Taurus public defender

[littlebluevette]

What is this Taurus public defender weapon? I've never heard of it before and saw one for sale on the Internet. Seems like it would break your wrist if you fire it?

 

[theicemanmpls]

I think I could throw one about 25 feet with enough power and accuracy to hurt. It looks like it could make a good garden trowel.

IMHO, i think this, and the judge are novelty guns. Want a .45? get a SAA. Want a .410? Get an H&R.

 

[Dogbite]

Its just another version of the Taurus Judge. It will not hurt you to shoot it. Its no big deal. I think its novelty as well. Why hamper yourself if you have to shoot further than 30 ft or so? Eh, its not for me.

 

[MICHAEL T]

Over sized junk that does nothing well . Get a 45 pistol and a 410 shotgun . Then you will have 2 that work as they should.

 

[bassdogs]

Here we go again. Know it alls who don't own one, don't like them, have their own favorite banger, and just like to rain on someone elses parade. My comment is if you don't like them, don't buy one. I on the other hand own one and have never regretted owning it. Shoots great, 410 has a deadly pattern at SD ranges and 45HP are as accurate as any 2 1/2" barreled revolver.

Now make up your own mind. Go to a range and shoot one. Give it a go and don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion, including mine.

 

[Nushif]

Now make up your own mind. Go to a range and shoot one. Give it a go and don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion, including mine.

Best part of this thread.

 

[Brian Williams]

Shoots great, 410 has a deadly pattern at SD ranges

But what is the penetration depth?

 

[Lawdawg45]

What is this Taurus public defender weapon? I've never heard of it before and saw one for sale on the Internet. Seams like it would break your wrist if you fire it?

Well, so far it's the topic of about a half dozen threads on here, and none of them positive.

LD

 

[bassdogs]

You can get scientific about penetration or you can shoot at a 2x6 while you're at the range. Again I could tell you my results, but go to the range or your back yard and experiment. I can say pretty confidently that you will come away confident that no one will want to be on the receiving end. Is it a weapon for LE or a security guard at a secure facility of some sort, NO!! Is it a reliable point and shoot weapon that can easily be carried in a purse or concealed under a jacket.

And remember a hit or 2 or 3 or 4 balls is emminently more damaging than a miss from a 38, 9, or whatever as the shot is a near miss. Make no mistake the Public Defender is a reliable and deadly weapon. Mine resides in the console of my wife's vehicle.

 

[Sam1911]

You can get scientific about penetration or you can shoot at a 2x6 while you're at the range.

That's awesome! Why be scientific? Splintered spruce softwood looks so impressive!

And remember a hit or 2 or 3 or 4 balls is emminently more damaging than a miss from a 38, 9, or whatever as the shot is a near miss.

Right. And a hit with a .38, 9, or whatever is emminently more damaging than a miss with 2 or 3 or 4 balls. No reason at all to believe that you'd be more accurate with a large heavy shot-revolver than with a service sidearm firing single projectiles to point-of-aim.

Unless you beleive the "cone of death" theory that spread of shot makes up for poor aiming.

 

[subdude]

Now make up your own mind. Go to a range and shoot one. Give it a go and don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion, including mine.
Best part of this thread.

Amen to that.

 

[bassdogs]

Sam we've argued that before. The first couple of shots in a quick point and shoot situation by the majority of regular people are misses. That cone of whatever you call it without a doubt improves the odds of a hit with the first couple of rounds. Thats why my PD is loaded with 2 buck and then the rest 45HP. You have made it clear that you are a traditionalist [which you will take issue with] but I have to respectively dissaggree with you on this weapon. I think it is somewhat difficult for me to believe that you can't see the possibility that a person who I am describing would have a better chance with a hit using this weapon.

As far as the penetration issue, I have to go back to your own argument that the purpose of lethal force is to stop the threat. If something will penetrate 1 1/2" of pine, I'm ok with the fact that it might not fully defeat a threat. A hit with a 410 buck ball will serve that purpose better than a miss from a 44mag or anything down the spectrum. I know you think everyone should be able to hit what they aim at. In truth and proven time after time, there is a big difference between a paper target that isn't posing you a threat and one that is. Yes I suggest a scientific test of the 10 or 12 inches of penetration that is suggested to insure an end to the threat is not what is necessary for the usefulness of a weapon.

