TAURUS got me. Broken gun.

[scramasax]

Not a "gun snob" just someone that has shot for over 49 years and a working gunsmith. Taurus is not a gun to bet your life on. At this time they also have the worst customer service.

They have made a few OK guns, the 92 with Beretta machinery comes to mind. Now that they have finished their lawsuit maybe they will clean house and start over.

Hookeye states it very well.

 

[shootniron]

You don't say if you brought them new but if you did I would have kept returning them on their nickel until they were fixed to my satisfaction in addition to writing to the CEO (I believe it is Anthony Acitelli) about the problem.

Yes, they were both purchased brand new...they flatly refused to EVER pay return shipping...from one week after purchase. And, one of them failed on the FIRST cylinder full of rounds...

Just an absolute exercise in futility...

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Based upon OP description...

If a firearm is gonna fail on me due to manufacturer's causes - regardless of how long it is owned - I want it to fail as near to immediately upon initial use as possible.

Good thing your weren't yet "counting on it".

So there's that I guess.

Todd.

 

[BSA1]

Been into handguns for a couple of decades.
My dad a dealer, his buds all handgunners, some of thick wallet.
Seen a lot of stuff, shot a lot of stuff.
Worked in a decent shop (volume) and sold a lot of stuff.

Only a couple decades still makes you a rookie. (Ah to be that young again).

In the 1970’s S&W revolvers came from the factory with heavy double action trigger pulls. Gunsmiths made a nice living doing action jobs on them.

In the 1980’s S&W was owned by bean counters and quality tanked. I worked in gun shop and had horrible guns come from the factory. I have a S&W Model 25-5 that I brought new in 1982 that has oversize cylinder throats…at least .455”.

Quality was slow to improve under Tomkins. Horrible quality control continued. My Department brought six new S&W K frame 38 Special revolvers around 1995. The first time they were shot the barrel cracked and fell completely off of the frame on one gun and the barrel on a second was badly cracked in the same location!!! Oh the ammo was lead semi-wad cutter target loads. We sent all six guns back to the factory.

Then we have the infamous internal lock that would go into lock from the recoil.

Now they have problems with over clocked barrels and frame cracking on their airweight J-Frames. It is well documented on the Internet with lots of pictures. Pay a visit to the Smith & Wesson forum.

And they are not just having problems with revolvers. Just last year The Texas Department of Public Safety dropped the M&P and reissued it’s SIG handguns.

Let’s play honestly when criticizing the quality control of gun manufacturers. Taurus has q.c. with their revolvers yet they don’t seem to have problems with their semi-autos. Yet S&W has turned out many, many more defective handguns including their semi-autos.

 

[Hookeye]

At least with the other brands they can either be fixed by somebody of decent brain and hand or the factory fixes/replaces them in rapid fashion.

I'd rather throw a rick than shoot a Taurus.

Seen two airweights crack, one many yrs after purchase (as unfired for a long while). Smith replaced them quickly. Both cracked were nickle.

Minty 29-2, due to hangup (overtravel pin had burr). Did owner flip it or was it jacked from the get go? Dunno. Took no time/effort to fix.

Fixable.

As for the 25-5.............never was a .45 Colt fan and have always looked down my nose at those who skip a reg 29 or 629

Lawyer lock guns are not even to be discussed, much like Ruger warnings stamped on their guns...........ridiculous.

Makes them look kinda sorta like a Taurus.

Shop I worked at (still my hangout) does a hefty business. Customer base demands they carry Taurus. Again, worked engineering...............know a little bit about making things and stats.

Even volume adjusted, across all models..............Taurus sucks.

 

[BSA1]

At least with the other brands they can either be fixed by somebody of decent brain and hand or the factory fixes/replaces them in rapid fashion.

So we agree about the history and ongoing poor quality of S&W handguns.

You must of missed my thread about how quickly they replaced my M-941.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=724540&highlight=taurus+responsibility

I'm not a Taurus fanboy but I am honest about problems with I have seen with both Taurus and S&W.

 

[Hookeye]

My dad had 5 guns go down in a week LOL.

Kart slide lost extractor, Goldcup sheared front sight, Python cylinder had issue, Contender had spring break...........think the other a HS with custom bbl for IHMSA.

Shoot a lot, components wear/break.

He fixed 'em all and kept on blasting.

They all had a ton of shooting through them before the problems popped up.
Quickly fixed, back in action..............the only one to repeat a problem was the GC, which did not have a dovetailed front sight.

