Redlg155
Member
Fellow Shooters,
Recently I had an opportunity to wring out two muzzle loaders new to me, the Winchester Apex and the TC Encore. Both rifles will be used in an upcoming Sambar Deer hunt this Tuesday. With a bit of luck I'll get to see the performance of T/C Arms 250 grain Shockwave bullet and Hornady's 300 grain XTP bullet on the 500 plus pound deer. Perhaps I'll even be lucky enough to slay a few hogs as well!
Both rifles are "sparked" by 209 primers and both tested were in .50 cal. Both TC and Winchester also offer a .45 cal rifle as well.
Now on to the review. I'll try to review both models based on category.
First comes my pet rifle, the TC Encore 209x50. For those not familiar with the look of the rifle, it is the one pictured on top. My impressions of the rifle were very favorable. It is a break open style rifle that can be easily fitted with a centerfire rifle barrel. As far as I know the TC Encore is the only one on the market that requires you to fill out the standard ATF forms for a firearms purchase. New England Firarms also has an offering out in black powder that looks very similar to their single action rifle/ shotgun models, but whether or not the barrel can be swapped for a shotgun or handi rifle barrel, I do not know. The TC Encore is also one of the few rifles out there that is fitted with an extractor. Later in the review I'll show you that this is a blessing and curse.
Some of the features.
Caliber: .50
Ignition: 209 Shotgun Primer (Closed Breech).
Barrel: 26" with QLA® Muzzle System.
Rifling Twist: 1 in 28" twist for use with Conicals and Sabots.
O/A Length: 40 1/2".
Approx. Wt: 7 lb.
Sights: Competition click adjustable steel rear sight and ramp style front sight are fitted with Tru-GloTM Fiber Optic inserts.
Trim: Sling Swivel Studs.
Stock: Solid American Walnut or Black Composite Buttstock and Forend.
Extra Features: Interchangeable barrels offered as accessories. Centerfire and Shotgun barrels interchange easily. Drilled and tapped for scope mounts.
Loading: Accepts Magnum charges of up to 150 grains of FFG Black Powder or Pyrodex® equivalent (or 3 Pyrodex® 50 caliber, 50 grain Pellets).
1. Fit and Feel.
This category can change based upon the individual shooter. The weapon balances nicely with a Leupold VXII 3x9 40mm scope mounteed. Balance is slightly forward but not to the point where it is excessively muzzle heavy. The black synthetic stock is smooth and the dimensions are comfortable for shooters with an average reach. The pronounced pistol grip section allows good control when shooting. The recoil pad is just right, not excessively soft, but not extremely hard. It really helps to soak up the recoil of the weapon. Thompson states that the rifle weighs 7 lbs. Add another pound or two for a scope and sling and you still have a weapon light enough to be carried all day.
2. Trigger and Sights.
The trigger could do with a lighter pull. Due to my lack of sophisticated tools I'd have to "guestimate" it at 6 lbs. Release was crisp and the hammer afforded a good purchase for cocking and uncocking. The fiber optic sights were very well made and large enough to see clearly in any light. No external safety is present.
3. Function.
As mentioned previously, the TC Encore is a break open type weapon. Pulling the trigger guard towards the grip section allows the weapon to be broken open for loading and unloading. It is also equipped with an extractor the pulls the fired 209 primer out enough to be easily removed with fingers.
Remember me mentioning the blessing and curse? Well prior to the test period I removed the standard extractor and replaced it with a TC EZ TIP Extractor. The EX TIP extractor swings out of the way to allow the breech plug to be removed without disassembling the gun. To remove the breech plug with the standard extractor in place the barrel must be removed from the reciever and a small retaining screw unscrewed. This allows the standard extractor to be removed from the weapon and allows access to the breech plug. Needless to say this is not something you want to do in the field!
Well with Murhys law at work 5 days before my trip my EZ tip extractor broke off. The screw that allowed the extractor to swivel had sheared off inside the extractor with no hope of removal. I contacted TC Arms requesting that they send me a replacement and they were very helful, even to the point of acknowledging they had a problem with them and that they would send me an "upgraded" extractor at no cost the same day. You can't really beat that for service!
The only other problem was that I found the trigger screw starting the back out under the recoil. So far the round count out of this rifle is about 50 rounds. Luckily I had my screwdriver set with me. A simple tightening cured the problem easily.
Firing and Accuracy.
Firing the weapon was very comfortable with the TC 250grain shockwave bullet and 2 50grain 777 pellets. No excessive recoil was noted, although the loosening of the trigger screw would seem to indicate some strong forces were at work. Groups were in the neighborhood of 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards from my improvised rest. The 777 powder allowed for 4 shots before I had to run a patch/brush down the bore. You definitely need to mark the ramrod when using 777. The first shot was easily rammed home. The second with a small bit of difficulty. The third would stop about 1/2 inch from being fully seated. It took a bit of pressing to get it to fully seated.
