Tactical Lights for HD... why?

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

sm, in this case "Tactical" is actually the perfect word to describe it. It's a flashlight one uses as part of home defense tactics.

Yes tactical may be overused, but don't forget that the word does have real meaning and purpose, and that some things described as tactical, really are tactical.

For example,
Tactical Checkbook(they do sell these): worthless checkbook cover made of black nylon sold at outrageous prices as a marketing gimmick.

Tactical mirror: Small mirror on a rod that can be used to see around corners so one does not get killed while doing so themselves. Actually very useful while clearing buildings.

See how one item really is tactical and the other item is not? Don't assume that using tactical for anything means it's marketing junk. Sometimes yes, but sometimes no.

 

[wcwhitey]

I keep a Surefire with my HG always. It can be a quite effective if shined in the eyes of a BG whose eyes have a adjusted to the dark. Takes away his night vision and shows you what you are dealing with. A quality high intensity light is a sound investment. Besides CR123 batteries have a really long shelf life, greater chance the flashlight will work when needed.

 

[basicblur]

1 vote for HD Tactical Light!

When you hit a person with a blinding light, their instinctive reflex is to throw their hands up to try to block the light, which gives you some time to identify and decide shoot/don’t shoot.
I have a lot of Leviton night lights with motion sensors throughout the house. I figure if the BG is in the house, I know the layout and would hunker down in any of a number of dark spots and wait for the motion sensors/night lights to pop on letting me know his (basic?) location. At that point, I can decide to shoot/not shoot from my dark spot or hit him with the TAC light (if required) before deciding to shoot/not shoot.

I think the video below would make a great commercial…kinda gets the point across AFA who has the advantage at night, doesn’t it?
http://www.insightlights.com/videos-shooter-ready.htm

The rest of Insight’s videos-mebbe you’ll pick up some reasons for a light?
http://www.insightlights.com/videos.htm

 

[sm]

taurusowner,
Yes I am aware of "Methods & Means to accomplish a task"
Just some words are used entirely out of context and too many attach "magic talismans" to these words.


My Take:
Never assume a action will result in a given reaction.

Like bright lights.
Bright lights are NOT always the best light for a Serious Situation.
The best plan of action "might be" to evade if trouble shows up,and if all you have is a bright light, then one is more easily tracked and Identified.

Target Identification works both ways.

Critters are a great example.
Critters do not know they are supposed to react to certain calibers and bullet configurations.
Marketing "says" such-n-such caliber and bullet config will do this to a Deer for example.

'Taint necessarily so, as too many folks for too many years have witnessed first hand out deer hunting.

Rabbits are "supposed to" stop dead in their track upon bright light lighting them up...
They do not always react this way.


In a warehouse, folks working upstairs over looking "floor" and Thugs break in.
Cut power in one area and in doing so, immediately a bright, emergency light came on.
First gunshot was at that light.

Folks upstairs, took cover, called Police and went into practiced plans of dealing with all this...

Low powered lights afforded them the ability to move to safe areas and not give away positions to BGs.

To the best of anyone's knowledge, the BGs never knew these folks were upstairs...
They did at first think persons were around when the bright light came on, then realized it was Emergency lighting...

Objective is to survive, and go home at the end of the day.
Situations will dictate whether a light is used at all, and if so if a bright one, or low powered one is best.

Never assume a action, will have a definite reaction.

Related:

Did you know, in some areas of the world where guns are restricted, BGs actually train dogs to attack light sources?
Including laser lights?

Two methods are used-
1. Dogs are trained to attack where a light/laser is shown.
For instance taking a person down , and the dog(s) attack that person as that is where the light/laser is shown.
Shine the light/laser and the dog(s) go after the mark.

2. Dogs are also trained to go after light/laser sources.
My understanding was to go after Police / Authorities using lights and sights with red lighting.
Which also works for gangs that use dogs - as these gangs shine a light on opposing gang [the mark] and the dog goes after the opposing gang shining light /laser.

Now would that just ruin your day to have a serious situation and of all things the Criminals have dogs trained to go after your Surefire , or CT laser grips?

Pretty nifty Strategy and Tactics on the Criminals behalf I say...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Tactical lights, why?

Gee, I dunno. Maybe because the intruder is over there by the door where the lightswitch is.

