Taurus User Recognition

[megatronrules]

What a load of crap I mean this is stupid I can see it now "we need these guns so a child can't shoot his/her brother or sister where does it end? I feel guns shoulden't use any fancey gadets to work that can and probably will fail at the worse possible moment. I can't believe a gun maker would even want to make a gun like this safety is between the ears guys not built in to the gun. What if these types of guns were made mandatory? how long you think it will be before our "obsolete dangerous unsafe" guns were rendered illegel? I don't mean to rant guys but just how I feel I woulden't own this gun for any reason.

 

[chaim]

What you're saying is that you want them to be the second company on the market with a "smart gun," right?

Sort of. What I'd really prefer is that no one make one as long as the current laws are on the books in MD and NJ. Too bad too, if MD and NJ didn't have the mandatory smart gun law, and if the technology could ever be perfected it could do a lot about cops getting killed with their own guns when their guns get snatched. I have nothing wrong with the free market system- if we are free to choose it would be great if police buyers and some regular citizens who'd prefer a smart gun can choose one. However, where the "free" part has been taken away and smart guns become mandatory once available I'd rather no one made them available.

Will I actually boycott Taurus? I don't know. How much thought went into the MD and NJ laws? Are they doing this despite being fully aware that this will trigger a wide ranging gun ban in those states? Also, Colt is making them, I'm not sure but I'm under the impression S&W is, eventually half the gunmakers out there probably will be working on them. You can't boycott everyone. I must say that I am a bit disappointed as Taurus has always been strong on RKBA (maybe if I should give anyone the benefit of the doubt I should give it to them).

My main hope is that the law will be recinded before there are any working "smart guns" on the market.

It could happen (at least in MD). This state is actually becoming a bit more conservative. Ehrlich, a Republican, won the governor's race last time around (not a landslide but he won it with a comfortable margin). Despite the best efforts from the Calvert Street Democratic Club (otherwise known as the Baltimore Sun newspaper), a huge (inherited) deficit requiring huge cuts in services and gov't spending, and a slow ecomomy (a nationwide problem effecting us too) he is very popular with most Marylanders. While still not the majority, the voting trends over the past decade or so in many parts of Maryland has seen increased numbers of Republicans being elected to local, statewide and even national posts. Heck, there is even a chance that MD may go for Bush in 2004. We may very well have an environment in this state within just a few years where we may be able to roll back some of the draconian laws we have here, including the "smart gun law".

Heck, the most recent gun bill to pass in our state legislature was to loosen restrictions on CCW permits so that you could carry where alcohol was sold for off-premises consumption. Bars & schools are next.

Hmm, while I'm stuck here in MD for the next couple years (most likely), I still would like to leave (esp. if some of my prognostications above don't come true). How is the job market in TN ? I know Memphis has a pretty strong Orthodox Jewish community.

 

[Baba Louie]

Gosh, I like to take family, friends and newbies out shooting quite often, using my various handguns...

Guess that'll be a thing of the past eh?

It never rains here in the desert, (slight sarcasm) but I do remember going shooting with Dad and my Uncles back in MO... in pouring rain... yeah we stayed out and shot till we were out of the ammo we'd brought... everything was wet through and through, water in the ammo cans, water in the boots, water everywhere... I've never known electronic devices to be affected by water or mud... have you?

Ever have some gizmo's power source die on ya? Never happened to me either...

And like Tamara said, I've never been shooting with gloves on either...

Oughta be interesting Tom.

Here's hoping that Taurus doesn't copywrite or patent their intellectual design, thus running the risk of being the Only Company to have such a great newfangled mousetrap, which might eliminate any competition and become the sole handgun manufacturer for the new age east coast legislative safe shooters club.

Beta versions now on sale for only $2,500.00 each on discount (MSRP of $3750.00)... Taurus' Lifetime Guarantee? Taurus guarantees your life with them, so 75% of the price is for the insurance policy to pay to your beneficiaries in case something, uh, awkward, happens and you end up with a case of terminated self-defense and buried 6 feet deep...

And what about getting that special replacement part should it cause failure at an awkward moment? Eh Taurus?... Just send the defective part in for free replacement... if you're still alive. Oh, only the original purchaser can do that... and he's dead. Sorry. Next.

Lawyers are gonna love it, I can see that right now.

Adios

 

[bquinlan]

I'm surprised by the negative reactions here.

First off, the Metal Storm technology is potentially very useful stuff and I'm glad to see someone trying to bring it to market in a practical form. Electronics are actually far more reliable than complex mechanical devices...like autoloaders. The new system should provide us with simpler, tougher, and more reliable firearms.