Overall impressions.
Hey..I'm happy! This will be my primary weapon during the hunt. TC definitely designed a winner with this one. Is it worth the sub $500 price range? Yes and No. Yes if you want a quality BP rifle that allows you to switch easily to a 12 Ga shotgun or numerous rifle barrels. No if you only intend to BP hunt with it exclusively. You could find one with the same features and quality for a good bit less. Still, Thompson is a good American made gun. Most folks will pay that extra for something made in the good old US of A.
Now on to the Winchester Apex.
The Winchester Apex is a rifle designed much like the TC Omega, except that the rifle is not even made by Winchester, but rather by CVA. Winchester just stamps their name on it. A "Made in Spain" stamp is very evident on the barrel. The action is a "falling breechblock" type action. The trigger guard is rotated forward, allowing the breech to fall downward and exposing the breech plug for unloading and loading. Other than a tool supplied and your fingers, no extractor is provided. The action type combined with the lack of an extractor lead to a small problem that I will discuss later. The stock is a conventional design.
Some of the features.
Caliber: .45/.50
Rate of Twist: 1:28"
Barrel Finish: Blued or Stainless
Barrel Length: 30"
Overall Length: 46"
Weight: 8lbs., 6oz.
Sling: Winchester Muzzleloading (included)
Sights: Metallic Fiber Optic, Fully Adjustable
Safety: Internal Hammer Block
Trigger: Fixed (pull preset 3Lbs. estimated)
Stock Finish Available in:
Black Fleck
Mossy Oak New Break-Up
1. Fit and Feel.
The weapon balances a good bit towards the muzzle, even with a 3-9x 44mm BEC scope mounted. This is more than likely due to a barrel length of 30 inches compared to the TC being only 26". Winchester attempted to lighten the barrel by adding flutes. While this makes for a very nice appearance, I doubt that it removes a great amount of weight. The stock fits the average shooter well and is of a conventional design. The plastic checkering was a bit sharp. Definitely not something you wanted to rub against you. The stock finish was also a paint splatter type of finish. Actually more like white cobwebs. This combined with the sharp checking allowed for a good grip on the rifle. As with the TC Encore, the recoil pad was very serviceable and worked as intended. At 8lbs 6 oz without scope it is a bit heavier than the TC. Still, even with the scope you are under 10 lbs. The rifle felt a bit heavier to me due to the balance point, but the provided rubber sling made it easy to carry.
2. Trigger and Sights.
Preset at 3lbs?...they gotta be kidding. Try closer to 8 and you'll have the trigger. The trigger break was clean and little creep if any felt. It would be a really nice trigger if it weren't so heavy. The fiber optics were there, but barely. For some reason they decided to make them extremely small. Why?
I have no idea. I would like to see larger fiber optics installed for increased light transmission and faster target aquisition. Otherwise they were serviceable. The hammer was relatively small. Cocking was easy, but I would be a bit nervous about decocking. They could do with a bit of a larger spur. As with the TC, no external safety was present.
3. Function.
The Winchester is in competion with the TC Omega in that they both have a falling block type breech action. This makes for easy loading and unloading. It also protects the primer against the elements. The closed breech designs are a definite improvement compared to the "first generation" inline rifles. The action is opened by pulling a spur on the trigger guard away from the rifle. The allows the entire assembly to pivot downward and expose the breech for loading and unloading. The loading is simple...but unloading..ahhhh, potential problems.
One simple note..when unloading, be sure you have a firm grip on the spent primer or tip the rifle to the side in case you lose it. I had a primer fall directly down into the action. A good bit of shaking got it to fall out and I could see a potential problem there. A nervous gloved hunter trying to reload and watch the animal at the same time could easily drop a spent primer into the action. Closing the action could tie up the works pretty good for you.
Other than that no problems were noted.
Firing and Accuracy.
Firing and accuracy were much like the TC Encore. Very comfortable. The load used was a Hornady 300grain XTP and 2 50 grain 777 pellets. Accuracy was about the same 1 1/2 to 2". I didn't get a chance to fire the Shockwave bullet through this rifle, but I'm sure it would perform admirably. The muzzle heavy feel made it easy to get the rifle on target and felt good shooting offhand so long as you don't hold it there too long, otherwise the muzzle heavy feeling starts to take over.
Overall impressions.
Nice rifle for $300. Quality was pretty good and the rifle shot well. Velocities should also be respectable with the longer barrel, leading to better downrange performance. I'd say it was worth the price tag wanted. Now whether the BEC scope will be up to the challenge, I'll see soon!
You folks just excuse my rambling at times. I get on one thought and stray to another...so English Major I am not! Just decided to post a review for those considering an new inline rifle.
