Tactical Response Pics from Fighting and Advanced Fighting pistol 16-19sept.

[possum]

Kydex paddle holsters break at the rivets.

maybe cheap kydex, never seen that happen with quality kydex like the blade techs, and that is alot of what is being used in this class.

i think that the class would have suggest against the kydex blade tech holsters if what you stated was an issue, but the school reccomends the use of blade tech.so i highly doubt that there is any issue to worry about.

 

[ShackleMeNot]

I see a lot of kydex in those pics.

Have you ever tried to retain a weapon in a kydex holster while someone is REALLY trying to get it away from you?

Kydex paddle holsters break at the rivets.

Actually, I have.

No breakage on quality holsters.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Be Prepared

It looks like the kind of training I would like to pursue.

You never know from where and from what you may be attacked.

It certainly doesn't hurt to BE PREPARED --- Heck, I remember that motto from my "Boy Scout days" in the 60's.

 

[BBQLS1]

What are some good kydex holsters?

 

[Green Lantern]

*shakes head at majority of posts on first page*

I repeat what Six Feet Under says, for it's REALLY worth thinking about:

Or if you're getting the crap knocked out of you by two different guys and one pulls a weapon on you and you have to shoot him...

Gunfights don't just happen in an isosceles stance.

Sounds like some of y'all need to join the SAF and sign up for some of Rob Pincus' (sp?) excellent training DVDs they send every so often. Stuff like in the OP may LOOK like mall-ninja foolishness, until you realize that you may one day be fighting for your life in a similar position!

 

[Chilean]

Possum
Looks like a good and fun training

I wish I was there

 

[Cesiumsponge]

The late Jim Cirillo Sr. (of NYPD stakeout squad fame) taught a "Downed Officer Defense Course" that utilized principles of shooting from strange positions, like on your back or upside down.

Anyone familiar with his credentials will recognize the man has real-life practical experience over decades, has survived over a dozen gunfights, hundreds of armed encounters, and has seen officers slain because they didn't know how to use their firearm in unconventional situations or positions. So please ignore anyone dismissing unconventional shooting positions as "tacticool" or "mall ninja".

Here is a link to some photos of a course Cirillo Sr taught. Note the very unconventional shooting stances. Please, I dare the detractors to call Jim Cirillo Sr. a mall ninja.

 

[PPGMD]

What are some good kydex holsters?

Bladetech, Comp-tac, Raven Concealment, and Safariland just to name a few brands.

 

[contenderman]

You can learn in any environment. However, nothing is "pure Gospel" so you have to take it all in, digest it, and take away what fits your line of thinking.

TDI has some great programs and very good instructors. Blackwater is in the big leagues. Now your claim to have experienced both and this course you posted the pics of ... you rate above either of the other two. Wow, I'd like to go there! Care to tell us who they are and provide some contact info.?

Just goes to show how deceiving looks can be. The range is pretty ad hoc, kinda like what we've thrown together in the past for some weekend inter-departmental/service shoots. And from the looks of several of the folks ... the eats must be out of this world too.

Oh BTW ... what's the AMU (Army Markmanship Unit) have to do with defensive/tactical training? Have they added some new stuff?

 

[PPGMD]

Just goes to show how deceiving looks can be. The range is pretty ad hoc, kinda like what we've thrown together in the past for some weekend inter-departmental/service shoots. And from the looks of several of the folks ... the eats must be out of this world too.

Tactical Response does a lot of traveling classes, so they do they likely structure their classes to use the minimum level of infrastructure on the premise. But it's more then enough to emphasize the fighting mindset. You don't need turners and poppers to do that.

You want to learn fast accurate shooting go to the Rogers Shooting School near Atlanta. But if you talk to those that have been there, outside of the lecture the first night there is very little mindset oriented exercises, instead you stand at a door shooting at steel targets. That being said I will be attending Rogers in 09 because I need to practice that type of shooting.

The eats, yeah they are pretty good, Kody's BBQ is some of the best around, and every night you go to dinner as a class.

 

[B yond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDeKtgkZKmQ

Not sure which brand this was.

I've done some kydex work myself, and I wouldn't want to trust it for retention while OCing. Works great for CC though.

YMMV

 

[PPGMD]

That's not Kydex, it's injection molded plastic. The brand is Fobus it uses rivets to hold the holster together. It broke along the rivets that hold the paddle to the back side of the holster.

Quality kydex will not break nearly as easily because they are much stronger.

 

[contenderman]

PPGMD,

Thanks for the response. I had mistakenly gotten the impression that this was a "static location" operation.

My error.

There are several outfits that have a "road or circuit" component. Not sure if they are currently doing it, but TDI has done this in the past.

Training is a never ending process and I'm always looking for opportunities to expand my perspective. However, now days the finances also have a big impact on what I can do and not do.

I will try and dig up more info. on their programs, etc.

I'm still puzzled by the AMU reference, but if I took one aspect out of context I guess I could have taken 2 just as easily.

 

[possum]

I will try and dig up more info. on their programs, etc

www.tacticalresponse.com os the website that will give you the classes they offer, the schedule and all the info that you will need to know for thier classes.
www.getoffthex.com is thier online gun forum there is alot of aar's, pics and other great info on there.

I'm still puzzled by the AMU reference,

i was listing all the training that i have been in in the past, not necessarily "defensive/tactical" training, which that was the only non "tactical/defense" training that i have done. i just giving a run down on where i am comming from and the experience that i had before the classes at tactical response.

even though training with members of the amu might not have been "tactical/defense" oriented it was quality time spent, great training value and trigger time, and i believe anytime you are shooting is oppurtunity for good training.