Are you arguing this as a "master of the shooting" sport or as a moderator who is charged with keeping all of us "students" enlightened? I think there is room for considering my point of view without challenging the purest opinion that you or others might have.

 

[littlebluevette]

Here we go again. Know it alls who don't own one, don't like them, have their own favorite banger, and just like to rain on someone elses parade. My comment is if you don't like them, don't buy one. I on the other hand own one and have never regretted owning it. Shoots great, 410 has a deadly pattern at SD ranges and 45HP are as accurate as any 2 1/2" barreled revolver.

Now make up your own mind. Go to a range and shoot one. Give it a go and don't pay any attention to anyone else's opinion, including mine.

last thing I need is another gun but that thing really has perked my interest. It looks like one bad ass gun the perfect tool to fix the squirrel problem we have at our bird feeders.

 

[bassdogs]

I support the PD for a lot of things, but even with bird shot, I think you will kill a lot more than just the squirrels at the feeders. At 20 yards the pattern with birdshot will be pretty big and glass and plastic will probably die. Might work if you scare them off the feeder and take a shot at them as they run across the yard. A 410 long gun would probably handle this better.

You ask the initial question about the public defender, hope we have pointed you in the right direction. That would be go to the range and shoot one. The only problem I see is that these things are still quite popular and a used one is hard to find and holding value. I paid $450 for mine new in SSteel.

 

[littlebluevette]

Thanks for your help. I am going to take a look at one in person.

 

[Guillermo]

A bad 45 and an absolutely horrid shotgun.

Still, it looks like a a great toy.

I watched Jerry Miculek shooting skeet with the S&W version on TV. (Impossible Shots?)

The range was very short but it looked like a hoot!!!

 

[Sam1911]

Sam we've argued that before. The first couple of shots in a quick point and shoot situation by the majority of regular people are misses. That cone of whatever you call it without a doubt improves the odds of a hit with the first couple of rounds.

I am utterly unconvinced that if a person is not on-target with a solid projectile, they will be close enough to on-target for one of these small balls to score a telling hit.

And...if you're right and these first shots won't be on target, you just dramatically increased the number of inaccurate (and diverging!) projectiles you just launched into public. Remember you are responsible for every one.

You have made it clear that you are a traditionalist [which you will take issue with]

Ha ha! Everyone's a traditionalist compared to something...and wildly non-conformist compared to other things. I do what I see works, and I study what knowledgeable people who's study of these matters far exceeds my own have to say about these issues.

I think it is somewhat difficult for me to believe that you can't see the possibility that a person who I am describing would have a better chance with a hit using this weapon.

Maybe I just see too many people shoot to believe this is the answer to their threat engagement problems. At common engagement distances a miss with a 9mm or .45 looks just like a miss with a .410 shotshell. Not enough spread at close range to help, too much spread at longer range to be worthwhile.

And, as I said before, I do not relish the idea that a) we should accept that several shots will head off into spectators, or that b) making those first two shots actually scatter six or eight separate projectiles is BETTER.

Are you arguing this as a "master of the shooting" sport or as a moderator who is charged with keeping all of us "students" enlightened? I think there is room for considering my point of view without challenging the purest opinion that you or others might have.

What kind of talk is that? I'm arguing this as a student of self-defense shooting and of those enlightened individuals who live and breathe what works in real life. My opinion, based on my study and practice is that a shotshell-revolver is a false promise. Held up, incorrectly as a hardware solution to what is clearly a training problem. It carries serious drawbacks which are not overcome by any of the benefits it is claimed to possess.

We should not be telling people, "Well you're new at this and not very good, but if you use this special gun it will help alleviate your lack of skill." If it would work as claimed and actually increase hit probability and deliver reliable compelling wounds, it would do so for EVERYONE, not just the newbie and the unskilled. It's benefits would appeal and apply to all. This is clearly not the case.

