Tex. officer suspended for firing handgun off-duty

[Drizzt]

Tex. officer suspended for firing handgun off-duty


By RUTH RENDON
The Houston Chronicle

PASADENA, Tex. — A Pasadena police officer was suspended without pay after being charged with firing a handgun during a traffic altercation when he was off duty.

Officer Marcus Justin Kacz, 26, was initially suspended with pay following the March 23 incident. He was charged Wednesday with

According to the investigation, Kacz, a two-year employee, was northbound on Beltway 8 between Interstate 45 and Genoa Red Bluff about 2:30 a.m. when a 1996 Ford Explorer approached Kacz's 2000 Nissan pickup from behind at a fairly high rate of speed. The Explorer possibly struck Kacz's truck before passing.

Kacz called police dispatch to report the incident and then followed the Explorer and its four occupants, Mitchell said. The Explorer eventually stopped in the Red Bluff and Fairmont area. Kacz, in civilian clothing, approached the Explorer but it drove off.

Kacz pursued it to an apartment complex at 7201 Spencer Highway.

There, the occupants of the Explorer fled with the exception of Cornelio Barrera, 33, of Houston. Kacz and Barrera got into a physical confrontation after Barrera threw an unopened beer bottle at the officer, striking him, Mitchell said.

During the struggle, Kacz had his 9 mm handgun in his hand and it discharged accidentally, he said. Barrera then got back into the Explorer and fled. Kacz responded with gunfire. After the shooting, Kacz called the dispatcher again to report the shooting, Mitchell said.

Kacz remains free after posting a $1,000 bond.

http://www.policeone.com/news/1244278/

 

[Geister]

I'm kind of leaning in defense of the officer. For one thing, the occupants in the vehicle committed a hit and run, a felony in Texas.

 

[foob]

Barrera then got back into the Explorer and fled. Kacz responded with gunfire.

Er... leaning in defense of the officer?

Also unless I'm mistaken, use of deadly force is to prevent a forcible felony, not just any felony. Forcible = the infliction or threatened infliction of great bodily harm.

Unless the guy got into the Explorer and tried to ram the officer, can't see how the officer should respond with gunfire. Could be the officer was trying to disable the car with gunfire, that could be permissable.

Thought it was pretty cut and dry, you ain't suppose to shoot a guy who is fleeing. Even after the person ate a live baby.

 

[Geister]

Could be the officer was trying to disable the car with gunfire, that could be permissable.

A hit and run, which is a felony, an assault on a police officer, which is at least a Class A if not a felony. Then the article doesn't explicitly state that he was trying to kill the guy instead of disabling the car. So, I'm leaning towards the cop's side.

 

[geronimotwo]

The Explorer possibly struck Kacz's truck before passing.

this should be self evident.

many details are missing here, but if drawing his weapon and firing were justified, his mistake appears to have been an "accidental" discharge.

 

[jeep-2]

I would go with the cop on this, it could have been an innocent old couple that were harrassed in thier auto and people could have died.

 

[Titan6]

Aside from being a really, really bad day to trash Texas LEOs I also wonder about the details. The whole thing smells funny. Not enough info to go with here.

 

[Steve in PA]

From what was reported, doesn't sound like there was justification for him to shoot. Guess his firearms instructor needs to go over several things with the officer including justification for deadly force and Tenn v. Gardner.

 

[buzz_knox]

There, the occupants of the Explorer fled with the exception of Cornelio Barrera, 33, of Houston. Kacz and Barrera got into a physical confrontation after Barrera threw an unopened beer bottle at the officer, striking him, Mitchell said.

During the struggle, Kacz had his 9 mm handgun in his hand and it discharged accidentally, he said.

We need to know a lot more about this "physical confrontation" and when he pulled his weapon before we're in a position to really know anything about the legitimacy of the shot or the charge.

 

[rhubarb]

I assume the officer clearly identified himself as police. Imagine how you would respond after a fender-bender if the other driver followed you and got out of his vehicle with a gun in hand.

This article says he was charged with deadly conduct after firing at the fleeing assailant. I would agree that shooting at a car in a residential neighborhood is deadly conduct, police or not. An argument could be made for the use of deadly force if there was a struggle with multiple attackers, but it'd be hard to justify shooting as the bad guys are running away.

 

[buzz_knox]

would agree that shooting at a car in a residential neighborhood is deadly conduct, police or not. An argument could be made for the use of deadly force if there was a struggle with multiple attackers, but it'd be hard to justify shooting as the bad guys are running away.

