Ted Nugent needs some help...

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I honestly don't think that Ted is worried about Zumbo's livelihood...

Because those jobs are g-o-h-n. And they know it. However, I think he's also looking a bit further down the road, in his own limited by de vernacular sorta way...

What _we_ as a community can gain from this is a chance to get it all out in the open, and maybe, just MAYBE, come together. Be a damn shame to throw that away.
 
I don't know about you

but when I got into shooting there was a certain class and type of gun which interested me: highly accurate smallbore rifles. Not battle rifles. Not defense handguns, only nice rimfire match pistols. I had no interest in loud,powerful blasting weapons.

See, I was pure. I love shooting for its own sake, not for the power, not for Rambo fantasies,etc. I love fine rifles with beautiful wood, exquisite sights, and so on. What did I care for Garands, Black Rifles, and the like?

So for me it was entirely easy to accept the idea that maybe there should be some restrictions on all those nasty guns, but not on my pet guns which after all were designed only with peaceful intent.

Mr. Zumbo has spent his entire adult professional life being coddled by the sporting gun makers, and not in the world of defense gun makers. He has not had to jump through the hoops that ordinary citizens must deal with just to buy something to defend the home. He needs to go on a pronghorn hunt to test a new rifle? Just a few phone calls and it's done, no hassles, unlike the rest of us.

What I mean is that the poor SOB just didn't know any better, any more than I did in 1975 when I was first shopping for that nice, polite rifle. I was in a coccoon of my own, just like Mr. Zumbo, and you could've gotten an equally silly remark out of me back then. Now I know that each attempt to ban a particular gun is really an attempt to ban them all, and now I own an M1 and AR-15, and shoot them more than my lovely match rifles, but for crying out loud, there was a time when I didn't know that it mattered. And I bet that's true of most of us here. So cut the guy some slack. He loves fine guns as much as anyone. He just learned that the environment is such that we all must stand together. When did you all figure that out?
 
Bogie, only bad things happen when you stand directly behind a horse.

I think we can do better than Mr. Nugent.
 
TexasSigman: Perhaps you are right that having only 6 posts invalidates any opinion I may express on this forum, however I have a job and a life and really not enough time to sit at the computer and rack up 2,990 posts. Does that make you special? Maybe you can let me know when I have enough posts not to be flamed .

[Vaportrail, in return for being granted Membership here, you agreed to a Code of Conduct -- for further reference, found here:
http://www.thehighroad.org/code-of-conduct.html

Now, you can can start treating your fellow Members with civility and courtesy, or you can find yourself another Forum which is more conducive to your temperament.

If the job and life you referred to above make it difficult to find another Forum, only let me know and I will aid your search by removing you from our List of Members.

-- LawDog]
 
What I mean is that the poor SOB just didn't know any better, any more than I did in 1975 when I was first shopping for that nice, polite rifle.
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Maybe none of us new better when we were younger. Heck, i know less now at 45, than i did at 18 :) . Zumbo is in his late 60's . If he does'nt know any better, i do not want him speaking for my 2A rights.
 
TexasSigman: Perhaps you are right that having only 6 posts invalidates any opinion I may express on this forum, however I have a job and a life and really not enough time to sit at the computer and rack up 2,990 posts. Does that make you special? Maybe you can let me know when I have enough posts not to be flamed .
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Vaportrail,
approximately 2.03 posts per day, for TexasSigman, over a 4 year period hardly qualifies your attack. The number of posts, or lack there of, also does not disqualify a member's opinion.
 
TexasSigman: Maybe you can let me know when I have enough posts not to be flamed .
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It's about quality more than quantity, your post had neither. Go re-read what you wrote.

That kind of talk is exactly what's not needed here.
 
I have forgiven. Why? Because all make mistakes. All who make restitution and ask forgiveness deserve it. Go and sin no more. Zombo is doing that. He has my forgiveness. It is the proper and right thing to do. And once forgiven I will never hold what he did aganist him. That is the way my world vision works.
 