 

[Guillermo]

Sam is 100% right.

improves the odds of a hit with the first couple of rounds

so would a water hose, but like the judge, it ain't gonna stop anything with shot.

Perhaps a slug would have some effectiveness.

 

[bassdogs]

again your concern about errant shot would be of value if you expressed the same concern about all who load a 9 with 18 rounds and a revolver with multi speed loads. The truth is that in a typically spontanous SD situation, there are more misses than hits. On one post there is mention of not effective at range but also that the cone is not significant at typical SD range. At 7 yards the spread from the shot is 3 - 5 inches. My point again is that a 3 inch miss with a pistol round could be a hit with the buck. Maybe just something instead of nothing, but nothing from anything isn't going to stop anything.

An what kind of talk is that?? Come on, you give me no credit for what I have said. I have clearly indicated that the Judge is not a Be All or End all gun that you would be likely to consider if you are a well practiced and pinpoint accurate shooter. I can only assume that in your world the only acceptable answer is that your right to self defense only comes with a commmitment of a certain amount of range time and passing a test or even better a combat course.

I respectively dissagree and again must assert everyones right to self defense. I therefore suggest that a newbe as you call them [a competent but less schooled person in my world] might [and I stress might] be well served by selecting a Judge and that the bystanders might also be at less risk than if that same person were to empty a full mag of 9's in the general direction of the threat.

Lets go private.

 

[skidder]

What about the 45? You still can't find a new SD 45 for the price of the PD. I'm not promoting the Judge, but I am promoting my cheapskateness. Are they worth buying just for the 45 aspect of the gun (and maybe a rattlesnake here and there)?

 

[-eaux-]

If something will penetrate 1 1/2" of pine, I'm ok with the fact that it might not fully defeat a threat.

that right there completely absolved me of listening to anything else you have to say.
If it "might not fully defeat a threat", it surely isn't what's riding in my wife's console.

If X doesn't need to be fully defeated, it isn't time for me to engage with a weapon. If X DOES need to be fully defeated, I must engage in a manner to fully defeat X ASAP. Therefore I'll rely upon shotgun shells in a shotgun or pistol shells in a pistol and spend the time to be proficient with both.

 

[Sam1911]

again your concern about errant shot would be of value if you expressed the same concern about all who load a 9 with 18 rounds and a revolver with multi speed loads.

Eh, what? You said "the first couple of shots...are misses." Not a whole mag full and certainly not three revolver reloads full! And I agree with you. From long experience I know that the first few shots are the ones that are most likely to miss. I still don't see how launching more projectiles per (missed) shot is not a huge liability.

The truth is that in a typically spontaneous SD situation, there are more misses than hits. On one post there is mention of not effective at range but also that the cone is not significant at typical SD range. At 7 yards the spread from the shot is 3 - 5 inches. My point again is that a 3 inch miss with a pistol round could be a hit with the buck. Maybe just something instead of nothing, but nothing from anything isn't going to stop anything.

I watch shooters shoot a lot. I see what you are saying, but it doesn't match with my experience. A well-placed single projectile misses clean. Your 3-5" spread is of course really a 1.5"-2.5" radius of error -- at best. But that's pretending that the Judge in effect fires a 3"-5" diameter bullet -- in other words, that everything in that 1.5-2.5" radius is equally impacted. But that's not the case. You're firing a pattern of small projectiles. Your near miss is possibly now turned into a peripheral strike at the very edge of the attacker -- a bare flesh wound -- maybe -- with a tiny, ineffectual projectile, equivalent to a shot with a .32 ACP. In the fleshy part of the arm or whatever, again.

I do not count that as a worthwhile gain when compared to the loss of a more compact, more ergonomic, major caliber sidearm with more rounds on tap. And I think that many new/inexperienced shooters get sucked into that way of thinking by Taurus' slick (and disingenuous) marketing thinking that "well, any hit is a good hit..." and as a conclusion that's one that really lives up to the famous sig line definition of a conclusion as "a convenient place to stop thinking."

