Tell me about 3" 1911s

[FW]

I have interest in getting a compact 1911 someday. It seems like a good time to start learning.

I've researched a little about them. I guess the cheapest one out there is the Springfield "GI" ultra compact. Does anyone here have any first hand experience with it? The price is certainly attractive. I realize it is all steel and some others are aluminum framed. I am not trying to compare apples to oranges.

I would appreciate any suggestions about any of the compact 1911's. There seems to be significant difference between some of them.

 

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's FW My Friend-

I have a 3" Kimber Stainless Ultra Carry II with an aluminum frame that
I use as my daily CCW piece everyday. I bought it NIB last year, and
it has NEVER experienced any type of a malfunction. I carry the Kimber
in a custom leather compact carry rig, with the double magazine pouch
and matching belt from Kirkpatrick Leather of Laredo, Texas.

 

[BADUNAME4]

There's a Colt Defender at the shop that I can't get out of my head. Please advize.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The more a gun deviates from its design parameters, the harder it seems to make the gun be reliable. For the 1911s in the shorter barrel sizes such as the Kimber with the 3.16" barrel, what was needed was to change the timing of the cycle since the reduced mass of the short slide resulted in the gun cycling too fast and not functioning properly. Some companies went with heavier springs. Kimber went with a 2 stage heavier spring setup. As a general rule, small 1911s are not as reliable as full-sized 1911s, but some individual guns may work great when all their parts and ammo are in sync.

Recoil springs on the smaller 1911s need to be replaced at a quicker rate than full sized guns. Kimber suggests every 1000 rounds when I purchased my Ultra Elite. I assume it is the same now.

The smaller guns, with less mass, tend to have snappier recoil, larger muzzle flashes, and tend to be louder. Ammo does not come up to full velocity since ammo is designed for a 5" barrel. That means it is harder to find defensive ammo that will expand from such a short barrel since the short barrel produces velocities below normal and a lot of handgun ammo is a marginal expander at normal velocities.

 

[1911 guy]

D.N.S. is right.

The real issue with concealing a handgun is the grip frame, not the barrel length. If a 3" 1911 has a bobbed frame, you gained something. If it's a 3" bbl on a standard frame, you're throwing away sight radius and POSSIBLE reliability issues. Some, like Ala Dan's, run great. Others are expensive dust collectors.

 

[tegemu]

A BIG plus to the 3 inchers is that they are an ideal pocket pistol. They conceal very well because of the shorter grip, although I find that a Bobtailed full size grip conceals better, the point of the grip, which is what shows, is gone.

 

[M2 Carbine]

I'm a fan of the 3 inch 1911 but the only ones I have experience with is the Kimber Ultras. I have three (and my friends have several) that are totally reliable and very accurate.

I've thought about buying other brand 3 inch 1911 pistols but I don't know anyone that owns anything but the Kimbers.

As is said a lot, the 3 inch 1911 tends to have problems. I haven't seen that, so I guess I'll just stay with what works.

If you get the Springfield GI ultra compact, let us know how it does.

 

[Whirlwind06]

I just got a RIA Officers model, 3.5 inch barrel. I haven't gotten to the range with it yet. I love the size of it. I have been carring it around my house, to get a feel for it. I'll find out how it shoots this weekend.

 

[TIMC]

My daily carry gun is a 3" Para C-645 with the LDA trigger. It does not like ball ammo but it is very reliable with Federal personal defense HP ammo. I also love that LDA trigger.

 

[Old Dog]

I've two Springfield Armory Micro-Compacts (true 3-inchers), two-tone, lightweight loaded models. Liked the first one I picked up a couple years ago so much, bought a second one.

While the Micros have many detractors (almost always those who've never actually owned one), I think SA (can't speak for Kimber) has tweaked the Micros to the point where they are fully reliable. Mine are extremely (some would say, surprisingly) accurate and after the first couple hundred rounds through 'em, have been 100% functional with every type of .45 ACP (including all the premium JHPs).

Can't speak to the GI models, but SA's top-end Micros are, to me, pretty neat little pistols. Totally de-horned, smooth, Trijicon Novaks, ultra-slim red cocobolo stocks ... and great shooters to boot.

One caveat with these shorties: gotta shoot 'em with a more ... manly grip. No limp-wristing, or you will certainly induce misfeeds and malfunctions.

 

[HankB]

I was considering a micro .45 about 2 years ago, so I was paying attention when they showed up at the range in the hands of other shooters.

The general impression I got was that they were a 50-50 proposition - about half seemed to work well, the other half didn't.

I decided not to buy one myself.

One caveat with these shorties: gotta shoot 'em with a more ... manly grip. No limp-wristing, or you will certainly induce misfeeds and malfunctions.

IMHO a pistol ought to run right even with a loose grip, expecially if it's a defensive pistol you might need to use even when you've been injured.

 

[MachIVshooter]

My personal experience with 1911's smaller than a commander size is that they are finicky at best. Those that would run would not do it with all types of ammo, and I have found plenty of them that just don't work well. They are extremely susceptible to limp wristing as well.

I tell you this as a big 1911 fan who would not own an officer size or smaller due to reliability issues that no company seems to be able to fully work out. The 1911 platform was just not meant to be scaled down that much.

If you want a subcompact .45 ACP, I would suggest one that was designed from the ground up to be exactly that, not one that is a scaled down or hacked-off version of a fullsize.

Such guns include the S&W CS45, Kahr P45 and Taurus PT145MP.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I have heard of, but not seen, issues with compact 1911 pattern pistols, much as outlined by previous posters. The only sub-4" 1911 I ever actually owned and fired was a Kimber Ultra, and it functioned flawlessly (although I only put 50 rounds through it before we parted company).

After doing my research, I arrived at the venerable Colt 1991A1 Compact. Slightly larger that a Commander, with a 6" slide and a 4" barrel, they seem to avoid the "problems" of the micro 1911 patterns. I've now owned 5, and all have functioned flawlessly.

Even better, they can typically be had on auction for ~$500.

 

[grislyatoms]

Ala Dan-

Glad to hear you have had good success with your Kimber UC II. I bought one NIB and had nothing but problems with it. As a matter of fact, it was hammer following right out of the box! Sent it off to Kimber, and when I got it back, it wouldn't feed properly, not even ball! I sold it, and I doubt I will ever buy another Kimber. (yeah, I know I probably got the one bad one out of 1000, but :banghead: )

I have a Springfield Champion Stainless with a 4" barrel, and have never had a single problem with it.

I also have a couple of Gov't models that I have had 0 problems with.

I agree with Double Naught Spy, shorter barrel lengths in 1911's can be dicey.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Actually, mine is 50/50. My original Kimber Ultra Elite would live round stove pipe a round that was supposed to feed into the barrel. It didn't matter what ammo or mags I was using. This happened maybe every hundred rounds or so on some days, every 200 or 300 or others. It just varied. The frame was aluminum and cracked after 9600 rounds. Kimber replaced it and the new version does not have the bizarre feeding problems that as I understand it were timing problems. Why? I don't know how changing the frame changed the timing, but it did.

The newer/replaced version seems to work well enough, but it isn't my first choice for self defense.

FYI, I carry Speer Gold Dot 185s in it when I do simply because they have supposed good expansion (not full expansion, but they do expand) even from such a short barrel (fired into water as I recall was the test). Fed Hydrashok 230 gr rounds failed to expand.

FYI, +P ammo isn't real fun to shoot in the little guns, especially the lightweight varieties.