Taming a bad Model Seven Remington.

[Float Pilot]

Taming bad M7 Rem CARBINE QUEST Cont.

This is a follow up to my searching for a light hiking carbine thread.
I picked up a Model Seven in 308 with the synthetic stock and matte metal. (yeah the price was right but I should have waited for something else.)

Problem #1, the bolt stop would not stay engaged.
Solve #1, I replaced the bolt stop spring and removed the metal burrs in the bolt stop slot.

Problem # 2. The trigger group was not centered in the trigger slot in the plastic stock and was rubbing on one side.
Solve #2. The plastic stock was replaced with a composite Bell and Carlson.

Problem 3 . The groups dramatically changed impact upon firing from a slung position. Over a foot to one side !!!!!
Solve 3. SEE NEW STOCK NOTE.


The Remington factory stock is a hollow plastic stock which flexes quite a bit. It has big hollow voids in the barrel chamber. It does have two pressure points in the barrel channel which actually seem to help.


WITH THE FACTORY PLASTIC STOCK Accuracy was OK for factory ammo and a questionable barrel channel.

Fired over sandbags, 100 yards, temp 29 degrees F, wind 8-12 knots cross wind. 5 shot groups.

M-118 special Ball ( 173 grain boat-tail) = 1.4 inch grp. 4 shots in 0.80 inches.

Old Federal 165 grain sp premium. = 1.16 inch group

Federal 180 grain sp = 1.68 inch group

Federal 168 grain Sierra HPBT match = 2.00 inch group

147 grain mystery ball ammo= 2.1 inch group.

 

[DPris]

I tried two Sevens over the past 10 years or so, one was an absolute disaster & the other had a barrel canted so bad the rear sight was half out of its dovetail before it'd line up with the front blade.

I gave up.

Nice concept for a short carbine, but only if Remington builds it right.
Denis

 

[Float Pilot]

So I installed the Bell And Carlson stock which totally free floats the barrel.

But as we know, not all lightweight barrels like to be free floated.

Please note that the B&C stock has a cheek rest.

With composite stock and free floated barrel:

175 grain Federal Match = 1.6 inches

M-118 Special Ball = 2.399 inches

Federal 165 grain premium ( 20 years old) = 1.50 inches

Federal 180gr Soft Point = 1.06 inches.

 

[Float Pilot]

PART THREE:

So the B&C stock feels more solid than the Remington factory stock, but it actually weighs about the same.

I did find a Leupold compact 3x9 scope, but the front lens has a big defect so it is on its way to the Leupold shop. So as an interim scope I installed a fairly compact 2x7 Burris scope.

With the Burris scope, the new stock and a 1.25 inch wide all leather Montana Sling, the rifle weighs 6.90 pounds. The trigger pull is a crisp 4 pounds on my scale.

So the next firing today was with a temporary pressure point at the end of the barrel channel. For this I just loosened the action and then inserted a piece of folded ammo box cardboard into the barrel channel.

M118 special ball = 1.050 inches.

M80 147gr Ball MG ammo= 1.200 inches

Federal 180gr SP = 1.118 inches

Federal 170 grain reduced recoil = 0.70 inches average of three groups one group was 0.34 inches

Federal 175gr Match = 1.177 inches

 

[Float Pilot]

BTW> The next step will be to make a permanent pressure point in the barrel channel with some bedding compound and maybe make sure the action is well bedded as well.

 

[Hook67]

Looks as though you have a keeper, FP! You sure had some issues to overcome with it, though. I have not had those kind of problems with rifles before but that could be because I normally buy used. Guess other owners may have already worked the kinks out.

As I said in your first thread, I am a huge fan of M600 Remingtons and their modern rendition, the Model Sevens.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I've got three model -7's. .223, .260, 7mm08.

The most accurate is the .260 by a considerable margin. However, my favorite is the 7mm08.
It's the least accurate, but is a stomp-down big-game killer. With 150gr bullets, only one deer has taken a step, and it got away because I'd forgot to resight from shooting 120gr bullets. (it shot ~8" low at 100yds).
It won't consistently break 2" for 5-shots at 100yds, though 1.5" with 3-shots usually "do-able".
I've killed 30 or so deer with it, and a friend took a nice 6x6 bull elk with it in '06 near Steamboat Springs, CO.
It wears a Leupold 2.5x-8x Vari-X III. My favorite rifle/scope match.

