T/C Arms' Not-so-"Pro" Hunter .50 X 209

[Geno]

Those who have followed my posts know that I have a genuine affinity for T/C Arms’ products. I have owned several of them. I use the Contenders and Encores for target shooting, varmint hunting and big game hunting. When the Pro Hunter model was released, I was thrilled at the thoughts of a 28” barrel not only for muzzle loaders, but more over for those cartridges that benefit from long barrels, such .25-06 Rem, .270 Win, 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win or Wea. Mag, etc.

Much to my amazement, when I came home from sighting-in my new Pro Hunter .50 X 209, I noted some serious roughness in the bore. T/C barrels have been excellent in the past, and so, to say the least, I was disappointed! Afterall, I paid $999.00 plus 6% taxes ($1,059.00)!

In addition, I have a T/C Arms .22LR Classic. I took my daughter small game hunting, loaded the rifle, and was taking one shot to assure that the zero had not sifted after the car trip. As I fired, I felt something “pinch” my hand. I thought, that’s odd, I’ve never noted “recoil” in a .22LR! As I went to look, believe it or not, I was being pinched by a crack in the stock!

So, what is my point to all of this? Two of my latest two T/C Arms products have been arguably defective right from the shop. Now, the stock, okay, I can give that a pass. How can anyone know that it was going to crack. But, that muzzle loader bore? Give me a break!!! Fortunately, I do have the name of the individual who inspected my Pro Hunter before it shipped. I will be providing that name to T/C as they receive my barrel and stock. When I called them to arrange for these two items return, I told them that I believe that I should not have to pay for the shipping when I bought these firearms brand-new!

So, now, I have to ship these and include the receipt for reimbursement for the shipping. I will keep people updated on the quality of service and the eventual replacement.

Pictures of T/C Arms’ Pro Hunter .50 X 209 muzzle loader barrel bore…quite rough.

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Pictures of T/C Arms .22LR Classic cracked stock

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[ArmedBear]

I own a couple of T/C products, both 25 years old. One is a Patriot pistol and the other is a Hawken .50 percussion.

The new Hawken is simply not up to the standards of the one I have, and the price has risen dramatically vs. competing guns. Back then, the T/C "Hawken" was a bit more expensive than the imported knockoff crap from CVA, and a bit less than the Lyman Plains Rifle. No longer.

My Hawken has a semi-fancy walnut stock that's more finely shaped than the one they show in the picture on the website (presumably a good example). They seem to have changed locks, as well, to a flimsier one.

I have not taken the plunge into the Contender world, though I've thought about it for a long time. Maybe if I reload, I will.

Still, it's a well-known fact that God hates in-line muzzleloaders. You're just being punished for your sins against nature.

 

[Geno]

 

[ArmedBear]

I'm intrigued by the Firestorm flintlock in stainless.

But I can't stomach the idea of a plastic stock on the thing, and your pictures discourage me from paying good money for T/C products at this point.

I wonder if S&W will make things better, or worse.

 

[Geno]

That too is basically my point of this post. I wonder how S&W's ownership of T/C Arms will effect service and quality. I may or may not ever purchase future T/C products. That will depend on how they handle these replacements.

By the way, in the letter that I printed for T/C Arms, I have provided the link to this thread so that T/C Arms' repair department can view this very thread and the pictures. Bettter they should know what we at THR think, than not know.

Doc2005

 

[ArmedBear]

T/C was a self-conscious and top-notch niche market player and innovator.

Perhaps they have forgotten that, or have designs on something else. Maybe the boom in in-line muzzleloaders has made them think they're a mass-market player that doesn't have to win over the connoisseurs and enthusiasts.

On the other hand, their new bolt guns are aimed squarely at the more discriminating buyer.

Interesting.

 

[Geno]

I had my eye on that new bolt action rifle. Who knows.

 

[ArmedBear]

Yeah.

Another factor: the in-line muzzleloader market is self-limiting.

