talk me into the 7.64x25
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Frightener 88
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- Jul 4, 2007
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If you buy surplus the ammo gets even cheaper. nuff said.
wally
Member
No he means 7.62x25 ammo (about $130/1250 rounds) and a TT-33 or CZ-52.
Its the cheapest centerfire handgun you can shoot these days without reloading, but all the cheap ammo is corrosive so you need to clean with water, then oil after every outing.
I've been doing this for well over a year so I should try to talk you out of it so the ammo supplies will last longer
Once the cheap ammo is all shot up, it'll lose its attractiveness quickly!
--wally.
Its the cheapest centerfire handgun you can shoot these days without reloading, but all the cheap ammo is corrosive so you need to clean with water, then oil after every outing.
I've been doing this for well over a year so I should try to talk you out of it so the ammo supplies will last longer
Once the cheap ammo is all shot up, it'll lose its attractiveness quickly!
--wally.
JAV8000
Member
7.62x25 loaded with JHPs are vicious defense rounds.
Claude Clay
Member
if you get the cz 52 be careful: some of the decockers can sometimes cause the gun to fire.
...but you can fire the hot ammo and even get a 9mm bbl for it.
if you get the tok 33 be careful you do not fire the hot smg rounds in it.
...but you can fire the hot ammo and even get a 9mm bbl for it.
if you get the tok 33 be careful you do not fire the hot smg rounds in it.
Fast bottle necked round.
Similar to the .357SIG but even smaller diameter bullet and lighter bullet weights.
Been around a long time so there is inexpensive firearms chambered in it, and inexpensive surplus ammo from Soviet nations that used it.
Great submachinegun cartridge, accomplished long ago what many have been trying to accomplish again with more modern PDW cartridges. Very low recoil and high penetration.
Similar to the .357SIG but even smaller diameter bullet and lighter bullet weights.
Been around a long time so there is inexpensive firearms chambered in it, and inexpensive surplus ammo from Soviet nations that used it.
Great submachinegun cartridge, accomplished long ago what many have been trying to accomplish again with more modern PDW cartridges. Very low recoil and high penetration.
seems pretty cool... the gun is ugly as sin, but the cartridge just seems like a must have.... then I can worry about getting a few thousand rounds for it... I could see it becoming the most shot gun in my collection... (ammo purposes)
it is SIMILAR to a 1911 which is a great thing as I am a big fan of them.
it is SIMILAR to a 1911 which is a great thing as I am a big fan of them.
HorseSoldier
Member
Cheap round, with some respectable stats -- the main problem being that you don't have much choice on platform to shoot it through, and neither option is ergonomically super in my opinion.
Prince Yamato
Member
It's a fun round. It has all the recoil of a 9mm. If you put new Winchester ammo in it (as in domestic 7.62x25), you will find it quite accurate.
Very fun round. Zips by at 1600fps at the muzzle out of a 4.5" bbl. Ammo is the cheapest center-fire round out there. $130 for 1224 rounds by my last count. I find the recoil to be about 2/3rds that of a 9mm. Very easy to control.
It is corrosive, but it is also Mil-Surp, so it comes with all the pluses and minuses of Mil-Surp. Round also exhibits destabilization in a fluid medium leading the FMJ bullet to yaw. JHP Is scary.
The TT33 is almost like a revolver in feeding. Each round is fed almost directly INTO the chamber. The feed ramp is almost completely unnecessary. It shares this feature with a S&W 1006.
As for some mythis I saw crop up: A TT33 is much stronger than the CZ52. This is not true by simple virtue of the TT33 having a significantly thicker chamber wall then the CZ. The CZ52 has a milled cutout on the bottom to make room for its roller-locking mechanism, that leads to the bottom chamber wall being quite thin. For more info, search the member "clark" or just read this thread: The definitive TT33 thread.
Basically, the TT33 will shoot itself loose into a rattle trap, but will never bust. A CZ52 will lock up rock-solid each and every time, right up until it hand-grenades.
Ergonomics: The TT33 is meant to be held with one hand. This is because the gun was designed A) At a time when sidearms were seen to be in the same category as officer's swords, and B) The style was one-handed shooting for pistols.