Most times a gun has a "problem" it's not the gun. Crap ammo, wrong ammo, neglect, abuse, misassembly, changed components.

Debugging why something doesn't work..........seen too many think they know the problem and want to break out the files/Dremel. Even supposedly professional folks who should know WTH is going on, can bring you something with a problem, give detailed info..........and be totally wrong.

So you smile, listen, and give them a time to call back. Then with them gone you start at ground zero and do the debug.

Have seen some horrible engineers and tool and die masters who were clueless as to what the problem was. Too often folks want to just grind and go.

Scary.

No doubt they post their findings on the web and smear a company that may not be of fault, or if there is a problem, misrepresent/misinform.

My findings on Taurus are first hand, across a decent time span, of some detail.

So bad, for so long..........now I won't touch any of their products, even if wearing nitrile gloves

 

[Hookeye]

Must admit I broke a Smith once.
300 grainers in a non endurance package 629.
Shooting buddy called Mr. Jinx from our office.
"Sorry about that, sounds like warranty work".
Cost me $5 to send it back, gun fixed, new box, letter apologizing for the problem.
Hunting season around the corner, got it back within 4 weeks.
I bought the gun used (minty) and informed them of that from the get go.
Trigger pivot broke. New pin, hammer, trigger, refinish, box.
5 bucks.

I don't shoot over 240 gr in older 29/629 and have not had a problem since (other rigs).

300's were just nasty anyway. 240's zing through my deer just fine.

 

[Stargazer65]

Old Dog said:

Do you guys whine when you get defective appliances (I bought a Whirlpool micro-wave oven that broke -- I didn't go on the internet complaining about it), automobiles that break while still under warranty, or any other consumer product that displays any flaws?

My question is: what message are you trying to get across by complaining about a specific product on the internet? And do you do this with EVERY other manufactured item you purchase that somehow isn't satisfactory? So does this particular manufacturer have a reputation for using screws that break?

Not defending this particular manufacturer, just wondering why people post these complaints on the internet ...

Because we have to complain first before we do anything else. It's just the way things are done. We can't circumvent the process.
Sheesh!

 

[Hookeye]

I don't own one.
So I'm not complaining

Just think it odd, that over a few yrs of more than casual observation (and a couple of actually selling them, interacting with customers) and taking a manufacturing/engineering eye at the overall mess of problems.............how some folks can still be champions of a certain brand.

But some folks think sending something back a few times makes them special.

And some shoot a box without issue, and put it in the closet.

Lots of folks do that with other brands too.

There's a lot of BS on the web and on the range and in the gunshops. Some of it is in a allocated areas of the gun cases.

 

[cdk8]

I've had much worse performance from Colt, S&W, HK, and Sig than with Taurus. BOTH in failures and in repairs. I've never been told of anyone who returned a Taurus, and got it back not repaired that "every gun that leaves here is perfect", like I was when I returned my USP for patterning instead of grouping. The gun came back with a new barrel, minus the o-ring. I called to get an o-ring, and that was what I was told.

I think it just depends on the specific gun someone gets and the specific people within the company one interacts with. With mass produced items, to a certain degree there is always some luck of the draw. I dont think such data exists to say definitively which makers have more issues with QC than others. With that said, while working at a range I observed that both new Smiths and Taurus revolvers seemed to have more frequent issue than Ruger wheel guns, and so I became a fan of the GP. So my personal preference is from observations rather than fact, and they may or may not be generalizable to the larger whole.

Like with any company, some employees are super awesome and others are giant D-bags. The quality of a customer service experience will have a huge impact on what that customer says about the experience and the company. I've always heard H&K customer service is abysmal, but the one time I needed service on a USP SD it was one of the best customer service experiences I have ever had. The guy I interacted with was great and it was likely luck of the draw that I got transferred to him when I called rather than another rep who was apathetic to the situation.

 

[orionengnr]

I wonder if all of the Taurus bashers are as critical of the poor quality of Smith & Wesson handguns? Google Smith & Wesson air weight cracked frames for example. S&W has turned out a lot of guns of poor quality over the years. Many more than Taurus.

Sorry, I just don't believe that.
I have owned at least 20 S&Ws (at least six were AirWeight/AirLight), and sent exactly one back (a 396 bought used; prior owner had used some sort of solvent that removed some of the silver paint/finish). S&W re-finished it and returned it on their dime.

I have seen multiple gun shop owners/employees stating that their shop no longer carries Taurus due to return rate or warranty issues.

