Texas Concealed Carry Laws vs. Other States

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MechAg94 said:
One other thing to remember is that the Texas Legislature is only in session for about 6 months every two years aside from occasional special sessions. It can take a little time to get changes made. :)


Given our state legislature, that's not always a bad thing.


Regards,
Rabbit.
 
Yes, I wish we could do that to the US Congress. Get those slugs out of D.C. for a while.

Texas is generally majority conservative, but there is a large minority of liberals here. It has take time over the last 15 years to push the original CHL law through and start making other changes. Hell, it was only in the 80's that we were still a Democrat state. I think the combo of Gov. Anne Richards and Bill Clinton finally sunk the Dems at the state level here.

The Texas State Rifle Association has some pretty good people working for us. They and some good legislators are fighting off stupid laws and pushing for positive change every session. The TSRA's newsletter summarizes the legislative efforts pretty good. I like them as well since they don't ask for money very often and even then just for a little bit. They can a neat Calendar as well. :)
 
Hawkmoon, not so, on November 2, 2005 Texas recognized licenses from Indiana, a state which requires no training.

msip, not so good as compared to up here, but the good news is that it's improving for you. That's progress; let's hope Texas and all states get a lot more progressive.:D
 
Since you are sad, are there any State level Dems you like? Most I see that are left are of the gun grabbing liberal variety. It would be nice if moderate/progressive Dems would get some of their party back.
 
fjolnirsson, actually, state parks in oregon are not off limits. Their website used to say they were but OFF cleared that up and the parks department removed the statement and appologized. Also, it is only the secure areas of a jail that are off limits, our sheriff's office is downstairs in the jail and that part is not off limits to carry.

One little known thing that IS off limits and is listed in ORS 821.240 is that it's illegal to carry a loaded weapon on an atv, no exception is listed for concealed carry licensees so that is off limits. It is listed as a class B traffic violation so it appears it isn't even a misdemenor.
 
Compared to Colorado, Texas' CCW permit sucks.

Compared to Kansas (where I lived most of my life) Texas' CCW permit is wonderful.

More and more I feel spoiled living here in Colorado ... other than VT/AK carry, I haven't seen another state with overall better CCW than here (of course I don't live in Denver, and avoid the place as much as possible).
 
Texas HB 823 - a Clarification

Texas Law has always provided a proviso - a Defense To Prosecution - in Vehicular Concealed Weapons Cases brought before the courts for prosecution.

The LAWFUL Carrying of a firearm while traveling in a motor vehicle in the State of Texas has ALWAYS been protected by this proviso. The proviso was the term TRAVELING. Anyone TRAVELING in the State of Texas was immune from prosecution for carrying a concealed weapon in their car - As long as they could provide proof of traveling.

The problem was that the term 'traveling' - prior to HB 823 - was, at best, vague and ambiguous. Overnight stays, crossing county lines and other dependencies left to much of the interpretation of the terms and dependencies to local law enforcement. That is no longer the case.

HB 823 merely Defines the term Traveling.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:

SECTION 1. Section 46.15, Penal Code, is amended by adding Subsection (i) to read as follows:​
(i) For purposes of Subsection (b)(3), a person is presumed to be traveling if the person is:​
(1) in a private motor vehicle;​
(2) not otherwise engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;​
(3) not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing a firearm;​
(4) not a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01; and​
(5) not carrying a handgun in plain view.​
There are additional added Presumptions at the conclusion of the Bill - relating to the applicability of the offense of unlawful carrying of weapons to certain persons and to the consequence of certain presumptions in the prosecution of a criminal offense - but are there merely to define the clauses listed above.

And YES - the presumption of innocence in any question to the above clauses trumps all.
 
Jeremywills

These No Smoking circle pictures with a Revolver in them are crap if not accompanied with the 30-06 signage in the appropiate size and exact wordage.

How big must the sign be to handle all of the language (in English & Spanish)? There's a sign with the 30.06 language at a local building that I visit quite often (in San Antonio), but the sign is only about 12"x10". I don't think that it is enough - what are your thoughts?
 
More and more I feel spoiled living here in Colorado ... other than VT/AK carry, I haven't seen another state with overall better CCW than here
I think Montana might be considered slightly better.

And from what I have heard, getting a CCW permit in New Hampshire is about like getting a license for your dog :)
 
How big must the sign be to handle all of the language (in English & Spanish)?

Not sure how big a sign would need to be, but the law specifies "block letters at least one inch in height".
 
Azrael256 said:
Anyway, "it never comes up" is exactly the point. I have seen two events wherein a CHL holder was approached by police for printing. One was the holder's father, who happened to be a cop, and the other was a friend who was politely informed by a Dallas officer that it might behoove him to pull his shirt down a little farther. The law says that you have to intentionally fail to conceal to commit a crime (otherwise it's an administrative offense), so your shirt riding up a little on a IWB concealment holster, or the wind blowing your unbuttoned jacked open to reveal your shoulder holster isn't a criminal offense.
Here in Michigan, it's NO offense at all. Which I suppose makes sense, since open carry is also legal here. ;)
 
TallPine said:
I think Montana might be considered slightly better.