Second, biometrics, like firearms, are a neutral technology. The question is how they are used and by whom. If we allow or legislators to pass bad laws that is our fault.

Finally, all of the biometric systems I've seen are designed to store multiple patterns, often quite a few of them. Anyone with sense is going to program the gun to work for either hand and for anyone else in the household who shoots. If you take someone shooting you temporarily program it to recognize your guest.

--Bob Q

 

[forquidder]

Being lead down the Garden State Pathway?

Tom,

I had a few more things to discuss to flesh out my arguement concerning the new "smart gun" technology but was disconnected.
I realize that the laws in certain states have already been passed regarding smart guns being the only ones legal to sell in year such and such. I also see Taurus targeting that market and producing guns for sale in those states. My arguement is that this new technology will be all that is needed for other states to enact similar legislation and the dominoes will begin to fall. After a certain amount of time has passed and the smart gun propogandists distort the truth enough that the average American votes to outlaw mechanical guns in favor of these new guns, the antigunners start with a clean slate and a new way to begin gun registration People will be forced to buy an overpriced gun and the politicians will be able to legislate whatever hoops they want for us to jump through to get it. After all it is for the children. You know they are rubbing their hands together over this one. This technology is inspired by antigunners.

My arguement is that I don't accept the "inevitability" of this path we are being lead down. In the past I would have accepted this as the way things are but in the last decade or so I've begun to think more like an American than a socialist. I look at the political landscape today and I see a shift from the liberal/socialist agenda that we have been forced to consume over the past forty years. I see Al Gore being defeated due in large part to gun owners. I see a California Governor being recalled and his "diversity and tolerance at all costs" being rejected in favor of the more traditional, common sense values that made this country great.
When people are repressed long enough they will throw off that yoke in favor of Liberty which I feel is beginning to happen.
Taurus, rather than leading the charge for smartguns and accepting the "inevitability" of this happening, could be leading the charge to basically starve these people out in states which have passed this legislation for smartguns without the technology even being available. Refusing to do business there due to the repressive government control would in my mind would be more the way to go. Basically give them what they really want rather than pander to their crazy interests.
When the law abiding people are sufficiently starved out of their choices in firearms while the gangbangers and thugs basically have anything they want, they will become fed up enough to do one of two things. Move out of the state or vote the gungrabbers out of office and put an end to the insanity.
In my opinion, Taurus is opening up another Pandoras' box of new gun legislation that will take another few decades to play out before people realize that it too doesn't work.
If Taurus were to take a principled stand along the lines of "we won't be lead in our technology development by anti gun politicians" I would probably go out and buy a couple of Taurus firearms even though I don't need them.
I realize that Taurus has done alot of good for firearms owners but I'm afraid that for me at least, Bob came across today as a man more concerned with the bottom line than the liberty and freedom of gun owning Americans.
I reject the idea that gun technology is basically the same today as it was 100 years ago and that we need to advance it. I also reject the " if we don't do it someone else will" arguement. To advance it at the cost of liberty is a bad idea. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I'm sure Taurus is commited to this and it will come to pass. I guess I'll just have to put my faith in the American people and hope that the above scenarios don't play out.

 

[BobHAJ]

Guntalk radio

Boy this was a heated and emotional discussion on Guntalk on Sunday. I didn't like the idea one bit. One thing that struck me though while listening to Bob Morrison is that I don't think he really understands how much we are against this type of technology. But that being said there is probably only one way that they stop developing this type of firearm is if it doesn't make money or if, because of this, Taurus see a drop in their bottom line.
I'm talking with my pocketbook for now.

BobHAJ

 

[denfoote]

Well, we caused one gun company to change. It's time to rap another across the knuckles!!

I notice from perusing their website that there is no snail or e-mail address with which to express our displeasure with their idiotic adventure!! They have insulated themselves well from the storm they know is coming!!
Let the boycott begin!!

 

[Guntalk]

Re: Taurus has no contact info??????

It took me three seconds to find the contact info for Taurus on its web site.

Sometime I wonder about some folks. . . .

But then, a lot of gun owners have already shown that they are much quicker to attack gun owner groups and gun companies than they are to get involved in fighting gun control. Rather than research, examine, listen, and try to find out what's gong on, they just attack others who love shooting and support the shooting sports.

Sigh.

Here's the link.

http://www.taurususa.com/customercare/contact.cfm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Call your Customer Service Team when you have questions or are seeking product advice. Their knowledge of the firearm industry and your past purchase history allows them to make the best possible product recommendations for you.

Phone: (305) 624-1115

Fax: (305) 624-1126

For comments regarding this web site please contact [email protected]. Please note that customer service questions cannot be answered using this email.