Then why is anyone talking about this at all if he didn't state exactly what the grabbers have been saying all along? He gave weight to their argument. In that one written statement he gave them what they needed, an insider with exactly the same views.
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Not the same views: there remains the simple fact that Zumbo's sole statement was about limiting their use on public lands for hunting. Period.

Should pro 2A folks have simply read what he wrote and ignored it?
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They shouldn't have read it in the first place (seriously, which of us Evil Black Rifle owners regularly read Zumbo's BLOG before this?) and probably wouldn't have.

But yes, I am uncomfortable with the way Zumbo got thrown under the bus on this. Despite the fact that I can't stomach hunting but appreciate a fine terr'ist rifle, nothing Zumbo wrote was worth ending his career over. Maybe I'm a soft-hearted wuss.

As to 'sporting purposes' - if you've simply chosen to accept the anti- field of battle on that, you will eventually lose. You're really not going to convince the masses that an AR's primary reason for being is the same as grampa's deer rifle. It's the image that the public associates with our armed forces - who generally aren't out looking for white-tails. Why bother trying?

Once you've accepted that we need 'sporting purposes' to defend our ownership - how do you 'splain the .50BMG? Whatcha hunting with that?
 
Once you've accepted that we need 'sporting purposes' to defend our ownership - how do you 'splain the .50BMG? Whatcha hunting with that?
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And you have a valid point.

None of us accept the sporting purposes mess to validate ownership, but now the argument will be much harder to make when the #1 hunting writer on the planet is out shooting Elk with an AR-10.

They will always try to make that argument, but it just got a lot harder.
 
As to 'sporting purposes' - if you've simply chosen to accept the anti- field of battle on that, you will eventually lose.
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Have you actually read the laws and regulations of the federal and various state governments? Nowadays they are riddled with references to "sporting purposes". It turns out that I am not the one who wrote those regulations and I am not the voters that have had this drivel fed to them until they started believing it.

Why bother trying?
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If we don't "bother trying" then those laws, regulations, and mindset will never be stopped or reversed. If you've simply chosen to ignore the fact that this is an issue, you will lose much sooner than later. I am not saying it SHOULD be an issue. But the gun grabbers have made it an issue and it has taken root in the public mindset. You can't fight it unless you acknowledge that it exists. If we don't fight on this issue, the public will assume that "sporting purposes" must be the correct basis for gun ownership. After all, federal and state laws include it and the gun owners aren't fighting it.
 
however I have a job and a life

however I have a job and a life
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Good point...no one else on THR has either. No THR member works for a living.
Sorry, mods,
 
I think since everybody has had a few days to think it over, that we can ask Mr. Zumbo to use his notoriety (or access to media) to become a more vocal proponent of 2nd Amendment rights for all gun owners, not just his favorite type.

Like many of you, I have certain likes and dislikes in guns but there is no bad gun to me, and maybe if Zumbo goes on record like that in his normal channels (not just to us) until he sounds like a broken record he can be of real service to the gun community.

I hope he's reading this and will do the right thing.
 
All the uproar over the "lunatic" comment floors me. My interpretation was that Ted's comment has nothing to do with gun owners, guns, EBR's, or anything gun related for that matter.

It had to do with observed behavior. Period.

The lunatic fringe, were those who were unable to act adult, be reasonable in their approach to the Zumbo situation (i.e., posting Zumbo's physical address is not reasonable), and move ahead in a positive way.

Look around at some of the down right dirty and asinine comments in all the Zumbo related threads. Those people don't represent me anymore than Ted Nugent for a damned good reason.
 
I must say I'm very disappointed by many of the new posters on this forum.

You can make fun of Ted's mannerisms, vocabulary and style all you want (you know, the stuff that made him loved by millions and far more wealthy, and more effective spokesman for guns and hunting than you'll ever be) but the way he handled this situation speaks volumes about his maturity and intelligence. While all zumbo's other friends were tucking tail, or grousing about the internet, Ted put his own neck on the line, took him in and educated him and negotiated an amicable end to the hostilities. You couldn't ask for a better friend.

As a DPMS customer, I'll be emailing them to let them know Ted is on our side.
 