With that lineage, the TT33 grip angle is surprisingly ergonomic. It is a little more vertical than a 1911, but once you pick it up, the gun seems to want to snap onto target. It is very easy to aim and shoot, and it easily snaps back on target after each shot. Also the front strap angle is the same as a 1911, which seems to be more vital than the rear-strap angle as far as ergonomics goes.
Some shooters will not like the short grip on the TT33. It is just barely big enough to grip with an average sized palm. Basically its a sub-compact length grip.
Trigger is a very good military SA trigger. Depending on wear it may have some grit or be very smooth, short and crisp, like a revolver or a 1911. Polishing of the trigger reset leaf spring will improve the smoothness.
Gun breaks down exactly like a 1911, only different detail is a retaining plate holding down the slide-stop.
Trigger pack is made up of 3 parts and is a self-contained module that is easily removed (see: falls out) from the gun for cleaning or maintenance. If you ever wanted to try DIY trigger jobs, its is a good gun to learn on.
Safety: One of the bigest myths about the TT33 is it has no safety. This is utterly false. It has a safety integrated into the hammer. The half-cock notch is the safety of the TT33. At this position, the hammer-pack locks both the trigger and the slide. The gun is now "half-cocked and locked." The only way to return it to function is to pull the hammer all the way back. There is no firing pin safety, so if the gun is dropped from a tall enough height it will go off. But, short of a 30 yard fall or hitting the back of the gun with a sledge, it will not go off "half-cocked".
Oh, and since the 7.62x25 round was adopted from the .30 Mauser, it is one of the few (only?) Russian 7.62 weapons that uses a true .308 bullet instead of a .311
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
It is corrosive, but it is also Mil-Surp, so it comes with all the pluses and minuses of Mil-Surp. Round also exhibits destabilization in a fluid medium leading the FMJ bullet to yaw. JHP Is scary.
The TT33 is almost like a revolver in feeding. Each round is fed almost directly INTO the chamber. The feed ramp is almost completely unnecessary. It shares this feature with a S&W 1006.
As for some mythis I saw crop up: A TT33 is much stronger than the CZ52. This is not true by simple virtue of the TT33 having a significantly thicker chamber wall then the CZ. The CZ52 has a milled cutout on the bottom to make room for its roller-locking mechanism, that leads to the bottom chamber wall being quite thin. For more info, search the member "clark" or just read this thread: The definitive TT33 thread.
Basically, the TT33 will shoot itself loose into a rattle trap, but will never bust. A CZ52 will lock up rock-solid each and every time, right up until it hand-grenades.
Ergonomics: The TT33 is meant to be held with one hand. This is because the gun was designed A) At a time when sidearms were seen to be in the same category as officer's swords, and B) The style was one-handed shooting for pistols.
With that lineage, the TT33 grip angle is surprisingly ergonomic. It is a little more vertical than a 1911, but once you pick it up, the gun seems to want to snap onto target. It is very easy to aim and shoot, and it easily snaps back on target after each shot. Also the front strap angle is the same as a 1911, which seems to be more vital than the rear-strap angle as far as ergonomics goes.
Some shooters will not like the short grip on the TT33. It is just barely big enough to grip with an average sized palm. Basically its a sub-compact length grip.
Trigger is a very good military SA trigger. Depending on wear it may have some grit or be very smooth, short and crisp, like a revolver or a 1911. Polishing of the trigger reset leaf spring will improve the smoothness.
Gun breaks down exactly like a 1911, only different detail is a retaining plate holding down the slide-stop.
Trigger pack is made up of 3 parts and is a self-contained module that is easily removed (see: falls out) from the gun for cleaning or maintenance. If you ever wanted to try DIY trigger jobs, its is a good gun to learn on.
Safety: One of the bigest myths about the TT33 is it has no safety. This is utterly false. It has a safety integrated into the hammer. The half-cock notch is the safety of the TT33. At this position, the hammer-pack locks both the trigger and the slide. The gun is now "half-cocked and locked." The only way to return it to function is to pull the hammer all the way back. There is no firing pin safety, so if the gun is dropped from a tall enough height it will go off. But, short of a 30 yard fall or hitting the back of the gun with a sledge, it will not go off "half-cocked".