Under a limited set of circumstances, one can fire on a fleeing felon. But one has to reasonably believe that the felon poses an immediate danger to another person.

 

[DogBonz]

first off

it said "The Explorer possibly struck Kacz's truck before passing." Key word Possibly.

Assualting an officer. Ok I didn't read where he identified him self as an officer. As far as these guys know they cut off some guy who went psyco and started chasing them.

 

[pacodelahoya]

Said right there he was in civilian clothes, I do not assume that he identified himself either.

I could see where he could just as easily have been shot by bringing a gun to a fender bender.



(we all know what happens when we assume right)

 

[justashooter]

his mistake appears to be shooting at a fleeing hit and run, which he could have had reasonable expectation of being legally apprehended at a later date, as the car's liscense plate has a NUMBER ON THE BACK.

if i see someone trying to eat a live baby, don't recognise them, and believe they will never be caught, then i can shoot them as they run away. if they drive away in a blue ford pickup with pennsylvania liscense number RUFDUP, i can't shoot at them as they get away.

 

[buzz_knox]

if i see someone trying to eat a live baby, don't recognise them, and believe they will never be caught, then i can shoot them as they run away. if they drive away in a blue ford pickup with pennsylvania liscense number RUFDUP, i can't shoot at them as they get away.

Bad example. You can shoot them as they are trying to harm the baby, whether you recognize them or not. Given that you saw them trying to inflict lethal harm on the child, I believe you can shoot them as they are attempting to leave the area as you 1) saw them committing a felony and 2) have strong reason to believe the child is in immediate danger of death if the driver gets away.

A better example is if you see someone get into an argument with another, get in their car and run over the person, and then try to speed off. You can't shoot them unless you have reason to believe they are attempting to run over another person immediately present, or are just circling around to hit the first person again.

 

[lacoochee]

Wouldn't throwing an opened beer bottle constitute deadly assault? It would be more than capable of killing depending on where it struck and how hard it was thrown.

I know what I think happened...(this scenario is all to common in Florida)

An illegal alien drunk driver and his friends (he had an unopened beer bottle) struck the officer vehicle and then fled. The officer gave chase and identified himself as officer (the other three illegals fled) one stayed (driver? not sure doesn't say) he was drunk and belligerent and attacked the officer with whatever was at hand, starting with a thrown unopened beer bottle and then finally physically attacking the officer. The officer showed great restraint and didn't kill him, but during the struggle accidently discharged his weapon. Then his politically correct department heads suspended him because they think he had violated the civil right of the illegal aliens by trying to hold them to account for their illegal actions.

OK, you're right pure speculation!!! But no worse than the rest of the speculation in this thread.

 

[foob]

^^^ just wow.

You forgot to add this part to your story

Barrera then got back into the Explorer and fled. Kacz responded with gunfire.

 

[LawBot5000]

I'm kind of leaning in defense of the officer. For one thing, the occupants in the vehicle committed a hit and run, a felony in Texas.

That is not how self defense law works for private citizens, nor is it how the rules work for on-duty police officers. Fleeing suspects who aren't leaving the commission of a violent felony and dont represent an immediate danger to others can't be apprehended through the use of deadly force. Tennessee v Garner, yo.

 

[lacoochee]

You know I somehow missed the part where he shot at the fleeing felon after he got in his car. He shouldn't have done that. It's been a long day.

I say we hang the officer, he obviously only took the job to earn his wings as a JBT before going to work for the BATFE.

 

[foob]

.

 

[ilbob]

I do not buy the idea of anyone not in a recognizable police vehicle and police uniform as being identified as a police officer. Just saying so does not make you one, and pulling a gun on someone after chasing them who knows how far after what sounded like a very minor traffic accident that the driver may not even have realized happened, seems like really bad judgment at the very least.

Look at it this way. You are driving home from work and have a close call, but don't hit anything. Crazy guy driver chases you down the road, catches up with you and pulls a gun on you all the while shouting incoherently at you.