You know, if an extra few ounces is going to trouble you so much, then don't get one. However, I figure I can survive the burden of so much extra weight well enough that I will keep the tactical lights on my HD guns, even though I may never need them.

Oh weight, I keep my HD guns ready to go as well, even though I may never need them.

 

[PPGMD]

sm,

It's great that you have been able to live without high intensity lighting like Surefire or Streamlight flashlights. But just because you have a couple of specfic cases where it doesn't work, and you haven't needed it doesn't mean it doesn't have its place.

Using lights in a gun fight have been a heated subject, many of the older members of the shooting communities are against it because older lights were pretty much worthless, too heavy for the amount of light they delivered, and relied on batteries that didn't last long enough. To quote a retired Highway Patrol Trooper around here, "All we used our flashlights for was to beat people."

The example you gave where the intruders shot at an emergency light, doesn't show anything, it's a 100 watt bulb set to spread the light, so people can attempt to leave the building after a power outage. Shining a 100 lumen lithium light in someones night adapted eyes will have them reflexively turn away or bring their hands up even if they are expecting it.

Sure there might be cases where it might work to a disadvantage, but people have to know when to use them and when not to. The best way to do that is to take a training class that not only includes static range shooting, but simulated force on force combat in low light.

Anyways I don't understand the aversion to tactical, I agree there are cases where it shouldn't be used but in many cases it's used to include a larger group of items. For example tactical lights are lights that are meant to be used with a gun, they generally are high powered lithium lights, with a lanyard, rear thumb switch, and have a step down body to be used with the syringe method, or they are on gun lights like the Surefire X200, or the Insight series of lights. It's like tactical pants, which simply means hard uses pants with cargo pockets that are designed around what a gun fighter needs to carry. It's much easier to say tactical X and people know what you are talking about then describe an item that most people already know as tactical X.

 

[Geronimo45]

My question's got nothing to do with the weight of the thing, or denying the value of a light... just why they are considered superior to 'ceiling lights', which normally cover a wider area with less bother (no need to worry about strobing and such).

So you're supposed to use short bursts of light, not sweep the room like a spotlight? Seems to me like you'd already need to see the outline of your intruder in that case, and that the light's just there to see the face... while the ceiling lights would show most everything everywhere in the room. Again, that's the notion I get... when you can already identify the outline, I expect that the flashlight would beat the celing lights.
Could be wrong... thanks for the info y'all've already shared.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

My question's got nothing to do with the weight of the thing, or denying the value of a light... just why they are considered superior to 'ceiling lights', which normally cover a wider area with less bother (no need to worry about strobing and such).

So you're supposed to use short bursts of light, not sweep the room like a spotlight? Seems to me like you'd already need to see the outline of your intruder in that case, and that the light's just there to see the face... while the ceiling lights would show most everything everywhere in the room. Again, that's the notion I get... when you can already identify the outline, I expect that the flashlight would beat the celing lights.
Could be wrong... thanks for the info y'all've already shared.
Geronimo45 is online now Report Post

I think there are a couple of advantages. It is on demand light, you initiate it and turn it off at any time from any location, and you can do it with your arms close to your body. You are not fumbling in the dark for a switch by a door. Secondly, it is high intensity light that CAN disorient the target for a second, if you hit him in the eyes.

My tac lights have a lot of spill. You are basically lighting up the room, with a central spot of very high intensity.

 

[Chuck R.]

I often wonder how many of the "no light club" have actually taken some training and made an informed decision afterwards.

Seriously, how many of you guys that are anti-weapon light have received training with one?

Here's my take on this. I believe that in a HD situation target ID is paramount so I'd have a light either hand held or mounted, preferably mounted. There are numerous tragic stories concerning misidentified intruders. My HD guns wear lights, my CCW rig consists of a combination mag and light holder.

I've taken a couple low-light classes for both handguns and long-guns, we also shoot low-light stages at our matches. Using a handheld light takes some initial training and practice to remain good with it. Using a hand held light with a long-gun is a real PITA even with training. A mounted light is much easier to hit with, it is also easier manipulate the weapon, open doors, reload, etc. As a couple guys pointed out, once mounted it's there, it doesn't get left behind.