Oh, and since the 7.62x25 round was adopted from the .30 Mauser, it is one of the few (only?) Russian 7.62 weapons that uses a true .308 bullet instead of a .311
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
c919
Member
What is there to talk about about?
Go buy a Tokarev, post pics and brag, go shoot it, and have some good cheap fun with and awesome round and awesome gun.
I love mine. One of the best $200 I've ever spent.
Go buy a Tokarev, post pics and brag, go shoot it, and have some good cheap fun with and awesome round and awesome gun.
I love mine. One of the best $200 I've ever spent.
Beagle-zebub
Member
Let the flaming begin!
wally
Member
You are correct about the CZ52 decocker, but the TT-33 is way stronger than the CZ52 and will do much better with "hot" loads. A quick comparison of the chamber's thinnest points should quickly convince you of this.
Search for posts by "Clark" he's intentionally overloaded and blown up more guns than probably anybody outside a destructive testing facility. He's got the tests to prove it.
--wally.
Exactly! I have put over 500 rounds through mine since August and it is fantastic. It does have an issue with one magazine where the rounds will not feed sometimes, but a pull off the slide and you are go to go.I have been too lazy to fix the mag. I shoot Privi and S&B non-corrosive with some Wolf NC thrown in. At $16 a box it is more expensive than the corrosive stuff, but my gun still looks brand new
I have given it to people who have never held a gun before and they have been able to hit the target accurately. It is a great confidence builder for a newbie. I picked mine up for under $200 at the Roanoke, Va gun show.
I went in looking for a snubbie in .38 spcl but this commie gun called out to me. I have no problem gripping it (and I have big hands) either one handed or two handed. It is a lot of fun and makes a nice hole in the paper every time.
The only issue I have is that it is too hot a round for a SD gun. I am afraid of collateral damage from it shooting through the BG. I am waiting on Wolf JHP ammo but it always seems to be backordered
I have given it to people who have never held a gun before and they have been able to hit the target accurately. It is a great confidence builder for a newbie. I picked mine up for under $200 at the Roanoke, Va gun show.
I went in looking for a snubbie in .38 spcl but this commie gun called out to me. I have no problem gripping it (and I have big hands) either one handed or two handed. It is a lot of fun and makes a nice hole in the paper every time.
The only issue I have is that it is too hot a round for a SD gun. I am afraid of collateral damage from it shooting through the BG. I am waiting on Wolf JHP ammo but it always seems to be backordered
Sgt. Stiglitz
Member
Duce1, try loading the 60gr Speer Gold Dot HP into it made for the .32ACP. 
You will need to resize it to .308 as it comes from Speer sized to .312. No need to change the powder I reuse the factory powder for the little 85gr FMJ's. I have loaded .30cal sabots into the 7.62X25 also with good results! Look closely at the rounds in the photo and the date. Been doing it a long time! 
You will need to resize it to .308 as it comes from Speer sized to .312. No need to change the powder I reuse the factory powder for the little 85gr FMJ's. I have loaded .30cal sabots into the 7.62X25 also with good results! Look closely at the rounds in the photo and the date. Been doing it a long time!
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Darn I need to go out on the edge sometimes reloading ?Duce1, try loading the 60gr Speer Gold Dot HP into it made for the .32ACP.
I just try to load as factory and never do as you have ?
I am loading 98 grain RN right now for it ................
Sgt. Stiglitz
Member
I reload for the .30 Carbine with a cast lead Lymann 130 Gr RN, so I have a sizer die for .308. The little Speer 60gr Gold Dot HP's wont exit a gallon jug of water. .30 Carbine 110gr FMJ's or soft points work well in the 7.62X25 also. Here is a link for when you get the urge to go out on a limb.
http://www.eabco.com/reload02.html
http://www.makarov.com/tokloaddata.html
With the factory powder and a 52gr HP I was getting 1700+fps with the sabots.....
http://www.eabco.com/reload02.html
http://www.makarov.com/tokloaddata.html
With the factory powder and a 52gr HP I was getting 1700+fps with the sabots.....
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