Teen Paralyzed by ND of Illegal CCW

[HiroProX]

This mouthbreather belongs to the same category as Mr. Glock .40

Only it's not funny because someone besides the mouthbreather got hurt because of it.

 

[Flopsy]

I hope every responsible gun owner has the occasional nightmare about being responsible for something like this. That would do a whole lot more than wondering what gun he had.

I guess I'll have to respectfully disagree. I'd like to know technically what real circumstances resulted in the discharge so I can get some real knowledge of another mistake. Then take real steps in the real world to avoid those circumstances. I simply think that would be more effective than shrinking away from nightmares.


Edit: And I'm seeing the law as rather extraneous here, I don't think it was a big factor. He could have been carrying legally and still be an idiot who has an AD, or he could be carrying ILLEGALLY and still be an idiot who has an AD. This is a result of his negligence and I fail to see where the law contributed to his failure.

 

[Derby FALs]

It may even have been a faulty firearm.

 

[rbernie]

I fail to see where the law contributed to his failure.

The theory is that if he had been allowed to carry legally, he'd likely have had the gun in a holster or some other means of appropriate carry.

I don't buy into that, myself. I just can't see how getting a hall pass from .gov to legally carry would have somehow motivated him to put the weapon in a holster on his person instead of in his bag.

 

[SFvet]

You can drop a Sig off of a 2 story building and it wont go off. Firing pin blocks prevent such. That said, if the weapon were to be cocked, the corner of a book like one of our members cited, could fire the mechanism.

 

[srtboise]

buzz_knox the only way according to the manual that I by-passed the safety was by having a loaded round in the chamber. The manual clearly states Do not carry the pistol with either of the safety stops engaged.

i have not read the manual you refer to but a properly maintained 1911 with correct, and correctly installed, parts is perfectly safe cocked and locked as long as the user exercises proper gun handling.

I also carried as spartan55 recommend with the hammer down and that is when it dented a primer.

my bet is the act of lowering the hamer on the live round in the chamber is what dented the primer. if the gun remained holstered on your hip the whole time and you didnt fall or bump into anything with tremedous force i dont think it could have happened any other time. i believe carrying a 1911 with the hammer down on a live round is an accident waiting to happen. you have to disengage both safeties and pull the trigger on a live round to put a 1911 in that condition. not a problem if you are at the shooting range with the muzzle pointed down range. if the gun goes off then no harm no foul but if you are readying your ccw for carry you are likely doing this in your house and it is only a matter of time before you put a hole in something that shouldnt have a hole in it. i know many carry this way and some have done it for years and years without incident but i still believe it is unsafe.

imo, there are 2 safe ways to carry a 1911, assuming proper gun handling of course. empty chamber or cocked and locked. anything else is a potential tradedy waiting to happen. i do not wish to start a discussion on the pros/cons of various carry conditions, i am just stating my opinion

So called experts told that either way should have been safe as long as the thumb safety was engaged. I have shot rifle competition for many years and one of the cardinal rules is that if you don't have faith in your weapon get rid of the weapon because you will never achieve excellence. The same should be said should be said about safety. I tried carrying the gun two different ways unsuccessfully and I didn't want to end up a static like both the people in this event. By the way your recommendation of carrying fully cocked and locked also is in direct conflict with the safety instruction of the manual.

this sounds like good advice to me. if you dont have any faith in your 1911 then do what you need to do. if getting rid of it is what you need to do then that is the right thing to do. i believe the manual's recommendation to not carry cocked and locked (i believe you mentioned in an earlier post the manual recommends chamber empty carry?) is simply a disclaimer the company's lawyers made them put in there.

spend some time at m1911.org. i strongly recommend reading the stickies in the gunsmithing forum. i think your faith in 1911's will be renewed.

here is some good info about the half cock that was discussed earlier.

as to the original post, very tragic incident. my heart goes out to the injured girl and her family. i too would like to know what kind of gun the guy had in his pack.

steve

 

[Manedwolf]

honestly, stuff like this makes me wonder why so many people insist on carrying one in the chamber.