As for the lights giving away your position argument. Take some training and decide for yourself. Just because the light is available, doesn't mean you have to use it. There are strobe and movement techniques that make a tactical light (greater or equal to 65 lumens) a force multiplier.

With a good light, there is enough "spill" of light to ID targets threats without pointing the weapon directly at the target. I can pretty much make out objects with either my pistol or long-gun at a low ready. I've trained with both the Harries and Surefire/Rogers techniques and with both of those the effect is the same, the light and muzzle are pointing at the same thing, might as well be a mounted light if available.

Like everything else, you'll have to do your own risk/threat assessment. Take a class and make an informed decision. In my area a low-light class by a certified police instructor is pretty reasonable and some of the best training I've taken. Since statistics state that most attacks happen in either low or no light, getting some low light training just makes sense.

Chuck

 

[NIB]

Why??? Heres why!

http://www.wapt.com/news/14962750/detail.html


NATCHEZ, Miss. -- A Natchez man shot and killed his wife when he mistook her for an intruder in their home, according to police.

Police Chief Mike Mullins said Glenn and Deborah Mizell awoke around 4 a.m. Tuesday to the sound of their barking dog. Mullins said Glenn Mizell went to investigate, taking a pistol with him.

Mullins said Glenn Mizell began checking through the house and was unaware his wife had left the bedroom and gone into the kitchen. Mullins said when Mizell saw her figure in the dark, he fired his gun once.

Authorities said he shot Deborah Mizell, 49, once in the chest and died at the scene.

Mullins said a preliminary investigation shows the shooting was an accident.

 

[sm]

I admit having to measure my reply, as I some things I need to keep private for me and for others.

I have nothing against Strategy or Tactics.
I do have a problem with the words Strategy and Tactics being used in the context they are often used.
I have a problem with folks buying skill and targets.

My lessons were/are private lessons.
There were no training schools when I was coming up, except for those "training schools" as pertains to Military or Law Enforcement and other Professionals such as Fire Fighting.

I never served in the Military, while I still have my draft card somewhere, the service men and women were being brought home from Vietnam the year I graduated HS.

Intense lights, I have used in lessons.
Light use, dim light, no light lessons.
I do not own lights as I used, and being honest I do not know if the work "tactical" is part of the name.

I do know one light brand was Inova, I liked it, had one for a short time, still I could not honestly say if "tactical" is part of the name or not.
I know some Body Guards, Fire Fighters, EMTs, Private In House Security and Pilots have and use these...along with others.

I have never used a Surefire.
I did not want to , and was advise to not use one.

Criminals are not all dumb. In travels I am familiar with, and others, Surefires, certain modes of dress, and other things "tip off" and Criminals look for these "tips".
Clips for Pocket knife is one...heck these criminals know more about make and models of tactical knives than I do.

Legitimate Business and how done for a long time.
How raised, and Mentors & Elders shared with me.
We had our own people give lessons.

Now I part of something that really goes way back.
Called us "loose cannons", "got-to-folks", "flexible", and other names.

We did the hard stuff, difficult stuff, and more often in harm's way.
It might mean being a decoy, and this was pretty risky, still what I/we did, so others could safely conduct business

Perceptions.
What I want to be perceived as.
What I want you think.

There are some of this forum that know me, know of this work, and have been involved in this work in a "fashion".

New advances and technologies come to be over the years.
Fine.
Still I am not going to use certain things as I do not want to be perceived as a cop, one that has military experience , or other things.

I have worked with Cops, some UC, and some came to me/us for assistance in Not having "Cop" quirks.
Easy part was not letting them use the same guns, or back up guns as Cops used, or even UC cops used.
Change clothes, not get a haircut or get hair styled a certain way.
Hard part was getting them to lose the Cop/Service attitude.

Hand a UC a gun similar to what Criminals use and sometimes they get an attitude or turn a nose up.
Well, for instance , if you are going into say illegal cock fights to check out folks running dope and fencing goods...
That bunch preferred snub nosed .22 revolvers, and no holsters.

If you owe a gambling debt, getting shot in the knee, and no brass to worry about.
ERs and all would have a person show up that had an accident out hunting , or cleaning his .22.

Err, lights? Yeah AA Mag-lights were "in".
We used another light, instead, one like the criminal element used.
The "perspective" was, we were seedy too...