Good SHooting
Red
Recently I had an opportunity to wring out two muzzle loaders new to me, the Winchester Apex and the TC Encore. Both rifles will be used in an upcoming Sambar Deer hunt this Tuesday. With a bit of luck I'll get to see the performance of T/C Arms 250 grain Shockwave bullet and Hornady's 300 grain XTP bullet on the 500 plus pound deer. Perhaps I'll even be lucky enough to slay a few hogs as well!
Both rifles are "sparked" by 209 primers and both tested were in .50 cal. Both TC and Winchester also offer a .45 cal rifle as well.
Now on to the review. I'll try to review both models based on category.
First comes my pet rifle, the TC Encore 209x50. For those not familiar with the look of the rifle, it is the one pictured on top. My impressions of the rifle were very favorable. It is a break open style rifle that can be easily fitted with a centerfire rifle barrel. As far as I know the TC Encore is the only one on the market that requires you to fill out the standard ATF forms for a firearms purchase. New England Firarms also has an offering out in black powder that looks very similar to their single action rifle/ shotgun models, but whether or not the barrel can be swapped for a shotgun or handi rifle barrel, I do not know. The TC Encore is also one of the few rifles out there that is fitted with an extractor. Later in the review I'll show you that this is a blessing and curse.
Some of the features.
Caliber: .50
Ignition: 209 Shotgun Primer (Closed Breech).
Barrel: 26" with QLA® Muzzle System.
Rifling Twist: 1 in 28" twist for use with Conicals and Sabots.
O/A Length: 40 1/2".
Approx. Wt: 7 lb.
Sights: Competition click adjustable steel rear sight and ramp style front sight are fitted with Tru-GloTM Fiber Optic inserts.
Trim: Sling Swivel Studs.
Stock: Solid American Walnut or Black Composite Buttstock and Forend.
Extra Features: Interchangeable barrels offered as accessories. Centerfire and Shotgun barrels interchange easily. Drilled and tapped for scope mounts.
Loading: Accepts Magnum charges of up to 150 grains of FFG Black Powder or Pyrodex® equivalent (or 3 Pyrodex® 50 caliber, 50 grain Pellets).
1. Fit and Feel.
This category can change based upon the individual shooter. The weapon balances nicely with a Leupold VXII 3x9 40mm scope mounteed. Balance is slightly forward but not to the point where it is excessively muzzle heavy. The black synthetic stock is smooth and the dimensions are comfortable for shooters with an average reach. The pronounced pistol grip section allows good control when shooting. The recoil pad is just right, not excessively soft, but not extremely hard. It really helps to soak up the recoil of the weapon. Thompson states that the rifle weighs 7 lbs. Add another pound or two for a scope and sling and you still have a weapon light enough to be carried all day.
2. Trigger and Sights.
The trigger could do with a lighter pull. Due to my lack of sophisticated tools I'd have to "guestimate" it at 6 lbs. Release was crisp and the hammer afforded a good purchase for cocking and uncocking. The fiber optic sights were very well made and large enough to see clearly in any light. No external safety is present.
3. Function.
As mentioned previously, the TC Encore is a break open type weapon. Pulling the trigger guard towards the grip section allows the weapon to be broken open for loading and unloading. It is also equipped with an extractor the pulls the fired 209 primer out enough to be easily removed with fingers.
Remember me mentioning the blessing and curse? Well prior to the test period I removed the standard extractor and replaced it with a TC EZ TIP Extractor. The EX TIP extractor swings out of the way to allow the breech plug to be removed without disassembling the gun. To remove the breech plug with the standard extractor in place the barrel must be removed from the reciever and a small retaining screw unscrewed. This allows the standard extractor to be removed from the weapon and allows access to the breech plug. Needless to say this is not something you want to do in the field!
Well with Murhys law at work 5 days before my trip my EZ tip extractor broke off. The screw that allowed the extractor to swivel had sheared off inside the extractor with no hope of removal. I contacted TC Arms requesting that they send me a replacement and they were very helful, even to the point of acknowledging they had a problem with them and that they would send me an "upgraded" extractor at no cost the same day. You can't really beat that for service!
The only other problem was that I found the trigger screw starting the back out under the recoil. So far the round count out of this rifle is about 50 rounds. Luckily I had my screwdriver set with me. A simple tightening cured the problem easily.
Firing and Accuracy.
Firing the weapon was very comfortable with the TC 250grain shockwave bullet and 2 50grain 777 pellets. No excessive recoil was noted, although the loosening of the trigger screw would seem to indicate some strong forces were at work. Groups were in the neighborhood of 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards from my improvised rest. The 777 powder allowed for 4 shots before I had to run a patch/brush down the bore. You definitely need to mark the ramrod when using 777. The first shot was easily rammed home. The second with a small bit of difficulty. The third would stop about 1/2 inch from being fully seated. It took a bit of pressing to get it to fully seated.