The .260 just doesn't impress me so much. With it's 1/10" twist barrel, it won't shoot anything 129gr (or heavier) and tipped-boattail (ie: 129gr or 140gr Hornady SST's) accurately. It does shoot well with Speer 140's and Sierra 160's (5-shots under 1"). But, bullets MUST be touching lands, and loads ~5% below published max's with RL22, RL19, or IMR4350. RL17 is good with 120's, but not so good with 140's or 160's...
With it's CDL stock and matte finish, it's "too pretty" to hunt in the rain or ride a week in a saddle scabbard.
The 7mm08 is in a brown/tan laminated stock and with semi-gloss finish shows little wear so far... I've hunted Colorado and Wyoming with it. Probably will hunt Wyoming again this fall for elk...but it's a constant "battle" as to whether the "little" Remington or the 6lb .30/06 (Colt Lt.Rifle) or a Marlin .338MX get's to go...

But, I scounged a box of 7mm 150gr Nosler Partitions that are screaming for a chance at a cow elk... I'll probably take it and a .338Marlin this time...If hunting horse back, the Marlin, if hiking, definitely the Remington...

Added;
I know your "pain" about getting the Rem's to shoot. My Mod-7 used to shoot very, very low from a slinged position for the first shot. After I glass bedded/free-floated it, and seriously lighted the trigger pull, it now shoots consistently from either benched, slung, or shooting prone. I resisted rebarreling it however. It's got a very "fast" 20"bbl. I bought it intending to re-chamber or rebarrel it to .284win or 6.5-284. I made the "mistake" of shooting it with some factory PMC 139gr ammo. It averaged 2,980fps with 2 of 5 shots going over 3,000fps. It routinely does this with RL17 and Hornady 139gr BtSpt's. I bought about a 1,000 "blems" from MidwayUSA about 7yrs ago. Still got most of them... killed a bunch of deer with them !!! Never recovered one either. Only "parts" of a 120gr Nosler Ballistic tip, and a 140gr Nosler partition have been recovered. Both from less than 100lb deer. My friend did recover an expanded 140gr Sierra Pro-hunter from his elk. Three 140gr Partitons transited the chest broadside. I couldn't believe he shot the elk 4 times, but the guide said "keep shooting", till it went down. Everyone in the camp tried to buy the rifle from him... They were impressed by the performance on the near 1,000lb bull, and ~7lb weight... vs. 10+ for all the "magnums" in the camp that did no better...

 

[Float Pilot]

I picked up the B&C stock through RED HAWK RIFLES. They seemed to have the best price I could find on my junky computer.
http://www.redhawkrifles.com/

B&C set this up as a free float system. But as I learned with my M-700 Titanium rifle and a couple M-70 feather weights, the thin barrels sometimes like a pressure point or even a total barrel channel bedding.

While the B&C stock has aluminum bedding blocks anchored into it, I think the action might be moving back and forth a wee bit from side to side.

NOTE:::::::: The cardboard pressure point stopped the two-group problem, thus suggesting that the action was moving back and forth between shots. It also made the impact point move several inches upward on paper.

See attached photo of two groups next to each other. The weird thing is that they are both from one point of aim. The bullets impacted back and forth, making two groups.

 

[DRYHUMOR]

You might try a silicone o ring under the barrel for pressure. Lots of thicknesses available. Just torque the action screws the same inch pounds point each test run.

 

[notaglockfanboy]

I have not experienced this with the model 7 but have with a few others. I would bed the action and shoot it, then if needed, bed the barrel a few inches. I have not had good luck with a fully bedded barrel, as when shooting from a rest vs off hand you will get different pressures on the barrel totally negating the bedding. YMMV

 

[Float Pilot]

I have had good luck with total barrel channel bedding on a couple rifles and it made them predictable with various weights of bullets and while being held in various positions....IF the stock is good and solid.

Here is a Husqvarna lightweight 30-06 that had a cracked stock under the action. Now the entire action and barrel are bedded. It shoots groups like this with almost every bullet weight.