Have you ever seen a shop that refused to carry S&W?
No? Me neither.

 

[BSA1]

Let's all bear in mind that the information posted on the Internet, discussion forums and Facebook is absolutely true and based on first hand observation or experience of the poster.

NOT!!!

The Internet is a wonderful tool but it is ripe with misinformation and lies. Anyone can post anything. Several of us have problems with Taurus guns some minor and others like mine that was so bad that they gave me a new replacement gun.

I am in the market for a lightweight J Frame revolver for EDC and have been looking at S&W Airweights. There are reports that the 637 frames cracking. It could be sour grapes by a few sore heads. However there are photographs on discussion forums such as Smith and Wesson clearly showing the crack.H

So I have to make a decision soon on whether to buy a 637, a different J Frame Model, Ruger LCR or another Taurus 85. Common rants like Taurus are a pos and I will never buy another one are a emotional outburst that does not provide any factual evidence or reason. There are enough factual evidence such as photographs on the Net to convince me to stay away from the 637. Taurus I am batting .500 first time out and 1,000 after the replacement gun. Ruger LCR I have no idea on. So it finally come down to paying my money and taking my chances.

 

[Old Fuff]

I am a strong proponent of pocket carry, and as such have gone through snubbies like Carter's Pills. This included several Taurus revolvers, none of which gave me any problems. And the model 85 AW is the only one with a conventional hammer spur that hasn't snagged during a draw.

In fairness to S&W, their J-frames have worked out well too, but if I get another one it will have an enclosed hammer. However they're several features the new .38 Special M&P Bodyguard has that caused me to drop it from consideration.

So on the next occasion I may try a Ruger LCR. It is butt-ugly, but reputed to have a better trigger pull then the competition, and has not attracted many negative reports on various popular forums. Unlike the fore mentioned S&W it doesn't require a special screwdriver bit to take it apart.

 

[Reloadron]

I bought a Taurus 327 snub in bi-tone a few years ago from a major online retailer. It's been mostly a safe queen in the box with a very low round count. This weekend I had it out shooting Federal American Eagle 100-gr factory ammo (all it's shot ever) and after shooting one cylinder, when the cylinder was opened the crane and cylinder fell out into the dirt.
Looks like the crane retainer screw sheared off in the sideplate. I put the cylinder back in and made sure it was pressed fully into position, and the cylinder free-spins. I don't know what happened to the cylinder stop, it is stuck down. Maybe a piece of the broken screw is in there.
Going to have to ship this basically brand new gun to Taurus and see how their world-class service holds up.
This gun has had not even one box of ammo through it. This is why I never put any gun into CCW rotation without shooting the heck out of it first.

START HERE.

A broken gun is a broken gun and any and all guns can break. My experience has been that Taurus is pretty good about their warranty work unless the gun has been severely abused. Make sure you get and complete Work Order Service Request.

Once Taurus has the gun and takes action post back how the experience was. Personally I don't own a Taurus. Some swear by them and others say they are problematic junk.

Ron

 

[Confederate]

I've had guns from makers such as Colt, Smith & Wesson, Beretta, H&K and Ruger that had parts that broke.

Of course. Nothing's perfect. But I've had several Rossis (Interarms) that have worked just fine. My experience with Taurus is that their 9mm Beretta clones have actually improved over the years. Back in the early 80s, the clones were okay from a reliability standpoint, but suffered from an inferior finish and accuracy. The clones now are, in my view, actually better than the Berettas. My stainless model groups very well and has a much better safety (drop & cock'n-lock). Their revolvers, OTOH, are junk. I bought several of their .38s and .357s, which were all high polish stainless guns, and the accuracy was horrible. I finally took some JHP bullets and dropped one into each chamber. In each one, the bullet fell through without catching. When shooting wadcutters the gun shot much better, because they were sized a bit bigger, but with JHPs they wouldn't group at all, but were all over the targets. And they were okay for shooting wadcutters, but not stellar. I got rid of all of them and got Rugers. Then, when the S&W 686 came out, I got one of those.

I'm amazed that the same company that puts out the Beretta clones is the same company that makes such poor revolvers. Beretta made a huge mistake selling their South American factories to Taurus. If Taurus pot as much work into outs revolvers as they do their Beretta clones, both Ruger and S&W would be looking over their collective shoulders by now. I don't know how modern Rossis are doing, as they're now made by Taurus, but I don't hear the same complaints about them.