 

[CNYCacher]

Two sides to every story

So we were driving down the interstate the other day, just laughing it up and having a good time. Jack was driving and trying to tell us the story about when he lost his pants on his way to that final exam. Suddenly Dan yells out "look out!" and Jack swerves into another lane, just barely missing a slow car that we almost rear-ended.
Then things got wierd.
Jack says "guys, that car is speeding up and I think he's following us". I looked out the back and sure enough this guy was tailing us pretty hard. Dan was getting scared and I was too a little. The guy looked pissed but I hoped he would calm down. After a few miles he was still back there. Jack took a random exit to see if the guy was really following us. The guy following us got off at the same exit so Dan started getting really scared. He started yelling at Jack "Dude, that guy is some kind of psycho! What are we gonna do? He's following us for sure!" Jack just said "Relax. It's probably just a coincidence, and just pulled over to the side "Watch, he'll drive right by us!"
Jack and Dan were arguing and I was the first to notice that the guy pulled over behind us too. "Guys! He stopped!" Dan turns around and Jack checks the side mirror just in time to see the guy get out of his car and start rushing up to our car, waving his arms and yelling. "Holy s**t! Is that a gun in his pants?" Dan screams. The guy is now 10 feet behind the car and approaching the driver's side. The wind catches his shirt a little and I catch a glimpse of the handle of a Glock pistol sticking out of his waistband. Jack shoots me a glance in the rear-view mirror and I know that he saw it too.
Dan starts freaking out "Holy s**t, he is gonna kill us! Get out of here, NOW!!!" Dan is screaming at Jack even as Jack is throwing the car in drive and peeling out. Our pursuer turns around and runs back to his car, throwing a rooster tail of gravel as he tries to catch up.
"Somebody call 911, now!" Jack commands. Dan looks at me, saying "I don't have a phone on me." I look at my phone and see "Low Battery". I punch 9-1-1-SEND on my phone and and rewarded with a black screen as the last life in my phone winks out. "F**k!" I say, "No phone." Dan looks like he is about to cry. I come up with an idea.
"Jack, just drive! Eventually this guy will cool off. Either that or we will get pulled over for speeding and either way, we'll be safe.
"Maybe, but we are not doing so good on gas right now, and if we pass the exit for my place, there is not another exit for 24 miles. If we can get enough ahead of this guy, we could pull up to the house, run inside, close the door and call 911 from my house."
Dan again, "Dude, we are going to be KILLED!"
"Shutup, Dan. It's the best shot we have right now!"
Dan started muttering something under his breath as we whipped off the interstate and tore down the ramp. Turning onto a sidestreet just 1/2 mile from Jack's house, Jack yelled back to me "Is he still back there?" "Yeah, he is about 1/4 mile back, but he is keeping up!"
"Good," Jack said, "we won't have any trouble getting inside before he knows what is going on."
As Jack's house rocketed into view, I started to wonder if Jack was going to stop. At the last second, he jumped the curb into his yard and skidded to a stop. Three doors popped open, and we ran to the front door. I heard the squeel of rubber on the street and the other guy's car came to a stop on the street. It was then that I noticed Dan was still in the passenger seat, struggling with his seat belt. Dan froze when he saw the guy jump out of his car, pistol in hand. Behind me, Jack fumbles with his house keys. In front of me, Dan sits in the car, awaiting certain death. As the man approaches the car, Dan springs to life, throwing a beer bottle at the guy and making a break for the house. He is not fast enough though and the guy tackles him. I watch in terror as a shot rings out. Dan and the man separate. Dan jumps in the car which is still running and speeds off. The guy shoots at the car as Dan is leaving and we run into the house.

Turns out the guy is a cop off-duty!

 

[Frog48]

Tough call. Depends on the "physical confrontation". If Kacz was reasonably defending his life, good for him. Both cops and regular folks the right to protect themselves.

Regardless, Kacz will probably get off the hook because of the "assault on an officer".

Looking at the big picture, I have a problem with charging people with "assault on an officer" when the officer is in plain clothes, regardless if they identified themself as an officer or not. In those situations, it should be regular assault. Anybody can yell "I'm a cop" and flash a badge that they bought at a kids toy store... how is a average person supposed to know the difference?

And how does a vehicle "possibly" get hit? If you make contact with another vehicle, even a light bump at slow speeds, its usually pretty obvious. The author from the Houston Chronicle must not be the smartest person.

 

[Geister]

Fleeing suspects who aren't leaving the commission of a violent felony and dont represent an immediate danger to others can't be apprehended through the use of deadly force.

We don't know the entire story, which is why I said I'm leaning towards the officer at this point. For all we know he could have been bleeding when the guy fled.

If the suspect fled the scene at a high rate of speed and disobeyed all traffic rules, he would be considered an immediate danger to others.

My real opinion on this subject revolves around the fact that the guys put themselves into the confrontation with the cop, so they get no sympathy from me.