Lights.
Yeah, I had a 14k yellow gold Penlight.
Wearing a E VVS1 1 ct dia ring set in 18k bezel setting.
Ivory Stocks on my Combat Commander.
Lighting Cuban Cigars with a C Note, I lit with a 18k yellow gold Zippo.

This bunch shot one of my people.
I wanted justice and knowing what I did, I went in with the UC cops.
Lady Cop, dressed like a $5,000 an night "escort".

Perspective, with a tad of baby powder in my nose, I was a player, a fence, and had connections.
Check them out, they did check out.

My lessons were and are what they are.
Yes they go against the grain, and upset folks.

Mentors were those that had BTDT, and I mean out of the USA, and in places where firearms illegal, or restricted, like civilians could not own the calibers Police and Military did. Mentors favored 32ACP, 25 ACP and .22 .

Nobody ever snickered when back home, and Carrying concealed Colt Woodsmans.

Since I was born, kidnapping me would enable those to use me to force others to get things, or access to information to things, or other folks.

Lessons,
Yeah, I believe in them, encourage folks to do so all the time.
I have shared with known trainers, I would have to start below the bottom rung of the ladder as I am the dumbest student they have ever seen.
I would have to be "un-learned" from years going back as kid, doing what I do and how so.

So I stick a cocked and locked 1911 in my waistband, no holster, and criminals are over there, Cops over that a way, Some others that look like wannabes and others I suspect are CCW.

I have a serious something to do, and I blend in, and go past with what I gotta do, and I exit with what I gotta do.

"Hey, would you like to learn to shoot a shotgun?" - some have asked me
"Oh, thanks, but , umm, I thought only Military and Police could have shotguns" - I have replied.

"Would you like to learn to shoot a handgun?"
"I do not have a license to shoot a handgun" I reply
"You don't have to have one...

Lights.
Yeah I know about hitting the lights and folks response.
I've had the Lincoln hit the brights on me doing 80 mph and start shooting at me.
I have in like turn ,in another situation hit reverse, lighting up rear lights and slamming into two cars of BGs to evade a situation.

They had brights on, just they "knew" they had me boxed in and no idiot would ever try to "Demolition Derby" their way out.

This idiot did. How raised
Rules: bent rules that will bend and break rules that will break.
Goal is to survive, and I cheat, play dirty, cuss and I will use any lessons the other folks learn - against them.

Watches that show up in the dark, or illuminate.
Same deal applies to night sights.

I have evaded , as I knew where the BGs were, by their night sights and watches.
I have used a small light that "strobes" to distract as well...

Shooting with lights.
Strobes, Fire, Police, EMTs, Sirens going off, and rope tied to me jerking and tugging - to make me focus on the threat.

Intense lights sorta lose some of the intensity when First Repsonder Lights are flashing...
With Fire and the black smoke..

Criminal element "mentored" me as well.
One tactic is waiting for a mark to light a smoke with a match, as that light messes with night vision.

Another tactic involves book of matches, and how fixed so all the matches ignite.
That much light, will distract a mark and that one, or his team will take you down in that "bright light".

Book of matches run from free to 10 cents. Pretty neat tactic,and one reason I often carry a book of matches.

"Use what those against you will use" - Mentors.
Meaning I was to know my enemy, and learn to use his tools, to better defend against such.

I assure you criminals know all about Tactical Lights...I promise.

My deal was to never be programmed. Hard to explain, while ingraining correct basic fundamentals are important, one was to still not be programmed and predictable.

Criminals know most folks that shoot El Presidente will prefer to turn gun side, instead of the other way.
They read the mark [wrote check with right hand] so they suspect your shooting hand is the right one, holster strong side and one will turn to the right.

They use this against folks.
Hence the reason many of my Mentors, especially UC, were extremely proficient in drawing and shooting weak side.

One mentor, and his pard, were ambushed.
Pard shot , just a shot rang out from the dark...
Mentor pulled his pard back and he was shot, and BGs stepped up to finish them off.

Mentor, falling forward, drew weak side, fired and killed BG 1 and literally bounced off pavement to kill BG 2.

Snub nosed J frame.

I am not against, just I am for folks investigating and verifying for themselves and circles of travels.