The more popular they are, and the higher their ballistic performance, the more likely they are to be disallowed for "primitive season."

It's already happening.

Or the converse will happen: BP-velocity .45-70 single shots will be allowed, too, during primitive season. This too has started, and it, too, is driven by the in-line muzzleloader.

Either way, the in-line muzzleloader market has built-in limits. The more common high-performance muzzleloaders become, the more likely it is that hunters will push for limiting them to open season, or for allowing other single-shot guns as well during primitive season, depending on the hunting pressure in their states. And T/C has trashed their once-solid rep in the "traditional" muzzleloading world by discontinuing nearly all their products.

Maybe they hope that their bolt action really takes the world by storm, since they're the only company in the world offering a decent bolt action deer rifle...

 

[rbonser]

I was just wondering if you could tell if your gun is a pre-S&W Thompson, or a brand new gun made after S&W bought Thompson. I am just wondering because I'm on the verge of buying a Thompson myself.

Sorry my question is so late after your origninal posting, but I only get around to reading this forum every couple weeks or so.
Thank you.

 

[gezzer]

Too bad you missed the factory stock sale at T/CSW. they are only going to make 2 models one in 50 and one run a year of 58. Say goodby to muzzle Loading being the lead product!

 

[Geno]

I'm not certain. I bought it at deer season last year, November. But, I don't recall when S&W bought them out. If you buy one, take a bright flashlight with you so you can check the bore before you purchase it.

 

[Triple S]

Could the rough marks at the end of the barrel come from the "Quick Load" feature that TC proclaims as a benefit? I realize it should be smooth, but since it is unrifled and is for loading practices only, how is the accuracy of your rifle?

 

[Geno]

No, even the rifle is deeply, deeply gouged. I haven't had the chance to thoughly test accuracy. It seems decent, but, the rifling even clogs with plastic from the sabots. They simply have to replace it, because I intend to fire non-sabot ammo more than sabot. I finally got the barrel sent to T/C. we'll see how the repair shop does.

 

[wanderinwalker]

Well, I hope they take care of your problem, and do it quickly! That kind of machining is unacceptable IMO.

My TC ProHunter 209x50 Katahdin (wow, what a mouth full that is! ) has had its barrel back at the TC shop once. The stock front sight was too low, running me out of elevation at the rear peep.

I've also been roundy-round figuring out what it likes to shoot. With loose Pyro or Goex, I can make anything shoot one-holers at 50 yards. Using Triple Seven pellets, so far the only things that will group where I want them are the 240gr XTP in the Mag Express sabot and the 250gr Shockwave with the Superglide sabot. Actually, the 250s + 2 pellets will group into 2.5" at 100 yards. I can live with that in a 100-yard venison maker, especially with a Firesight set on it.

I'm happy enough with mine that I bought a .45-70 barrel identical to the muzzleloader barrel and am considering a .308 and a 4x scope to round it all out.

Let us know how TC responds, though I will note my Katahdin barrel spent 2 months at their shop before being returned to me, and their shop is 3 hours from me.

BTW Doc, was that price for just the rifle or was there a scope included? If that was just the basic 209x50 rifle, it sounds high.

 

[Geno]

Well, I have the Encore Pro Hunter barrel and the .22 Classic stock on their way back to T/C Arms. I hope they take care of business the way the did when Mr. Gustafson (spelling) was Pres. Time will tell.

Doc2005

 

[Geno]

Well, I'm confused. I sent them via UPS. They were to have arrived Friday. Today is Tuesday. I thought for certaiin that by now I would have recieved a phone call or an e-mail. Something!

Doc2005

 

[alsaqr]

My blued steel .50 Encore had a rough bore when i got it. It was very hard to load: It also shot very well. Got out the ramrod, patches and jeweler's rouge and went to work. Coated the patch well with Jeweler's rouge (red) and ran it up and down the bore about 50 times. Repeated that two or three more times with new patches and rouge then cleaned up the bore.