THEN here is a 7x57mm Mauser M-98 that has a totally bedded barrel and action. ( 20 inch barrel) I bedded this rifle back around 1972 or 1973. It still shoots just fine. with most bullet weights.

 

[Bigdog57]

My hunting buddy has several Model Sevens in various calibers, and all are tackdrivers. But he buys only Custom Shop rifles.
My current Model Seven is a .223Rem in the factory synthetic stock. It isn't too flimsy, compared to other rifles, but it shoots okay. I can usually put three into an inch at 100 yards. It prefers bullets greater than 55 grains. But I have done some pretty fair shooting with 55 grain FMJ bullets.
I feel it could do better, and tried a laminate stock from Boyd's. I bedded the action only. Accuracy suffered. Danggit! Put the plastic stock back on (I have it bedded too) and it shoots as always. It does have the factory pressure point, which the Boyd's stock lacks. I need to revisit that stock and work with it. I really don't care for synthetic stocks.

 

[Float Pilot]

I am going to make a nice pressure point with some bedding compound. I have some modeling clay to hold it in one area. I just need to get past all the honey-do list first.

 

[Fremmer]

Wouldn't glass-bedding the rifle accomplish the same thing?

 

[Float Pilot]

Oh the action is also going to be bedded. It is out in the shop right now.

 

[taliv]

great thread!

 

[Pacsd]

I've got a 1983 vintage Model 7 .243 with the wood stock and Snabel fore end. It will shoot any factory or reloads with MOA. The current Remingtons, my opinion are as bad a guns get. Too bad because I was once a dyed in the wool Rem man.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Nice thread Float Pilot!

(subscribing to the story. every rifle is a project!)

 

[Float Pilot]

It is about 3 degrees above zero right now, so the electrical heater out in my shop is going full throttle to let the bedding compound cure. I really need to insulate the shop floor a lot better. It was making my feet ache to stand out there.

Only shop bench pic I have from when it was cleaned up enough not to be embarrassing.

 

[Float Pilot]

OK the new pressure point is in the barrel channel and a tightened up the fit of the recoil lug on the action. I used a couple pieces of modeling clay to hold the bedding compound in one place in the barrel channel.
It is friggin zero degrees F and windy at my house.
I will head out to the range on Sunday if time allows.

 

[TexasPatriot.308]

the new Remingtons are all trash thanks to Cerebrus or whatever company that was that bought them....go to Savage Ruger or Winchester...and even some Winchester are made overseas now....Remington are pure crap plus the low end cheapos they sell are really trash.

 

[sage5907]

Float Pilot, what brand of bedding compound did you use in the barrel channel? The job looks good.

 

[Float Pilot]

I just used ACCUGLASS GEL. It was an older box and my shop has not been very warm lately. ( the local electrical co-op is neither co nor op and their prices have gone through the roof)

So for some reason this batch felt rather grainy.... And it is a 150 mile round trip to buy more...
I think Marine Tex would have worked just as well. Although coloring might have been a problem. I also made the recoil lug a wee bit tighter by have some on the sides.

Right now it is 5 degree above (F) and the wind is blowing a fine powdery snow. I am looking around to see if I have any ammo left for testing. I need to do some hand-loading.... but this winter has been pretty busy with other work...

 

[Float Pilot]

It warmed up to 19 degrees, but the wind is howling....
I managed to get a few rounds off before my target frame started to blow away.

This light barrel likes three shot groups unless you wait around for a LONG time for barrel cooling. This is from some older 180 grain Federal premium ammo loaded with 180 grain Speer Grand Slams. Three shots in 0.46 inch and four into a wee bit more than 3/4 or an inch. So either the barrel was getting warm or I pulled it after seeing the fist three shots in my spotting scope.

It looks like an improvement to me....

 

[Float Pilot]

I had a chance to run off a few rounds again today.
Three shot groups because of the thin barrel and I did not have time to burn waiting for a cool barrel. ( aircraft annual)

Anyway these three groups were shot at 100 yards using the same point of aim.
175 grain Sierra Match King Fed factory load. 180 grain Federal SP, and 180 grain Winchester power point.

At least it seems fairly consistent now with a recoil lug bedding and a pressure point inside the barrel channel.