Please fill out our Customer Care Survey to help us maintain our high level of customer service and to allow us to maintain your level of satisfaction.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Guntalk]

OK. Take the poll about user recognition.

Several participants on the chat room during the radio show yesterday suggested this is a good topic for the latest poll on Gun Talk, so I have set it up. I will make this poll available to the entire firearms industry, so now is your chance to tell 'em how you feel. Feel free to cross-post this to other web sites.

http://guntalk.com

Here's the question:

"Taurus Firearms announced it is working with two firms to research the concept of an electronically-fired handgun which features individual user recognition. How to you feel about a gun which fires only when an authorized user is holding it?"

Note, I couldn't include ALL the possible responses, but tried to cover the range.

 

[sm]

I'm another totally against this technology. I'm also against any form of gun control period.

I'm skeptical and not trusting of gummit. My SS card states clearly "not for identification purposes", recall the arguments about the use will 'not be used in a negative manner", recall many , including those whom lives were touched by the Holocaust about "issusing numbers"?.

Micro chips implanted in pets to find when lost pulls at heartstrings. Then the human micro chip implants to find your children, add medical info for grandparents if found uncouncious.

If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck...and has a band that reads "we are the gummit and here to help"...its is control.

Sorry we can't ask the Aushwitz community about showers...rinsed, washed, patted dry, and sent to ovens.

Big Brother uses various disguises, and psych to lure.

At least a pedophile offering candy to a kid is honest about his intentions, that's both sad and sick to even have to consider.

 

[clubsoda22]

I'll buy one if the electronic caseless system allows 3000rpm 3 round bursts.

 

[mtnbkr]

Well, we caused one gun company to change

We did? Which one is that?

How many gun companies are we boycotting today? I can only think of Ruger, S&W, and now Taurus. I wouldn't want to slip up and buy something from the commiefascisttraitoranti2ndamendmentbigot companies that are allied with sarahbradyVPCDisneyClintonUnitedNations gun grabbers.

We do more damange to ourselves than the gun grabbers do.

Chris

 

[Highland Ranger]

The show?

Missed the show yesterday, can anyone give a summary?

 

[forquidder]

Opinion

Tom,

Do you have an opinion on the possible political ramifications if this decision by Taurus comes to fruition? Any unintentional or intentional consequences you're worried about when this thing happens? I'm drawing the conclusion that you are in favor of the decision from what I've heard and read but I haven't heard you elaborate your position. Would you care to fill us in? Thanks.

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Gun Talk Poll

Ow!

This move only helps the gun banning crowd, and I will refuse to buy ANY products from any gun company which works on this concept.
24 - 77%
I hate the idea, would never buy such a gun, and will buy more mechanical guns now to "stock up." 6 - 19%
I can't really vote. I need more information on the technology, how it works, and why this is being done. 1 - 3%
I don't like the idea, but I guess it is inevitable, since some states are requiring it.. 0 - 0%
This is a much-needed move to make guns safer 0 - 0%
31 total vote

 

[V-fib]

Umm... Mr BG could you hold on for just a second while my gun reboots?
I seem to be having a little problem here. Thanks much!

 

[Guntalk]

>>Missed the show yesterday, can anyone give a summary?<<

You can actually listen to the show. Go to www.guntalk.com and click on ARCHIVES. The Taurus segment is the third hour of the show.

Forquidder, I did not mean to give the impression that I'm in favor it this. I hate that it is coming. I do, however, think it is, in fact, coming, in some form or other.

That does not mean I think it will be required. I sure hope not. BUT . . . if you live in N.J., it is, in fact, required, as soon as the technology is there. Someone will come up with the technology. Taurus takes the position that we are better off having a company with real handgun experience do this than just some geeky technology company. And, Bob Morrison (C.E.O. of Taurus) is upfront in saying there is a profit motive, also.

I like my 1911s and my revolvers, and I consider them plenty safe.

If I gave the impression I favor this move, perhaps it was because I was being polite, and trying to bring out as many aspects of this as possible in the limited time available.

There is, it seems, a lot of misunderstanding on what this is, what it does, how it works, etc. Those commenting on it without having listened to Bob Morrison explain it are at a disadvantage, I think.

Remember, it's still a technology being researched. It is not a product.

 

[Baba Louie]

It is not a product.

Yet.

Once it is, you can bet your sweet bippy that ALL of the legislaters will jump on it like a chicken on a June bug. Hope they don't then outlaw old tech guns and do the UK/Aus buyback scam...

I could be wrong... But as Garth said in Waynes World I, "We fear Change"

Adios

 

[Highland Ranger]

In a gunshop today . . .