I am against those that have schools that need students, and students that need a guru, just to make money and stroke egos.
Some of this stuff will get you dead.

I am against those that require certain guns, ammo, and other equipment, and one has to do stuff their way only.

No.
Dammit No.
It is about student, not about the damn instructors and their money or egos.

It is always about the student. The instructors I respect and would take a class under, are about the student and what is best for that student.

Heck, I have suggested and some have attended a trainer and the best that student could do was a Used Police Trade-In Model 10.
Student was up front with trainer, what me and mine had assisted them with and...
"Fine, this gun will work, and we will loan you different light for you to see what works for you, and your budget"

Lady and these folks messed with a $10 intense light before that class was over, and that is what she used, until newer lights came out.

This instructor is sincere about students, and it is all about the student.
He is not the only one.

-
Q Beam.
Hi intensity flood light that works off a cigartette lighter or batter in a fishing boat.
Leave one on and lens down, it will burn a hole in your front seat.

One of my people had one in the front seat for a non-lethal defense weapon, idea was against car-jackers.

So he is out of state , detoured due to construction and in a not nice area, and at a stop light...more construction and these thugs are going car jack him.

He shines that bright light , out the driver's window and lights them up! I mean within "that close".
They shot him just the same, he had the good "lessons" to get distance and while he was going the wrong way down a one way, he got distance and survived.

They did not stop with that bright light on them! - he shared.

Lessons learned: Folks are not always going to do what one thinks the reaction is going to be.

Do not assume a bright light is going to distract, anymore than pepper spray will, or a make, model and caliber of gun with certain ammo will.

Life is Life and has its own plans for each person's journey as they travel through life.
















Blend in.

 

[SageMonkey]

I recently bought a little 210 lumen led light from Fenix. It has a strobe mode. If you have been in the dark for a bit (or even a moderately lit area) and are hit with 210 lumens of strobing madness you will be immediately and significantly disoriented. Its actually makes you feel a bit sick and you become unsure of balance, movement, etc. It tends to induce fear even if you are doing it to yourself.

Obviously that offers the flashlight holder an advantage. However, if I turn on my house lights, I have given up an advantage because now the intruder can see his way around a space I don't need to see to get around.

 

[bkjeffrey]

"Get that effin' light outta my face!" I guarantee we all have said that once in our lives. Why? Because no matter what your doing inside or outside, day or night, a light in the face causes serious distraction. It also causes temporary blindness. I believe that if a bad guy was in my home or my yard and I shine my M6 at him, I instantly become the decision maker in the scenario. Who ever said " turn the bathroom light off so I can see what Im doing"? Thats my 2

 

[bkjeffrey]

Oh, and Positive I.D. Duh.

 

[conw]

My perspective; various thoughts:

a) Obviously for ID/sighting/aiming purposes, it is grossly inconvenient to use conventional light switched
b) It's an option. Yeah, maybe an intruder cuts the power, or maybe whatever, but it's an option. Heck, I keep my light by the side of the bed, makes it a lot easier to pop out of bed without fumbling with the light, etc.
c) If you are training for non-HD scenarios, it helps to have the same tools in an HD scenario, no?
d) Lights are a bit over-hyped for their "stunning" effect IMO. Again, it's an option, but I have a very bright (by pocket light standards) flashlight, 180 lumens, and can't see it being a first defense for me. Too many variables, and it just seems like flashlight companies overhype their products; to be expected, I supposed.

 

[conw]

e) Something like the SF M6 with 500 lumens would likely be sufficient for a really blinding effect. However, it isn't worth $400 to me.

 

[conw]

Sagemonkey:

It tends to induce fear even if you are doing it to yourself.

(Speaking of the strobe effect)...I disagree for the most part. My light has the same thing, and I just don't see it being terribly effective at the right time. I like that my light has it, but it isn't going to be a primary option. Cool, yeah, but against an armed intruder that 1/3 second to aim and turn it on is too valuable.

 

[Robert Hairless]

This discussion has been far ranging and, perhaps, has wandered down several side streets. Which is why I'm not reluctant to offer a few additional comments.

First, and in general, it doesn't matter to me whether something is called "tactical." I won't get caught up in anyone else's language unless I can profit by doing so.

