Tactical reload -yea or nay

[Mosin77]

I have often, often read of the great necessity for “drop free” magazines, and with this, the idea that it’s necessary to carry magazines for quick reloads, and that it’s necessary to practice these techniques so one can quickly reload one’s pistol in a combat situation.

As a civilian, I’ve long been more than a bit skeptical.

1. If you’re not in the military or police, your gun serves more to buy you time than it does to administer justice, so the odds you’ll be in a protracted engagement (vs, say, firing some shots and then running) are less.

2. If your situation can’t be resolved with the ammo on hand in your (presumably full) magazine, are more shots really going to help? You can of course argue that the 6+1 in your LCP can hardly be expected to settle all possible threats…. But most people who believe in tactical reloads don’t really apply this to their deep concealment hold out gun, but to their G19 or other more substantial pistol, thus still begging the question. If you can’t do it in 15+1…… or maybe 15+1 + 6+1…..

3. If you are in the military, or are a civilian practicing for military style scenarios (civil unrest, defense of land and liberty, etc) it makes a lot more sense to practice tactical reloads with the weapon you will actually be using: your rifle. I think most of those with military experience would probably say that if you have to reload your sidearm, a secondary, emergency weapon, in combat in a hurry, you’re probably in deep kimchi.

4. I can, however, see one very clear reason for tactical pistol reloads: LEO/police officers, who might reasonably expect to engage in gunfights with criminals, and be armed only with their duty sidearm.

The problem is, for a civilian, drop-free mags are kind of a pain when reloading at the range because they risk damage to the most sensitive component of the firearm -the magazine, with its relatively delicate feed lips, follower, spring, etc. Civilians have to buy new ones from their own pocket and can’t necessarily put another hundred rounds through those mags that just hit the dirt, to make sure their tumble to earth didn’t impede reliability.

Easily pressed mag releases also seem great in the context of the tactical reload at the range, but aren’t so great for the civilian carrier, who depends on his mag to actually be in the gun when he needs it. They have an annoying habit of getting pressed, and then the magazine either departs the gun and might get lost completely, or is at least dislodged, rendering the gun potentially inoperable at a critical moment.


What say you? Do you practice tactical reloads? Think they’re a bit overrated?

 

[WrongHanded]

I have understood "Tactical Reload" to mean removing and replacing a partially fully magazine, with a full one, whilst retaining the partially full magazine. But that aside....

Training to reload is good for a few reasons:

1. Your gun may not hold enough ammunition to get the job done. Being able to quickly add more because you've trained to do so, is good.
2. If your gun jams or somehow fails to feed correctly, removing the magazine is the easiest way to resolve the issue. But retaining that magazine whilst unjamming the gun is easier said than done, so a spare that you've trained to use is good.
3. If you find yourself behind cover and your attacker is still firing at you, more ammo in your gun is good, even if it's not yet empty.

Magazine releases don't easily get pushed when they are covered by a well designed holster. So that's not much of a factor for many people. And if a certain magazine release seems to protrude too much and is creating trouble, it can either be replaced by one of a lower profile, or modified to the same effect.

Magazines getting dropped on the floor at the range is why people who practice reloading usually have dedicated range magazines specifically to take such abuse. I do. And they are marked in an identifiable way specifically so they do not make their way into carry.

I understand you think a civilian won't get into a protracted firefight. But a fight won't be what you want it to be, or what you imagine it will be. It'll be it's own thing. Expecting that a confrontation will be short because you don't have a uniform and a badge, won't make it short. But not having enough ammunition and not being able to reload quickly might make it a short confrontation.

Carry what you like, but realize the limitations of your equipment and of your abilities with it. Whatever those limitations may be.

 

[herrwalther]

A good practice for static (non running) tactical reloads is to place some foam or even a blanket on the ground where the magazine will drop. This helps prevent damage to the magazine while training. I practice tactical reloads on an EMPTY gun while dropping magazines on the bed, couch or something of that nature. On gun courses, there is no good way to do this. Keep track of the mags so you know when they start to fail.

 

[Mark_Mark]

tactical reload… I prefer the NEw York Reload!

