 ammo within MOA. When the moon is right, I can do .5 inch groups at 100. Amazing rifles, for a milsurp.
GP11 is a little pricey by surplus standards, but it's very, very well made and extremely accurate. Handloaders can maybe do better, but commercial loads won't touch it. Hornady's SP hunting round won't shoot nearly as well as GP11.
I have four K-31's. They used to be 80 bucks, someday they'll be 500. Compared to other milsurps from the same era, there weren't many made (maybe 500K?). They're extremely well made.
Go to a vintage rifle match and watch what most people shoot. You'll see a lot of K-31's. If only they had sights like a Springfield, there's no telling what you could do with them.
I can do 1 to 2 inch groups at 100yards all day long, even with the sliding tangent sights.
One of mine was really rough, covered in rust, stock was cracked. I sporterized it (calm down, purists- this one was really rough). I removed the handguard and cut the fore end of the stock back a few inches. This completely free-floated the barrel, since the stock is already channeled out all the way to the end, and only touches the barrel there because of the bayonet mount.
I mounted a scope, and I can easily keep GP11 ammo within MOA. When the moon is right, I can do .5 inch groups at 100. Amazing rifles, for a milsurp.
GP11 is a little pricey by surplus standards, but it's very, very well made and extremely accurate. Handloaders can maybe do better, but commercial loads won't touch it. Hornady's SP hunting round won't shoot nearly as well as GP11.
jpwilly
Member
K-31 is nice! Good shooters. Mine keeps up with new hunting rifles in the accuracy dept, I've used a clamp on mount and decent glass with a Cabelas Alaskan Guide Scope to shoot some cloverleaf groups, nothing to sniff at. Get them while you can.
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dak0ta
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The one I'm getting is one of the police issue ones that doesn't have a beat up stock! They sell for 499+ where I live, but I think I got a good deal at 275 shipped 
Regarding scope mounting, I can get a clamp mount? How does that work? Any links to some manufacturers?
Regarding scope mounting, I can get a clamp mount? How does that work? Any links to some manufacturers?
madcratebuilder
Member
Swiss Products makes a very nice clamp on mount.
Rocksolid makes a very nice drill and tap mount.
The clamp on is offset to the right, the D&T is over the bore and has a case deflector.
jpwilly
Member
I'm left handed and the offset clamp on scope mount isn't an issue. Centered and low would be better but not practical due to the top ejection of the K-31. Now I have had issues with cases not fully extracting due to them hitting the scope and falling back into the action from time to time.
Virg461
Member
Can't speak to the left handed issue, but I can attest that the Swiss Products clamp on mount is very solid. I was skeptical, but it works very well.
Hatterasguy
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They are both fantastic rifles, I would purchase both. The K11/G11 are older, and probably more accurate than a lot of modern rifles. The K31 is just a more modern design, and as a result easier and a bit cheaper to buy. Whatever you buy you will not be disappointed.
The barrels are usually mint since the Swiss did not use corrosive ammo and were anal about proper cleaning and maintenance.
As for reloading read up on them a bit. These rifles shoot the best with GP11, the closest you can get to GP11 the better they will shoot. Its not a rifle to cook up different loads for, you won't gain anything.
As for sights they are not cheap but the Swiss did make a number of very fine sights for them, since they were and still are used in competitions. They pop up once in awhile and are not cheap.
If you want to spend a few bucks you can get the highly collectible sniper version, the ZFK55.
The barrels are usually mint since the Swiss did not use corrosive ammo and were anal about proper cleaning and maintenance.
As for reloading read up on them a bit. These rifles shoot the best with GP11, the closest you can get to GP11 the better they will shoot. Its not a rifle to cook up different loads for, you won't gain anything.
As for sights they are not cheap but the Swiss did make a number of very fine sights for them, since they were and still are used in competitions. They pop up once in awhile and are not cheap.
If you want to spend a few bucks you can get the highly collectible sniper version, the ZFK55.
vaupet
Member
As for value, good K31 are up to 450 euro over here (600 $)
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