Second, I don't think it's wise to consider the beam from any handheld flashlight as a stun gun or other weapon. If it happens to blind or disorient an opponent for a moment that's a fringe benefit but any flashlight for me is primarily illumination.

Steve's point is good: a Maglite provides good general illumination and some additional focused penetration, and if a Maglite works well enough for you it's good enough. I used to carry a Maglite and still have a couple around the house for when the power goes off. Nothing wrong with them.

But consider that there's a kind of evolutionary process here with roughly four generations so far. Ordinary flashlights are good. Maglites provide more possibilities. These so-called "tactical lights" provide still more possibilities. The next generation--LED "tactical lights"--provide still more. I don't focus on one generation or another but use what I need for the possibilities I want.

For most purposes, though, I've transitioned to what are being called "tactical" lights here. They pack more power into smaller sizes than other flashlights, which makes them easier for me to carry to get even better general illumination with even more focused penetration. The LED flashlights also have better battery life and their lamps are longerlasting and more durable. When I've dropped or banged flashlights with filament bulbs, sometimes the bulb blows. That's embarrassing and inconvenient.

I like the "tactical lights" because they let me keep more distance from the dark unknown while looking into it than an ordinary flashlight or a Maglite. Think of the key difference among a handgun, shotgun, and rifle: increased useful distance.

My goal is always to stay out of and away from trouble. I'm not an engager. I'm a disengager. If I can see the trouble away over there while I'm away over here, I stand a better chance of getting far, far away than if I were closer to the trouble.

So the "tactical" light for me is primarily a tool to spot trouble at an increased distance, which gives me a better chance of moving away from it.

What I carry everyday everywhere is a SureFire L1 Digital LumaMax. It has two lighting modes selectible by the pressure switch on the end. The low power mode lets me navigate dark hallways and rooms: it's a pathfinder. The high power mode lets me see further away. I also have a little bright LED flashlight on my keyring, mostly in case I need to spot something I've dropped in my car. Many times I'll also have a small SureFire, and if I'm out and about I might even have a SureFire L4. These things all fit into and/or clipped to my pockets and I don't even notice them until I need them. It's remarkable how often I use the L1 every day. It's in my pocket right now.

Although SureFires are awfully expensive, I've found them to be reliable and that makes them good for me. I also have a couple of StreamLights--including a Strion rechargeable--that work well for other applications. A while back I bought a bunch of inexpensive handheld lights to distribute around the house, my range bag, and other places where I might need a light when it's dark. From time to time I've dropped something important on the range. It's nice to give a good light to some kind soul who offers to help find it. I've also been next to people who dropped things and couldn't find them. It's nice to lend a hand and a good flashlight to help find what's lost.

I usually go for increased options--what I've been calling possibilities-- instead of restricting myself. Most times I don't need those options. When I do need them, I want them available. Other people approach life differently. That's okay with me. All I can manage is me.

 

[sm]

Robert,
Again a great post from you, thanks.

I often think out of the box for other reasons.
Personal reasons, and "my role" in this journey we call life.

Not everyone is young, agile, whole of body, and financially comfortable.

One can in the blink of an eye go from young, strong, stropping physically fit, with money and finances to fall back on to being financially strapped, physically limited and having to think out of the box just to survive day to day.

All it takes is a car wreck, house fire, tornado, or other disaster.

My role started early in life with Veterans of previous conflicts.
Amputees, blindness, burns, scars and other physical limits.

These folks (Vets)were passing forward to Widows and Kids. I am speaking of these Folks assisting with those whom had lost husbands, fiance's and boyfriends in Korea and Vietnam.

These widows and kids were getting out of selves to assist Battered Women, Abuse kids, and the like.

Life is Life.
In the blink of an eye a tornado destroys everything a young lady and kid has.
Husband did not make it back from 'Nam, or if did, not whole.

Everything is gone! What money that is earned is run thin, and dealing with the benefits, insurance and all is frustrating and frustration does not buy clothes, food or anything else.

Strategy & Tactics - going w-a-y back - how I was raised and what was done.

WE had set back simple tools for emergencies. No 911 back in the day, and we had always mangaged without the Gov't meddling and telling what we had to do.

Single Shot Shotguns, .22 rifles, .38spls, Flashlights, Oil Lamps, Candles....