X4

 

[trackskippy]

I really dont see a difference between military, police, and civilian when it comes to this. If you need your gun, you need to be able to shoot it and work it, and the reload is just part of working it properly.

The police and military at least get some basic training here, and the police probably more than the military.

The problem with civilians is, whether or not they've bothered to actually take the time and effort to learn to do that. From what you often hear, I dont think that's the case. Just having the gun seems to be the only requirement.

If all you do is basic target shooting occasionally at the range or out in the yard, this really isn't a big deal, although you should know how to at least work the gun you have reasonably well.

If you're carrying that gun, you should at the very least have the basics of working through things like reloads and stoppages, and be able to do that without thinking about doing it. Being able to shoot the gun, especially under stress, goes without saying.

And you should be practicing all that on a regular basis, so you can keep up.

 

[starling]

I carry spare magazines when my kids are with me because the whole...escape and evasion stuff gets complicated with infants. A lot of the tactical training pushes offensive gunfighter tactics more than anything. When people ask me about what I recommend for self defense I tell them to start with Keto, light exercise, and maybe some new athletic shoes. 99% of the time a fork is more of a threat to any threat your average civilian will encounter. Maybe pick up a hobby that help you to learn focus while under preasure. The stuff will improve your chances in an encounter but also crossover to all aspects of life.

If someone has all that down.... I dont really have a problem with mag drops. Put an old piece of padding down so you dont bang up your magazines too much. Keep them clean. Best to get steel baseplates or thick aluminum. All the spontaneous mag disassembly I have encounters is from polymer base plates. Some are batter than others. Those mecgar drop protection bases are pretty indestructable for poly bottoms.

The second a baddy pulls out a rifle you are outgunned so its best to get the hell out of there before trying to play Action Man and eliminating all threats with a CCW because some idiot put something in your ear. Anyone who has ever been shot at and is honest will tell you the same thing. you seem like a thinker though so I am sure you see it. Getting pinned down by some sort of mass shooter (with body Armor) is a whole different scenario. Everything goes out the window then. At that point you may need to take distance shots from behind cover and no aiming (where lasers come in handy) . Movie theaters come to mind.

Somebody jumps you in a parking lot.... you are pretty much screwed. Maybe curl up in a ball and grab a gun off your ankle before they shank you. Most crimnals are lazy and stupid by nature though. Goes with the territory. Desperate folks will typically beg before they assault you. There are some rabid dogs out there but they usually dont last very long on the street. Females are in danger more than anything else. Walking around staring at your phone in public is like putting a bullseye on your back for a determined perp.

 

[CajunBass]

This is one of those things I think about too. I have two basic "carry guns" now. One is a 15+1, the other is an 8+1. I carry a spare magazine for both, in spite of the fact that one carries just as much ammo in the magazine in the gun, as the other does in one plus a spare. Back when I carried a J-frame...same thing. One reload.

I tell myself (and my wife) it's because the quickest way to clear a malfunction is to simply do a mag swap, but I suspect it's mostly just a habit. And a habit that's so ingraned I'd feel like I was only wearing one shoe if I didn't do it. Leaving it at home just isn't really an option.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I always carry a spare mag, not for tactical reload but for jams, the mag is the most finicky thing.

does anybody else ever carry 2 guns? I sometimes carry a pocket and a iwb

 

[entropy]

Dry fire practice first. Lock the slide back, drop the mag (Your nice soft carpet should suffice for dropping them on.) Start slow. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Range mags. (OEM mags are what I use-some offer the opportunity to practice malfunction drills also) You may have developed the ability to swap mags like John Wick in front of the mirror at home, but with your first time drilling on reloads with live ammo, slow it down a bit, then work back up. It is a perishable skill, I work on dry fire reloads in the winter to keep up, and I'm really not all that fast. I just want to be able to do it subconsciously when needed, and you get there the same way you get to Carnegie Hall.

 

[starling]

I always carry a spare mag, not for tactical reload but for jams, the mag is the most finicky thing.

does anybody else ever carry 2 guns? I sometimes carry a pocket and a iwb

shhhhhh! You are not supposed to tell people that. Secondary pistols are secrets. My secondary typically always run off the same mag as my primary so it makes things easier. I dont jog with two pistols though. Have to draw the line somewhere.