The fight is too dear and too fragile. We can't afford to eat our own. I am sure Ted can help him see the light and understand what he did was wrong.

Let's give Ted a chance and see what comes of it. After all he's done for 2A and protecting our hunting sports, he deserves a chance.
 
Zumbo created a divide in our ranks (as intended). He now knows he took it too far and wants to unring that bell.

A neat thing happened though, we all united...for a few minutes.

If Zumbo cared, he'll know that he's made his apology and go on home keep a low profile. If Ted cared and understood big picture, he'd have let it go and perhaps helped his friend get it on their own, private time.

Ted and Zumbo's continued overbearing, arrogant insertion into the gun owners community as spokesmen is obviously continuing to cause a MAJOR rift. (re:this thread, as one tiny example).

Plain and simple, Zumbo will always be a major souce of controversy among our ranks. Zumbo, show you care and go on home and keep a low profile. Don't continue to cause dissention and controversy. Ted, use your mind and not your mouth for 5 minutes and just observe--you too are causing major turmoil.

(And the continued references to eating our own only serve to remind me of who took the first bite--petty perhaps, but I pride myself on never getting bit by the same dog. Yes, dog.)

I don't want Zumbo as my spokesman, "upgraded" or not. I find it offensive.
 
Vaportrail wrote:
TexasSigman: Perhaps you are right that having only 6 posts invalidates any opinion I may express on this forum, however I have a job and a life and really not enough time to sit at the computer and rack up 2,990 posts. Does that make you special? Maybe you can let me know when I have enough posts not to be flamed .
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after writing:
We should let Zumbo serve as an example of what happens when you turn on your own. This jerk had it made, sponsers and people kissing his ass everywhere he went. Nugent is pissing me off by trying to save this elitist ass. Zumbo is 67 years old. If he hasn't learned in that long that you don't crap in your own bed then he deserves everything he got. Apology not accepted. He should do everyone a favor and retire, instead of whining about water that is already over the dam.
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Seems to me you sort of brought TexSigman's blood pressure up. Duly noted that you are one of the thousands, or hundreds, or whatever who does not accept Zumbo's apology.

I know Zumbo and Nugent. In one of Nugent''s posts, copied here previously from perhaps his own blog, he seems to be expressing the same kind of intolerance about those who disagree with his view as you and others have expressed toward Zumbo. That is, no matter how many times he apologizes, no matter what he does to try and square himself, it will never be enough. One of those "my way or the highway" kinds of things.

Not my position to judge whether that's good or bad. I'm sure others will.

Who knows what lies over the horizon for Zumbo, or Nugent for that matter?
I know what is waiting out there in the "tall grass" for the rest of us, though. Feinstein, McCarthy, Schumer, Clinton, Boxer, Conyers, Biden, and an assorted bunch.
I think they'd rather pick us off one at a time, or one small group at a time, instead of tangling with all of us at once.
Let's not make it easy for them, eh?

That's just me talking.
 
Seems to me you sort of brought TexSigman's blood pressure up.
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Not really, I could care less about Zumbo OR Nugent.

There's simply no need to take the discussion into the gutter.

I've seen enough name calling and foul language around this whole mess to last me a while.
 
Zumbo, to my mind has quite a way to go to repair the damage he has done, if it can be repaired at all. Ted is just being Ted. But Dave Workman is right. Now is the time for all of us to stick together. I personally think you should be able to own and shoot whatever you want, as long as you do so responsibly. Trap and skeet with $20,000 over and under shotguns is not my game, nor is bullseye, but as long as powder is burning, it's all good. We definitely have bigger fish to fry than Zumbo and Nugent.
 
Wow. A lot of heat in here so I'm not stayin. I'll just say that I completely agree with this rather profound statement from TSM:

The last thing we need, however, is for people to misquote him or to try to change what was said. He said what he said, the meaning was clear. He's now realized his mistake and we should give him a while to clear it up.

That doesn't mean I'm going to get back on the Jim or Ted fan wagon for a while, but I'm certainly going to give them both a chance.
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Time to cool off.
 
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