So we gave these folks guns, light and other tools to stay safe.
It might be temporary like during a tornado, or permanent as we got the lady and kid to a safe place - and the male person had stolen all the guns and lights and anything else they had for drugs, or booze.


Some folks would really like to have nicer, newer tools.
i.e.
Tornado took its toll, including the husband/dad.

The Reality is, that lady with that kid, that has a Used Police Trade In Model 10, a Used 1100 in 20 ga, and 3 Cell Maglight, AA maglight, and Inova key ring is well Armed and Equipped to defend herself, her kid, her home.

Husband had a Surefire, and other tools, just where in the heck they ended up, is anyone's guess.
She really misses her guns, still again, where are these?

First gun she bought, was the used Model 10 snubby, she knows this gun and she wanted a gun right now, for on person.
We gave her the Maglights.
Ammo to continue quality practice, only cost what it cost to reload it...maybe, we did not break even often times as we gave ammo away to her and others too.

As time goes on, some money gets to where put back, and "disposable" she up grades / adds a 1100 in 20 ga.
Someone had to have a tactical gun for 3 gun and she had cash. It worked out.

This is my role.
I...have to.
I promised myself and mentors too many damn years ago.

Where I used to assist and before it closed. We had a deal going.
To keep it - Give it away

It was passed to you, and if and when one can pass forward to another - do so.
Folks would get ahead, upgrade and leave old holsters, Mag-Lights, and whatever.

Many that could not pass on this way, well if the elderly lady wants to fix sandwiches, and go through that box sorting, cleaning up, making sure stuff works, - she is passing forward in her way.

"Need a light for this gal..."
"These two are checked and ready to go, new batteries"

These folks cannot afford a training school, nor some of the equipment.
What they do is set up situations and work it out, and quality practice.
Professionals step in and share.
So a Cop might set aside his/her issued gun and light, sit in that wheelchair and "well, let us work through this".

Serious, I always learn from those I assist.
How to go about and deal with matters have been shared by others - that I have learned, and these lessons transition to upgrades in tools.


You folks that have some old tech lights no longer in use as you have upgraded...
How about donating these to someone that could really a light and going through a tough time?

To keep it - give it away.

 

[Rshooter]

I have always believed that light at night announces your presence. Recently lights have become big players in the military but this is in combined arms. Many people forget that a Solider or Marine or Cop is not alone out there, he is part of a team. If I turn a light on and I am out-numbered I have just set myself up to be outflanked. I never know if it is one or two bad guys. Never forget take for granted that there is only one! You may take that assumption to you grave.

That said I agree that new and expensive is not always the best. For years in the Marines we were proud that we could do more with less. It is a most unfortunate fact that once again we are learning a third world guerrilla force can grind a first world army to a standstill.

Be safe and always try to identify all targets before you flip the switch.

 

[Robert Hairless]

Steve, similar experiences, although of course not exactly the same and almost certainly not as extensive. You perceive my respect for you and the seriousness with which I approach you.

Absolutely right, in my opinion. One does what one can with what one has. When there are no options the decisions are much easier, and when the issue is survival there are few questions and no acceptable alternatives. Neither you nor I would shrug off someone who doesn't or can't have optimal equipment, and I know we agree that equipment isn't what counts.

But lesser mortals, like me, want options and possibilities if we can have them. If or when we can't, that's a different story. By the way, I like it when you imply that I'm "young, agile, whole of body, and financially comfortable."

Rshooter, light at night does announce your presence. The dynamics of a home defense or self defense situation are different from those faced by the military or law enforcement. As I've tried to suggest, avoidance and retreat when possible are the wisest courses for a civilian.

 

[sm]

Robert,
You have my respect, and again posted why you have earned my respect.

I will share, while I do not know a lot, about so much, I do know THR has a number of folks that have "limitations" as they have sought me and some other members out to communicate with.

Yes. These folks know about Lights, training, equipment, and so much of what we share, and do around here.

Life is Life, and Life changes and one changes as they travel this journey called Life.

Society has more older members, this Aging Society is reflected in the age polls that are posted on THR and other forums from time to time.

Quite a few folks have contacted me and others about how age, time and just the simple fact they cannot do as they once did.

Going from memory, the human body is not fully developed until age 16-18, it differs, and girls seem to fully develop before boys.