Rossi .38

 

[JR47]

Over the years, I've collected 14 Taurus handguns. Some were sold by Interarms at the same time they were selling Rossi. The ONLY Taurus that I've sent back for repair was an older, blued, Model 85CH. I deliberately shot it loose using +P and +P+ ammunition. The gun was NOT rated for +P. This was the result of a bet between a S&W gun snob, and myself. He shot his Chief's Special, and I shot the Model85. The S&W was no longer safe to shoot at around 3,000 rounds. The Taurus began to spit lead at just over 5,000 rounds. I sent ti back to Taurus, and confessed what I had done, asking for an estimate on repairs. 6 weeks later, I got the gun back, rebuilt, and re-blued, for free.

Someone asked if there was a shop not stocking S&W revolvers? One here only special orders them. They keep a couple in the case, but refuse to stock them. This was ths hop that refused an order of 12 revolvers when all were found to have unacceptable timing.

I've worked over the decades in various shops in several states. What I've noticed is that, often, prejudices easily overcome even facts. It seems that every company has patches where their products hit a low point in QC. Right here we see examples of it in S&W revolvers, and those who accept the author's opinion for Taurus, but not for S&W.

I really don't care who makes the gun. Be it the late Willy Korth, or Charter Arms, you need to check the sample you're buying before you purchase it. Failing to do so usually leads to trouble, no matter the reputation of the company, or i's price.

 

[Bama Drifter]

Been into handguns for a couple of decades.
My dad a dealer, his buds all handgunners, some of thick wallet.
Seen a lot of stuff, shot a lot of stuff.
Worked in a decent shop (volume) and sold a lot of stuff.

Prev to that I worked engineering, so know a bit about how stuff is made, and customer service/complaints (real and bogus).

Yup, any manufacturer can slip up.

Taurus does often, and has for a long time.

Buy 'em if you want. Send it back a dozen times. I don't care. I do however dislike folks acting surprised when one has a problem (internet/information age), or others who try to blow smoke up my butt in telling me that it's just a rare occurrence and other companies screw up as much.

BS.

I concur w/ Hookeye and similar situation. At small gun shops & gun counter of LARGE outdoor chain, my arms dealer colleagues developed a refrain: "Friends don't let friends buy Taurus!" You may call me a gun snob, but the only return amongst Glock, Colt, S&W, Ruger pistols in MY vault was a shot out Ruger SBH. My advice to anyone wanting to buy Taurus as their first gun is to save up a few more months and make your second gun your FIRST.

For what it's worth I have cracked a slide on a pre-war Colt, but that was me being greedy and stupid, shooting reloads through a 100 year old gun. Don't have plans to whine to Colt about it either. YMMV

 

[Hookeye]

Had a nice customer that wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.
His new to reloading .45 Colts blew his Taurus Judge apart.
He played stupid, but we got the truth out of him (smoked it on the shop's indoor range).
Buddy sent it back for him, just to see what'd happen.
Nothing. Emails/calls.............nothing.
9 months go by and a box shows up. New Judge, no charge.
Now they took care of a customer that was 100% at fault.
That was mighty nice of them.
Or was it?
After all, they gave him another Taurus

 

[Hookeye]

BTW, ever hear of the blown up Ruger and Smith .44 story (was in ST or some other gun mag way back)?

You hear versions of it from time to time, gunshows, shops, on the web too.
Not much anymore.

Funny guy. Squirrel hunted with him and my dad proly 40 yrs ago.

Lots of BS out there, and even more on the web.
Some of us have actually seen what we relate.

Yup, saw 2 cracked smith airweights, both nickle plated. Seen 'em.
Seen a boat load of Taurus screwed up........shoulda put that boat at the bottom of the lake.

 

[Hookeye]

And with that I am done bashing Taurus.
Buy 'em if you want.
Might get a good one.
Don't act surprised if you don't.

 

[Bama Drifter]

Let's all bear in mind that the information posted on the Internet, discussion forums and Facebook is absolutely true and based on first hand observation or experience of the poster.

NOT!!!

The Internet is a wonderful tool but it is ripe with misinformation and lies. Anyone can post anything. Several of us have problems with Taurus guns some minor and others like mine that was so bad that they gave me a new replacement gun.