As for extra mags... I make my own shoulder rigs. They have to balance out to be movement stable without tie downs. Typically a poly wondernine needs three magazines to balance a loaded medium size pistol. So the pistol rests on one side and three spare mags on the other. This does away with all the balance issues if you are active. Its more for comfort than anything else. I dont like tie downs if I can avoid it.

 

[trackskippy]

I always carry a spare mag, not for tactical reload but for jams, the mag is the most finicky thing.

does anybody else ever carry 2 guns? I sometimes carry a pocket and a iwb

If you carry an auto, you should have a spare mag for that very reason, if nothing else. But..., always a but, you still need to be able to do the other reloads if and when necessary. This is all just part of knowing how to work the gun you use.

I carried a second gun on a pretty regular basis over the years, and still do today, now on a daily basis, but not the same gun and not for the same reason.

These days, its a "noisy cricket", mostly for my wife, since she doesn't seem to want to carry hers anymore. On the odd chance something stupid goes on, I can give it to her, and listen to her bitch. And a second gun isn't a bad thing anyway.

Now, when we go visit friends and relatives who still live down near the city, that changes back to she brings her own, and I add the 26 back into the mix.

 

[Mark_Mark]

If you carry an auto, you should have a spare mag for that very reason, if nothing else. But..., always a but, you still need to be able to do the other reloads if and when necessary. This is all just part of knowing how to work the gun you use.

I carried a second gun on a pretty regular basis over the years, and still do today, now on a daily basis, but not the same gun and not for the same reason.

These days, its a "noisy cricket", mostly for my wife, since she doesn't seem to want to carry hers anymore. On the odd chance something stupid goes on, I can give it to her, and listen to her bitch. And a second gun isn't a bad thing anyway.

Now, when we go visit friends and relatives who still live down near the city, that changes back to she brings her own, and I add the 26 back into the mix.

I live in the city of Seattle, I carry when I take out the trash. It’s not that bad here but violence is very random here. And, I’m not paranoid at all, when I vacation to the nice parts of florida, I don’t carry. But in Seattle, extra Mag or extra gun. And sometimes keep a AR kit locked in the Prius

 

[Mark_Mark]

shhhhhh! You are not supposed to tell people that. Secondary pistols are secrets. My secondary typically always run off the same mag as my primary so it makes things easier. I dont jog with two pistols though. Have to draw the line somewhere.

As for extra mags... I make my own shoulder rigs. They have to balance out to be movement stable without tie downs. Typically a poly wondernine needs three magazines to balance a loaded medium size pistol. So the pistol rests on one side and three spare mags on the other. This does away with all the balance issues if you are active. Its more for comfort than anything else. I dont like tie downs if I can avoid it.

I wear a very stiff and lightweight Velcro belt. it holds everything up!

 

[JR24]

As noted, I’ve always understood a “tactical reload” as swapping a partial mag for a full one when you have a moment, retaining the partial mag for possible later use. OP seems to be worrying about reloads in general or a speed reload from slide lock.

Im with what seems like most here in that I always carry a reload. I do for two primary reasons, 1) the magazine is typically the main point of failure in an auto loader and 2) my quasi OCD means I don’t feel comfortable with a gun on one side of my belt and nothing on the other.

Practicing reloading, and at speed, is just another part of training for me, it’s not a huge part but I can get a smooth and quick reload from slide lock in case I need it, and I think that’s a good idea to at least be competent with a skill I might need, even if statistically I’m very unlikely to need to do so (but, hey, needing a gun at all, let alone firing it is very statistically unlikely yet I still carry and train). I have range mags for practice live fire, and a nice padded area of floor for practice dry fire reloads.

I’ve never had any issues with mags dropping out of a carry gun when I use a quality holster, so that’s not ever been a consideration for me.