Because I carry a DAO Taurus PT745 with a manual safety on the side. It was the safest "pocket" auto I could find, and, I believe, far safer than the newer SA/DA version. When chambered, it's NOT cocked.

Some people believe in such things. Like seatbelts.

 

[benEzra]

What does it say about us that most people here seem most concerned with what he was carrying?

Does the fact that he ruined some young woman's life affect anyone?

...

I hope every responsible gun owner has the occasional nightmare about being responsible for something like this. That would do a whole lot more than wondering what gun he had.

You can only do something to prevent such tragedies if you know exactly what caused this tragedy. Knowing the type of gun tells you a lot about what could have caused it, and rules out a lot of things that couldn't have.

FWIW, when I hear that a plane has gone down, I (1) grieve for those who died, and their families, and (2) want to know WHY the plane went down. They are not mutually exclusive. FWIW, I have cried over a few CVR transcripts. Grieving over a tragedy, and trying to come to grips with how it was allowed to happen, are compatible endeavours.

honestly, stuff like this makes me wonder why so many people insist on carrying one in the chamber.

Because if you need to use it, it's useless without a round in the chamber unless you have both hands free. And if you carry a double-action revolver, that's pretty much the only way to carry, anyway.

I personally carry a DA/SA 9mm with a manual safety AND internal firing pin blocks, always in a holster, and NEVER in a container or a pocket with loose stuff that could get into the trigger guard.

 

[wacki]

rbernie,

thanks for the response. It was informative.

 

[>SHOCK<^>WAVE<]

FED's will prosecute him

I wonder if the FED's will prosecute him for breaking
the gun free school zone thing ??

kungfuhippie wrote:Ask the 15 students at Texas A&M that died
in 1966 if they'd of prefered good guys to be armed on campus.

I don't think that law existed then so it has no relevance to that incident, the
good guys chose not be armed on that day in 1966 they weren't prevented from
being armed. I'll add that I certainly don't support the gun free school zone law
brought to us by the Clinton administration.

 

[kungfuhippie]

shockwave
yeah I guess so, another reason to love clinton1966 was a different era.

I guess the point is that a bad guy will break little laws while commiting a big law. Having law abiders armed would just limit evil people's rein of terror.

The famed LA police chases are a good example, they always result in a shopping list of charges; speeding, running lights, wreckless driving, illegal lane change, dui, etc. The cops will throw the book at them hoping that at least a few things stick. This way when a crazy does something, if the jury deadlocks or turns up a not-guilty they can then try them for lesser offenses.

 

[gunsmith]

the press

would rather have a field day then report what kind of gun and if it was
in a holster.
in anyrate the guy was a moron...

Now that girls friend and family are anti's for life.

And she is paralyzed? If that was my sister I would want him in jail for ever...
what I would really want I cant say on thr

 

[>SHOCK<^>WAVE<]

yeah I guess so, another reason to love clinton1966 was a different era.

I guess the point is that a bad guy will break little laws while commiting a big law. Having law abiders armed would just limit evil people's rein of terror.

If they had the gun free school zone law back then do yah suppose Bill &
Hillary's Hippy buddies would have been shot at Kent State ??

 

[Katigroszek]

one in the chamber

I think some guys are missing the point here. It is not that carrying loaded gun is dangerous - it can be useful in situations, where one has to defend himself from sudden attack. That I agree with. But how the poor stupid guy wanted to defend from sudden attack with a loaded gun in the bacpack (that is where he was carryig it, right?)???

Did he think that in such a case he will reach with one hand to his bacpack, draw a gun (lightning speed) and shoot the bad guys??? He would have to be a f*****g Flashman or something!

If he decided that he no longer needed the gun on him for self defence he should unload it and than put it in the bacpack. EMPTY CHAMBER (and a magazine too - imo). Otherwise why not start dragging the gun on a rope tied to beltloop...

Type and model of a firearm and type of trigger (SA,DA,DAO, Glock SafeAction) makes no difference here.

 

[skud_dusty]

It's probably been said, but this point needs to be made

GLOCK OR NOT, A SAFETY IS A MECHANICAL DEVICE THAT CAN AND WILL FAIL.