I live in NJ - was in a gun store today - my brother bought a SIG P220.

Number of folks were talking about Taurus and how if they had their way, the handgun case would hold just 1 gun - a $2500 Taurus Biometric Electronic whiz bang gun.

And according to the Taurus CEO - they expect to have a WORKING PROTOTYPE within one year.

(Thanks Tom - I downloaded the show and listened to it, wish we got it up here in North Jersey)

Guy behind the counter said he might as well send all the Tauri back because just like way back when with the S&W situation, NO ONE will be buying a Taurus.

I realize that the Smartgun law is a product of this crazy state and that perhaps Maryland and New York and maybe California will follow suit at some time . . . . but please boycott Taurus products.

Companies are in business to make money and Taurus wants that gun show case with one gun in it and plenty of markup. That's our free market economy, I have no delusions about big corporations and won't bother with words like soul-less etc.

Let's $how them why this is a bad business decision - boycott Taurus!

 

[Highland Ranger]

LEO's exempt

. . .and if the technology could ever be perfected it could do a lot about cops getting killed with their own guns when their guns get snatched . . .

But LE is specifically exempt from the law . . . hmmmm . . . . all men created equal but if you are an LEO you can have a firearm that works without w/o batteries but I can't? I get the ray gun?

Smartgun laws are another gun grab, plain and simple.

Boycott Taurus!

 

[AnklePocket]

I live in New Jersey where the entire culture is "anti-gun" due to 35 years of politicians using the issue to scare people into voting Democrat. It's even scared Republicans into being Democrats.
I've fought the battle and it gets real old real fast. I've got a theory that I promised my wife that I'll never again repeat so I must honor that request.
Seems like the only (and maybe the most effective) recourse is to move. To fight for real is a tremendous sacrifice and I'm not sure that it's worth it. If you really develop an true understanding of New Jersey politics you will know that the desired result is near impossible. The remote chance of restoring Constitutional Rights will only be initiated by a total change of political climate over time and Taurus just took us a tremendous step backwards.
I will never buy or recommend a Taurus product ever for any reason and nothing will ever change that condition. Taurus has crossed the line and passed the point of no return.

 

[forquidder]

Thanks Tom for stating your position on this subject.
This would be excellent technology if it were being developed under different circumstances. Driven by the free market and progress in firearms evolution would be one thing.
A technology which is being developed where bureaucrats have already passed legislation for compliance just gives me a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.
It seems we have been winning a few battles of late.
I have a bad feeling about this one.

 

[chaim]

Here are the Guntalk poll results as of 3:42AM Eastern Time on Dec 3:

This move only helps the gun banning crowd, and I will refuse to buy ANY products from any gun company which works on this concept. 439 - 91%
I hate the idea, would never buy such a gun, and will buy more mechanical guns now to "stock up." 33 - 6%
I can't really vote. I need more information on the technology, how it works, and why this is being done. 6 - 1%
I don't like the idea, but I guess it is inevitable, since some states are requiring it.. 1 - 0%
This is a much-needed move to make guns safer 1 - 0%

480 total votes

Go to http://guntalk.com/ and vote if you haven't yet. If the numbers get really good (4 or more figures) maybe Taurus will rethink this (one can hope).

 

[AnklePocket]

Add to my boycott any shop that sells any Taurus products, new or used.

 

[whoami]

Seems like the only (and maybe the most effective) recourse is to move. To fight for real is a tremendous sacrifice and I'm not sure that it's worth it. If you really develop an true understanding of New Jersey politics you will know that the desired result is near impossible. The remote chance of restoring Constitutional Rights will only be initiated by a total change of political climate over time and Taurus just took us a tremendous step backwards.

The most eye-opening thing I ever did with regards to NJ politics was to have a conversation with someone who clerked for the Assembly down in Trenton. I don't think that most NJ gun owners realize just how little their opinions mean to the elected representatives of this state, and just how little care there is for gun rights in general. It is a machine down there, pure and simple, down to the very walls. And it will chew you up and spit you out, especially if you're talking anything firearm that doesn't sound like a VPC sound byte.

It's kinda sad...how much myself and a number of my gun owning associates echo your exact sentiments. I've spent the past three months hunting down properties in SE Pennsy, and I intend to get out as soon as I'm able.

I've got no beef with Taurus for wanting to develop this tech. My beef is that by specifically associating themselves with the NJIT project (which wouldn't exist without this disgusting law), they are by their actions if not words stating clearly that they not only support the law, but they also support the legislature who passed such a law. That is something I cannot accept, and thus Taurus will not see so much as a single penny from my pockets.