I am in the market for a lightweight J Frame revolver for EDC and have been looking at S&W Airweights. There are reports that the 637 frames cracking. It could be sour grapes by a few sore heads. However there are photographs on discussion forums such as Smith and Wesson clearly showing the crack.H

So I have to make a decision soon on whether to buy a 637, a different J Frame Model, Ruger LCR or another Taurus 85. Common rants like Taurus are a pos and I will never buy another one are a emotional outburst that does not provide any factual evidence or reason. There are enough factual evidence such as photographs on the Net to convince me to stay away from the 637. Taurus I am batting .500 first time out and 1,000 after the replacement gun. Ruger LCR I have no idea on. So it finally come down to paying my money and taking my chances.

For pocket snubbies, you can't go wrong w/ a Ruger LCR..... hear me out. The LARGE chain outdoor store that sells literally thousands of guns a year at their SoCal location went through piles of LCRs when those were the only wheel guns you could find in late 2013 -> summer 2014. I sold any .38/.357 we could get our hands on and amazingly the reported recoil for shooting .38+P in their .357 model was "Hey this ain't too bad". Zero out of 300 units sold were returned for warranty claims compared to >15% returns on Taurus/Rossi. Another plus is the world famous Ruger customer service, should you go on a masochistic binge shooting full power loads through it week in week out.
From first-hand experience I can tell you S&W doesn't give a d@rn about you, your gun, or your post-sale customer satisfaction. Unless you are an LEO rep talking about outfitting your town PD with Smith M&Ps they don't care. OK, rant over. Friends don't let friends buy Taurus!

 

[hemiram]

My first gun was a Taurus Model 83, in nickel. The only thing done well on that gun was the nickel plating. The barrel was totally messed up, with a break in the rifling (How is that possible?) in the middle, causing totally crazy amounts of leading. The timing was mile off, so it spit too. The cylinder was very rough, making it hard to get empties to come out without a struggle. On the first trip to Taurus, they fixed the timing issue, but they honed the chambers in the cylinder so much that cartridges would rattle when it was loaded. Taurus said there was nothing wrong with the barrel! I sent it back again, and it came back with a new cylinder and it was fine with regards to empties and timing, but they still denied there was anything wrong with the barrel. Six shots would leave huge amounts of lead that had to be pounded out, a Lewis Lead Remover wouldn't work as it would get stuck at the void in the rifling and just break. I sold the thing off, and resisted buying a Taurus for about 40 years, until I shot a friend's 809, and finally bit. And it was a dud too. A trip to Taurus accomplished nothing, and I sold it to a friend who is using it as a way to teach himself to work on guns. He found a complete slide assembly and mixing and matching parts, and a little filing here and there has it ALMOST reliable enough to carry now.

I'm done. No more Taurus.

 

[9mmforMe]

My first handgun was a Taurus .357 model 669, and I loved it...performed very well. This was back in 1992. I then purchased 2 stainless model 85s in .38 special back in 1995 and they had multiple problems with minimal rounds shot (transfer bar stuck, firing pin would not retract). I finally got one of the 85s replaced after going back and forth 3 times. This was highly disappointing.

I'm aware that all mechanical devices will need repair from time to time, but this really soured me on Tauri and at this point I will not buy another (I have not had the extensive problems with ANY other manufacturer). I just bought a new Rossi which is part of brazil tech, but separate from Taurus designs. Have had very good experiences with the Rossi, fit and finish is quite good and no mechanical problems at all. I would imagine if someone had similar problems with their Ruger or S&W that they would feel equally upset and perhaps go to another brand for satisfaction. Sometimes it is indeed a crapshoot but IMO Taurus simply has lesser quality firearms, this seems to fluctuate over the course of decades as well as their quality of customer service.

 

[JR47]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but how many of these guns were purchased by people who never checked them?

I've passed by a LOT of guns that were simply not right, and that included Sigs, Glocks, Colts, S&W, and on and on. Some were cosmetic issues, some were mechanical issues. Had I not performed a basic examination ALL of them would have been my fault for being so careless.

I've mentioned the dozen S&W revolvers returned by a local shop in 2014, when NONE of them exhibited proper timing. I've seen a number of Glocks with cosmetic issues out of the box recently, and Colts that looked like they were made using a hammer and chisel. I've had terrible CS issues with HK.

Trust me, if you buy a gun with a bad barrel, like described in the above post, you weren't doing YOUR part.

Even worse, for all of those experts who worked shops, didn't anyone even bother to look over the gun when entering it into the Bound Book? A competent shop examines the product before putting it out for sale. Some of the issues described would have been obvious when the serial numbers were verified by anyone who chose to look.