Come on, you give me no credit for what I have said. I have clearly indicated that the Judge is not a Be All or End all gun that you would be likely to consider if you are a well practiced and pinpoint accurate shooter.

Here we run into an oddly common logical fallacy, persistent on this forum and probably others. It says, roughly, "The experts do this...but I'm no expert, that rule/technique/principle doesn't apply to me." In other words, a well-practiced and competent shooter wouldn't use this gun, but I'm not that good a shooter so it will help me by making up for some of my inaccuracy." That's not how it works. As I said before, if it works for you, it will work for ANYONE. If it was a benefit, it would be of benefit to accomplished shooters as well. It isn't like becoming a better shooter makes the principles you apply and the task you're accomplishing different. It's all the same thing. You're trying to compensate for lack of skill by using a gun that does nothing better -- and a lot worse -- than the gun an "accomplished" shooter would use. It is a false hope.

I can only assume that in your world the only acceptable answer is that your right to self defense only comes with a commitment of a certain amount of range time and passing a test or even better a combat course.

Oh no. If you think that, then I invite you to search on every one of the dozens of threads which have covered that question. I have never, once, come down on the side of any required standard or training in order to possess or carry the tools of self defense. That is a right. Your success or failure and/or effects on bystanders will be judged in various ways, and a prudent person would attempt to become as skilled as possible before carrying and/or using a gun in public, but the right exists for all.

I therefore suggest that a newbe as you call them [a competent but less schooled person in my world] might [and I stress might] be well served by selecting a Judge and that the bystanders might also be at less risk than if that same person were to empty a full mag of 9's in the general direction of the threat.

A false dichotomy. No one's talking about firing a whole magazine full of 9mm. The risk to bystanders was introduced by your comment that you'd expect to miss the first two shots but that one or two pellets might hit the bad guy. (Meaning 6-8 hit something else!)

Lets go private.

Answered via PM.

 

[Sam1911]

What about the 45? You still can't find a new SD 45 for the price of the PD. I'm not promoting the Judge, but I am promoting my cheapskateness. Are they worth buying just for the 45 aspect of the gun (and maybe a rattlesnake here and there)?

There's plenty of better firearms from which to launch a .45. You don't need to get a hugely oversized one with a very long free-bore (empty part of the chamber in this case) for the slug to rattle down before it gets to the rifling.

 

[KodiakBeer]

There's been a couple million deer killed with buckshot so it strikes me a slightly ludicrous to say 00 or 000 buck won't kill at close range. Come to think of it, "Buck and Ball" was a popular load in the civil war and buckshot is a popular law enforcement load even today.

A Judge or Governor wouldn't be my choice as a defensive weapon, but four or five 000 buckshot striking somebody in the chest from a single pull of the trigger is nothing to be sneezed at.

 

[MCgunner]

IMHO, i think this, and the judge are novelty guns. Want a .45? get a SAA. Want a .410? Get an H&R.

I do have a 10" contender barrel that's fun, if sorta useless. It'll take game to 20-25 yards or so, but it's got a choke that screws on that also stops the shot cup rotation as it leaves the barrel. It's fun to fart around with, but not something I actually pick to do anything other than go have some fun. Neat thing about the contender, too, it's just one of my barrels.

The Judge in general and the PD in particular are gimmicks to the unknowing, unwise gun buyer IMHO. JMHO, though....just another "internet expert" . If you think you need it, hey, it's YOUR money. I say the same for the Governor (Smith and Wesson) and the Thunder Five that started all this .410 revolver BS.

I can see these things as apartment defense and I ain't sayin' .410 00 or 000 is useless. I sure don't wanna get hit with it. I just don't see how it's the miraculous point in the general direction and shoot gun that some seem to think it is. It's as if someone knows that they can't hit the side of a barn from inside the barn with a .38, so they think the hardware will cure there software problem.

I think some just think it's cool or fun or whatever. Like I say, it's your money. I shoot cap and ball for fun. Some think that's a boring waste of money. To each his own.