Overall impressions.
Hey..I'm happy! This will be my primary weapon during the hunt. TC definitely designed a winner with this one. Is it worth the sub $500 price range? Yes and No. Yes if you want a quality BP rifle that allows you to switch easily to a 12 Ga shotgun or numerous rifle barrels. No if you only intend to BP hunt with it exclusively. You could find one with the same features and quality for a good bit less. Still, Thompson is a good American made gun. Most folks will pay that extra for something made in the good old US of A.
Now on to the Winchester Apex.
The Winchester Apex is a rifle designed much like the TC Omega, except that the rifle is not even made by Winchester, but rather by CVA. Winchester just stamps their name on it. A "Made in Spain" stamp is very evident on the barrel. The action is a "falling breechblock" type action. The trigger guard is rotated forward, allowing the breech to fall downward and exposing the breech plug for unloading and loading. Other than a tool supplied and your fingers, no extractor is provided. The action type combined with the lack of an extractor lead to a small problem that I will discuss later. The stock is a conventional design.
Some of the features.
Caliber: .45/.50
Rate of Twist: 1:28"
Barrel Finish: Blued or Stainless
Barrel Length: 30"
Overall Length: 46"
Weight: 8lbs., 6oz.
Sling: Winchester Muzzleloading (included)
Sights: Metallic Fiber Optic, Fully Adjustable
Safety: Internal Hammer Block
Trigger: Fixed (pull preset 3Lbs. estimated)
Stock Finish Available in:
Black Fleck
Mossy Oak New Break-Up
1. Fit and Feel.
The weapon balances a good bit towards the muzzle, even with a 3-9x 44mm BEC scope mounted. This is more than likely due to a barrel length of 30 inches compared to the TC being only 26". Winchester attempted to lighten the barrel by adding flutes. While this makes for a very nice appearance, I doubt that it removes a great amount of weight. The stock fits the average shooter well and is of a conventional design. The plastic checkering was a bit sharp. Definitely not something you wanted to rub against you. The stock finish was also a paint splatter type of finish. Actually more like white cobwebs. This combined with the sharp checking allowed for a good grip on the rifle. As with the TC Encore, the recoil pad was very serviceable and worked as intended. At 8lbs 6 oz without scope it is a bit heavier than the TC. Still, even with the scope you are under 10 lbs. The rifle felt a bit heavier to me due to the balance point, but the provided rubber sling made it easy to carry.
2. Trigger and Sights.
Preset at 3lbs?...they gotta be kidding. Try closer to 8 and you'll have the trigger. The trigger break was clean and little creep if any felt. It would be a really nice trigger if it weren't so heavy. The fiber optics were there, but barely. For some reason they decided to make them extremely small. Why?
I have no idea. I would like to see larger fiber optics installed for increased light transmission and faster target aquisition. Otherwise they were serviceable. The hammer was relatively small. Cocking was easy, but I would be a bit nervous about decocking. They could do with a bit of a larger spur. As with the TC, no external safety was present.
3. Function.
The Winchester is in competion with the TC Omega in that they both have a falling block type breech action. This makes for easy loading and unloading. It also protects the primer against the elements. The closed breech designs are a definite improvement compared to the "first generation" inline rifles. The action is opened by pulling a spur on the trigger guard away from the rifle. The allows the entire assembly to pivot downward and expose the breech for loading and unloading. The loading is simple...but unloading..ahhhh, potential problems.
One simple note..when unloading, be sure you have a firm grip on the spent primer or tip the rifle to the side in case you lose it. I had a primer fall directly down into the action. A good bit of shaking got it to fall out and I could see a potential problem there. A nervous gloved hunter trying to reload and watch the animal at the same time could easily drop a spent primer into the action. Closing the action could tie up the works pretty good for you.
Other than that no problems were noted.
Firing and Accuracy.
Firing and accuracy were much like the TC Encore. Very comfortable. The load used was a Hornady 300grain XTP and 2 50 grain 777 pellets. Accuracy was about the same 1 1/2 to 2". I didn't get a chance to fire the Shockwave bullet through this rifle, but I'm sure it would perform admirably. The muzzle heavy feel made it easy to get the rifle on target and felt good shooting offhand so long as you don't hold it there too long, otherwise the muzzle heavy feeling starts to take over.
Overall impressions.
Nice rifle for $300. Quality was pretty good and the rifle shot well. Velocities should also be respectable with the longer barrel, leading to better downrange performance. I'd say it was worth the price tag wanted. Now whether the BEC scope will be up to the challenge, I'll see soon!
You folks just excuse my rambling at times. I get on one thought and stray to another...so English Major I am not!
Just decided to post a review for those considering an new inline rifle.Good SHooting
Red