Human body is at its "peak" until age 34-36 , again it varies and women and gents differ, with the ladies again having the edge.

After age 34-36 the human body starts going downhill.
Eyes, digestion, skin tone, muscle tone, hearing, smell, taste buds, memory...everything is going downhill as time goes on.

Genes play a huge part in all this...
Add injury, sickness , disease, accidents...
Still I am sharing the "normal human body life cycle" if you will.

Reality is - we are all dying.
We start this dying process right after we draw out first breath.

Unless one is First Responder, one is not going to run toward trouble.
Normal is to prevent, take prudent steps to know and be aware of dangers, have tools and skill sets to deal with danger, to lessen danger, and to evade danger.

Fire for example.

One does everything "right" at the stove and still baking soda comes into play to put out that grease fire.
This might be used to gain access to the small kitchen Fire Extinguisher, then maybe the Bigger home one, until the FD shows up with their Tools.

My point is, some folks a bit older, with some limitations, do not feel a part of THR as they do not have , Tactical Baking Soda, Tactical Fire Extinguishers.

"What about us older folks with age, disease, missing limbs, blind in one eye, born without a left hand...can we still be a part of THR with our Arm & Hammer or Generic Baking Soda?
What about the small white kitchen fire extinguisher I can use with my hands I bought for $9 at the hardware store?

Same damn FE for $9 is sold for more money with some stickers and logos and recommendations re-packaged elsewhere??!! *what gives*

Again,
If one has older lights to donate, do so as you upgrade.

Better yet, put your money where you mouth is, and get Grandma, Grandpa and even that sweet little old widow down the road a nice Surefire and share with them how to use it, extra batteries and know, these folks have Light to assist them for whatever emergency that may befall them.

While we share Personal Responsibility around here - this is not just for "you, you, you".

Walk the walk.
If you can afford to get sister a Surefire attending College, great!
That Aunt and Uncle will appreciate one too!
(some examples)
Nobody says one cannot pass forward a Surefire. I assure you this does not take away/ diminish your Personal Responsibility position.

Heck, I want another Inova like I had for me, I honest to goodness could use one.
No, I am stupid or something, I was offered one, reached for it, and...
Lady I know, sorta kinda related to me got this light instead.

This lady and her husband have known me all my life.
Her husband is a few years older, and work related accident took its toll.
Then disease hit him...

She, fell and busted her hip, recovered, finally. One son is near, and that is one hour away. He does what he can as often as he can. He was in car wreck some months ago.

Lady, missed a step and went down. She did not injure her hip.
Still in a bad way.
She is scared to death to leave her husband and go to the doctor.
Home nurse was on vacation and - she was not comfy with temporary until checked out.

My mom was in the hospital, and I was busy with my schedule.
This couple has a hard time asking for help, it hurt her to ask me for help.
I was up for over a day with mom and her deal, my college studies and everything else.

Damn women cried, her husband too. Just a stupid $19 Inova LED and these two are overwhelmed.
I fixed them supper, and left her a gun to go out and shoot and check hers out.
Cleaned it, fresh ammo and ...

I am giving lessons on that light. She hurt her arm, cannot use the long gun, still she has that light!

Son was shown this new light and such a big deal was made he got another one and his dad snagged it. I refused to take mine back.

He (dad) was having a good day and wanted to speak to me when she (his wife )called ...
"I like this new fangled light, I can lit up that big old brownie I want ma to bring me".

I wanted to cry, but had to laugh at this fella I have known forever.
Tactical brownie piece picker-outer . - he called it.

Who says the old fogies ain't got a sense of humor *grin*

They have a two man team deal with the lights and guns, if he up to it, he shines, she shoots.
For one type of situation...

Works for me...

 

[conw]

Thought I'd post a link or two.

http://www.instructables.com/id/$100-Super-Bright-Flashlight-for-under-$10!/
^
Great instructions on how to make a "tactical light" out of a $5 Ray-O-Vac light

http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a-$200-"tactical"-flashlight-for-about-$15/
Similar

http://lights.lightrefineries.org/?page_id=9
^
"ROP" or roar of the pelican...just to make everyone who spent a bunch of cash on a 500 lumen surefire SICK. For under $100 you can make a maglite spit 1150 lumens!