As for the philosophy of “I won’t need it or I’ll be dead anyway” in regards to whether to carry a spare mag. I guess it’s a “I’d rather have it and not need it over needing it and not having it” type of deal for me, especially when a spare mag takes so much less effort compared to the gun itself. Single stack mags fit in a pocket so easily, and double stacks often so too if a simple carrier is too much effort (I love KyTex carriers, minimal and easy on/off. Yes they break after a few years of use but they are pretty cheap)

 

[1942bull]

My routine is to carry 15+1 in my Ruger Security 9 Compact except when deep concealment is required (not often for me). When necessary I carry 10+1. However, regardless of the pistol load I carry an extra 15 round magazine. So I have either 31 rounds or 26 rounds. I do not ever expect having to use 26 or 31 rounds in a civilian encounter with another person or even two persons. The probability of ever needing to use my EDC is very low. But there are situations in which I can see needing that kind of ammo load.

I used to EDC my Ruger LC9S with its 7+1 capacity with a spare 7 round magazine. It seemed to me that 15 rounds was more than enough. However, I slowly changed my mind in light of mass shootings by active shooters and the horrible riots situations of the past couple years. Some people are bringing guns to those incidents. The chances of an armed encounter between sides is real. Now I try to avoid getting near protests, riots, or othe civil disobedience. My first rule of self defense is avoid danger. But sometimes you cannot, especially I’d you happen to be where 2 gangs decide to shoot it out.

If I found myself in any situation like those states above, my objective would be to get out of it as quickly as I can. But what if I become a target. Well, I am still going to try to evade harm. That is when I could need more ammo because my training in the Corps was whether advancing or retreating it is best to move from cover to cover. I would not shoot while running because it slows one down. Instead I would rely upon what we called shoot and scoot. Shoot a couple round at the adversary and run to cover. Do that over and over again until you get to a safer place. For those who have been shot at you know that being shot at concentrates the mind. That is also tru for anyone you might shoot at. A couple seconds caution exercised by your opponent cab be all you need to make the dash to the next cover. So now I generally have 30+1 capacity on the street.

 

[Jim Watson]

You just can't argue against a capability to reload, but...
A Tactical Reload as defined by IDPA is a whole 'nother skill, and hard enough to remember and perform under match stress, never mind a gunfight. Even IDPA does not require them any more.

 

[GEM]

I never tried the tac reload in IDPA but went for a reload with retention. As far as practicing reloads and having an extra mag - of course you do that. I'm not going into the limited capacity carry mantra because of the 'odds' again. You do what you want.

 

[Hartkopf]

I’m a spare parts kind of guy. It’s engrained in me from my drag racing days and going to races 200 miles away. I carried most of my tools and a ton of spare valvetrain, electrical and drivetrain parts. The difference between winning and losing could easily be a $20 pushrod or a $5 toggle switch. Driving 200 miles for nothing because I didn’t bring spare parts....... I would kick myself for months!


Anyway, that mindset has carried over to my self defense preparation. I almost always carry a BUG and a spare magazine is usually somewhere near. I practice reloads and transitioning to the BUG fairly often but I believe there are much more important drills to work on. A quick draw and getting the first shot on target - while moving, is what I believe we should spend 90% of our time on.

 

[3Crows]

I put my hand under the butt and let the mag drop into it when practicing. And thank God I have never had to use my gun or do a mag change under fire. And I hope to say that until I pass from natural causes. I prefer a tactical retreat to a tactical mag change.

 

[C-grunt]

From my experience citizen defensive shootings rarely require a bunch of rounds. But the guys that were involved in them couldn't stop the fight by quoting statistics. Ive had a few students/coworkers who have been in longer gunfights where dozens of rounds are fired. Many times those are initiated by ambushes. Even for cops it's uncommon, but we'll have one every couple years or so.

Now that doesnt mean Im the person that carries the biggest gun and most ammo I can all the time. I take a risk assessment of where Im going.

I have intersections in my beat area that have more violent crime than the entire city I live in. I know criminals can travel and there is a possibility of running into one everywhere. But, while there is a possibility that a violent criminal has driven to my local store, there is a certainty that one or more of them are at those intersections Im talking about.