 

[hankdatank1362]

after 15 months away form a child i have never seen and one that i have been away from more than i have been around, pt was the last thing on my mind on leave, spending time with the family was my priority.

First off, God bless you, and I know I've told you thanks before, but thanks... again.

Second, that looks like a good class. I really like the rear-necked choke and the punch drill. The "dizzy" drill seems like it has a potential for danger, but I'm sure it was all very well-supervised.

 

[possum]

First off, God bless you, and I know I've told you thanks before, but thanks... again.

thank you sir, and you are very welcome, thank you for the blessing!

Second, that looks like a good class. I really like the rear-necked choke and the punch drill. The "dizzy" drill seems like it has a potential for danger, but I'm sure it was all very well-supervised.

yes everything was well supervised and in a controled enviornment.

I'm taking the Fighting Pistol course in Nov..looking forward to learning something new and maybe even having fun.

awesome make sure you give a good aar here and at www.getoffthex.com and let us know what you thought.

Someone mentioned Rob Pincus in a earlier post
I am very much aware of Mr. Pincus and very much look foward to training with him in the future. as a matter of fact there is a class of his comming up this month in Temple GA and i would very much like to be there but i have to be in a wedding in NC, so far there are only 4 people signed up to go so it should be a small class, though i won't be there and i wish i could, i will be looking into training with him asap for sure.

 

[Don Gwinn]

A lot of the stuff people are referring to as "quality Kydex" here isn't even Kydex. Kydex is a brand name for a plastic that's widely used because it responds well to heat and is easy to form. In other words, it was originally chosen for holsters and sheaths because it was easy to work with and could be purchased in convenient sheet form.

I know Blackhawk uses a very different plastic, and many of their models incorporate carbon fiber in the material (though it doesn't look like the pretty carbon fiber matrix embedded in clear resin that we're used to seeing.) I wouldn't be surprised if Blade-Tech and others were using something similar, but as pointed out above, even if they're using Kydex, that's a big step up from what Fobus uses. I've heard the FOBUS stuff referred to as the same formulation used for milk jugs, but I wouldn't know from my own "expertise."

 

[PPGMD]

Blade-tech uses kydex for almost all their holsters exception the new cheaper stuff which uses injection molded plastic. You can tell kydex from other materials because it is folded over the gun mold, so always one side is a rounded shape.

 

[Dihappy]

I wish i could attend some training like this. I will also take a guess and say that most defensive uses with a handgun have probably involved civilians who have never had any "tactical" training.

 

[theken206]

can you explain about the escaping the rear naked choke drill and how it works.

dont get it

and I do indeed know what the RNC is lol

 

[possum]

can you explain about the escaping the rear naked choke drill and how it works.

dont get it

and I do indeed know what the RNC is lol

first let me explain the reasons this drill was conducted, or at least the reasons why i believe that it was done.
1) most people have never been "choked" they don't know what it feels like, and they have never experienced "going out" ( i have as i do alot of combatves in the army and i have been "asleep" several times.
be advised that the instructers were not apply all that much pressure, but for the ones that did want it they would give it to them.
2) to re enforce the fact that bad guys normall operate in pairs or more.
3) add stress etc.

They showed us how to defend against the rear naked choke, point one being not to get in the situation at all if you can help it, but that can be said about everything defense wise.
1) put your chin down
2) use your arm to keep them from being able to get a good "bite" on you with the choke, also which allows you to protect your head.
in this position we learned how to "shoot" the attacker off of us if in the rear naked choke. basically alot like a guarded retention position. this is what it looked like.

now that was used to get the guy off of our back which is paramount as he is most likely the biggest threat to us at that time.

then we worked on the shooting while being choked, which replicates that we are aimed in on a bad guy and we are grabbed form behind.
that looked like so.

though it took 2 seperate drills, and situations to show how it is done, it was done effecivly and in a safe way.

i hope this helps.

 

[possum]

other interesting things along these lines that we learned was how to shoot out of a "bear" hug sittuation, as well as how to, and were to hit someone that is charging you. ie in a fight people like to put there head down and try to "tackle" or charge you. which as alot of you may know that is a perfect set up for a guillotine, but again this is a fight with a handgun course and not a hand to hand course so that wasn't covered butu i did bring that up to the instructers and they agreed. sorry there are no pics of these as i didn't have the camera out at this time.

 

[theken206]

"1) put your chin down
2) use your arm to keep them from being able to get a good "bite" on you with the choke, also which allows you to protect your head.
in this position we learned how to "shoot" the attacker off of us if in the rear naked choke."

very cool, but to add, tightly shrugging ones shoulder up AND bringing the chin down should be part of it.

"2) use your arm to keep them from being able to get a good "bite" on you with the choke, also which allows you to protect your head."

so the drill doesnt assume the attacker actually has the choke locked?? Reaching up and pulling the top hand down forcing the attacker to re grip or switch to the "gable grip" like the second pic' might be good to include to.

but its made more difficult via only having one hand as one needs to draw and shoot.

all in all its pretty cool stuff

 

[psyopspec]

Thanks for the report, pics, and link. I'd love to see more threads like this on THR (minus the haters).

 

[possum]

Thanks for the report, pics, and link. I'd love to see more threads like this on THR (minus the haters).

no problem, i hope you got something out of it, and i can asure you that i will post aar's from all the classes that i take from now own. I might not add any pictures as that is asking for a hassel! but i will definetly write an aar for sure.