It loads much easier now and is much more accurate than i am. With 90 grains of JSG and a 250 grain SST sabot it will make one inch groups at 100 yards. Killed a hog at 192 long paces with that rifle and load.

BTW many Savage model 110 center fire rifles have rough bores. Never saw one that would not shoot 1.5 inch groups though.

 

[Geno]

This one is too rough, and the roughness goes far down the barrel. But, I get get the pics that deep. It will have to be replaced...of that I am certain.

I still find it odd that they have not yet contacted me. Afterall, it has been there for over 1 week.

 

[arcticap]

They may not contact you at all. For what I understand, they usually just fix it or replace it and then ship it back to you.
There's not much to discuss other than they're willing to do whatever is necessary to make you happy.

 

[O.S.O.K.]

wow

That's pretty bad luck - or as you indicate, may show that TC is slipping.

I hope not.

I have an Omega that I bought about 3 years ago and its a great rifle - very accurate. A great design for "modern" ml hunting and shooting.

I also have two of the Classic .22's - both gifts to my two sons on their 12th birthdays and both are great shooters and no quality issues. The only thing I think they need to improve is the lock-up of the rear sight when set - they do tend to move if bumped. But otherwise the sights are terrific.

My other TC product, an older Renegade is a great product too.

Hope they do you right.

 

[Geno]

Well, I just called TC Arms' Customer Service and spoke with Ms. X. She was very professional, but not able to resolve the problems. Apparently there is about a mandatory 4 week turnaround time at TC Arms. (tongue-in-cheek) They expect mine to be taken care of in 2 more weeks...even though they are simply replacing the barrel?!

Not certain that I had understood her correctly I clarified, with Ms. X, "But they are simply going to ship me a replacement the barrel, and a replacement stock, correct?"

Ms. X: "Yes, probably".

Me: "But, why would it take 4 weeks just to ship out a replacement barrrel and a replacement stock?"

Ms. X: "I don't know."

In closing, I had anticipated purchasing a new Encore pistol this morning or this week. This call and experience is giving me pause...great pause.

 

[Ol' Red]

New guy here.

I just got my Hawken back from TC with a complete new stock, breechplug, and blue job. Took just over 2 weeks turnaround. TC dosen't "do" e-mail, but you will receive a postcard "receipt" in a few days.

Boyd's supplies all TC's stocks since the factory fire and quality is not anywhere near what the "older" Hawken rifles were.

I've only returned three items to Rochester. The first was a 5 digit Contender frame that was replaced with a brand new one. The other was one of the very first .17 HMR that was badly reamed and had the replacement in 8 days.

TC has great customer service when you need it, and the new "ownership" is supposed to actually improve overall quality and service according to the lady I talked with last time I called.

Ol' Red

 

[Oldnamvet]

Doc - you ought to talk to this guy <http://www.bellmtcs.com/>
Mike has been fixing T/C things for years. Some of the things he has run into recently are amazing.

 

[Ol' Red]

Just checked my calendar and it took exactly 2 weeks from the day TC received my Hawken until FedEx "tried" to deliver it to my door. Unfortunately I wasn't at home, so I had to wait 'til July 5.

When I called to say "Thank you" for the great service the lady said it would have been quicker but they had a problem getting my stock from Boyd's.

 

[Geno]

The woman I spoke to had to hunt-down my package, and finally had to take my number and call me back. It almost sounds like they misplaced it and had to gin up some kind of an excuse. I need to contact them again tomorrow and dig a bit deeper.

In light of the fact that I have owned 6 TCs, and had excellent service in the past, I have come to expect more than "I don't know" when I ask for an explanation. I suspected this from TC when it was taken over by S&W, and I haven't seen anything to convince me to the contrary. It seems that the listing of companies that can be relied upon to manufacture excellent quality firearms, and to stand behind them in a timely manner, is shrinking.

Thanks for the info Oldnamvet...I will do so.