 

[mcb]

As defined by IDPA and others a Tactical Reload is a Reload with Retention. This is a reload were you remove a partial magazine from the gun replacing it with a full magazine while retaining the partial magazine for use later. I have never seen an example of a real life situation were a reload with retention was useful. Even IDPA has drop the requirement to use it. It is still allowed but cannot be required by a stage anymore.

An emergency reload or reload from slide lock is common in IDPA and is the most likely real life reload to happen in a self defense situation. The gun is fired until empty with the slide locking back on the last round fired. A fresh magazine is inserted and the slide released, through use of the slide lock or manipulation of the slide directly.

Having shot USPSA a lot over the years I do my best to never do either of these reloads. A speed reload where you reload while there is still a round in the chamber (an possible still rounds in the magazine) letting the magazine in the gun fall free is the fastest reload is possible as there is no need to manipulate the slide or retain the first magazine.

Magazine are a consumable part of any firearms. They can and will get damaged and worn out. If you shoot a lot you can expect to have to replace/repair magazines on occasions. I have drop my magazines thousands of times onto dirt, mud, rock and even concrete. They even occasionally get stomp on by myself or an RO/scorer by accident. In all that time of only broken two or three base pads and have never damaged a magazine body to the extent it was not repairable. That said one of these days I will no doubt destroy a magazine. I have destroyed a few moonclips in competition.

The idea of a magazine that does not drop free from one of my handguns I use for competition or CCW is not something I would accept. Reloads are something I practice and expect to use if needed, I always carry at least one reload.

-rambling

 

[GEM]

If you drop a mag in a class or match and it breaks, replace it. I have enough mags that I won't be handicapped. As an aside, on a indoor match with a smooth concrete floor - a USPSA participant, dropped his. Then he tried the usual USPSA lets run to the next position, stepped on his mag, slid and fell. Oops.

Now one thing from USPSA is that folks plan their reloads to save time. This obviously won't happen in life. I tend to shoot till empty and not play that. Of course, I'm not in to win but just to keep skills up. I will sometimes throw in an extra shot to get a slide lock reload before moving on. Everyone's goals can vary as to what you want out of practice.

The folks who quote the average don't understand statistics and distributions. There is more than the average. The average is that you don't need ammo.

 

[FL-NC]

have understood "Tactical Reload" to mean removing and replacing a partially fully magazine, with a full one, whilst retaining the partially full magazine. But that aside....

This is 100% correct.
What the OP is questioning is the "slide lock reload". I practice both, and I have never had a magazine damaged by dropping it on the ground empty. If this is a concern, I guess you could bring a couple of old floor mats from a car (or pull the mats out of the car you drove to the range) to prevent magazine damage. I suppose if you NEVER carry a spare magazine for your pistol, and are CERTAIN that you will NEVER do so for any reason in the future, then there is no point in EVER practicing any type of reload.
Arguing (or self justifying) the amount of rounds in your carry handgun, or carrying a spare magazine, practicing reloads, or not doing these things- based on statistics or the scenaio9s) you think MAY happen- are all personal choices that hopefully no one will ever have to reflect on as worthwhile or not after getting into a gunfight. In the end, you make your own decisions, and hopefully they work out. These same decisions result in many people deciding not to own or carry a gun at all. What I do believe is that it is impossible to be "overtrained" in something as serious as gunfight survival.
As far as the police and how they train, what they carry, etc.- remember that they are almost always RESPONDING to a situation that local citizenry (as in, most of US) are already involved in.

 

[Jack Ryan]

What say you?

Do you practice tactical reloads?

Think they’re a bit overrated?

You could always practice a few times in the morning before you need it.

Yes, I practice it.

Depends on who is doing the "rating" I suppose. I PRACTICE making reloads on the range and under stress. If you were a profesional, earning you living with your gun and counting on it every day to live to supper, would you practice these things? Criminals with guns, practice and know how to use their weapons.

 

[Nuclear]

I shoot in steel competitions for fun, so yeah, I “practice” slide lock reloads under the stress of a timer.

I would say the lower your gun’s capacity, the more important a spare mag and being able to do a mag change is. Under stress, you will miss more than normal. A moving target will make you miss more than normal. You moving will make you miss more than normal.