And from what I have heard, getting a CCW permit in New Hampshire is about like getting a license for your dog :)
You mean I gotta get a rabies shot before I can get my CCW? ;)
 
Why the worry about carrying...

a handgun without a CHL? Just carry a shotgun or rifle........I see no problems with the TX CHL. I have been carrying since the license went into effect......One thing my CHL has done is to cut out having a beer after work or when out for dinner and such. I NEVER drink and drive now.........besides, drinks are alot cheaper at home.......chris3
 
Texas also has some rather restrictive/extensive requirements that must be met before they will issue a CCW permit.

Not really. For the most part if you can pass a NICS check you are okay on the CHL. No felonies, no violent misdemeanors, no back taxes, no unpaid child support, and no pending litigation. The best part is that the CHL allows you to fill out the 4473 and walk out with your gun without having to stand there and wait for the stupid NICS phone call. The worst part is that the background check will flag you on the fed homeland security computers. Since getting my CHL I have yet to board a plane without being subjected to the uber-tactical-air-nazi search. It seems to be a trend for me and my fellow permit holders regardless of state. Sigh.

The initial class, while required, is easily completed in a day and is just a recitation of the legal obligations of CHL holders (mostly about where you can or can't carry, and when you are justified in using deadly force). The shooting qualifications are simple. I've seen grannies with NO previous gun experience pass it with flying colors. The renewal class is only four hours and consists of a quick brushup on laws and any changes. Most instructors combine the classes and the qualifying sessions into one pleasant day.

The single best aspect of the Texas CHL is that the Texas DPS troopers know you are one of the good guys. It's the next best thing to a get-out-of-ticket-free card I've ever had. I don't drive like a maniac, but I do tend to pushe the envelope a bit on speed. Since getting my CHL I have yet to receive anything more stern than a written warning. In fact, most stops end with the trooper immediately handing back my license and CHL and telling me to "slow it down a little and have a nice day."

Brad
 
I have never recieved the patdown from the TSA goons. Probably just coincidence or some other guy with the same name is a "person of interest" on the secret, magic list.

My main compliant with the TX permit was the expense. Approx $250 total for TX and $25 for IN. I actually didn't mind the class so much because the laws are different here than in Indiana and it was nice to get them spelled out for me.

While I don't believe in a shooting test - seriously, if you can't pass the Texas test, you really don't have any business owning a gun.
 
My main compliant with the TX permit was the expense. Approx $250 total for TX and $25 for IN. I actually didn't mind the class so much because the laws are different here than in Indiana and it was nice to get them spelled out for me.

I agree...the idea of getting a permit to exercise a right is outrageous, but go fight it in court. Practically speaking, at this point in time that arguement is a loser. That being said, the $140 for the (initial) license is absurd, plus you have to pay for the class. I just got a NH non-resident carry license, to be able to carry in Alabama, and it was $20 and about 2 weeks worth of waiting.

While I don't believe in a shooting test - seriously, if you can't pass the Texas test, you really don't have any business owning a gun.

While that's true, I still don't want someone (especially a government someone) to tell me when I'm in my 80's that I can't own a gun because I'm too old or whatever. That's the time when my guns will be used for something other than putting holes in paper or breaking clay pigeons.
 
If loss of ability due to age is an issue, get an Indiana carry permit! No proficiency test is required. Indiana's permit system is one of the oldest and despite a few quirks it's one of the least restrictive

Getting IN permit does not seem to have put me on the TSA list, either. They do always do through my checked luggage in great detail. I suspect it has more to do with the dozen or so books and interesting electronic devices that I usually carry. That stuff probably looks pretty suspicious on the x-ray!

--Herself
 
LawDog said:
Just playing Devil's Advocate, but an argument can be made that well-regulated refers to training.

LawDog
That argument has been made, but inasmuch as the reference is part of the prefatory clause, the experts in English (even those who don't like the 2nd Amendment) agree that it does not affect the main clause.
 
Brad Johnson said:
The initial class, while required, is easily completed in a day and is just a recitation of the legal obligations of CHL holders (mostly about where you can or can't carry, and when you are justified in using deadly force). The shooting qualifications are simple. I've seen grannies with NO previous gun experience pass it with flying colors. The renewal class is only four hours and consists of a quick brushup on laws and any changes. Most instructors combine the classes and the qualifying sessions into one pleasant day.
My state is not generally considered to be among the most gun-fiendly, but our required class is only a half day (unless the individual instructor chooses to run it longer), and there is no requalification required to renew the license. To me, that makes Texas' requirements appear restrictive.
 
HB 823 merely Defines the term Traveling.
That is not correct. HB 823 does not define traveling.

It merely requires that if found with a gun in the car, the officer is to PRESUME you are traveling in the absence of evidence to the contrary. Here is a link and some direct quotes from one of the legislators who crafted the law.

http://www.tsra.com/HB823_Keel.htm
TX State Representative Terry Keel said:
In enacting HB 823, the 79th legislature, like all previous legislatures, declined to define traveling as a narrow set of particular circumstances. ... HB 823 does not give “everyone the right to carry a gun in a car”.
HB 832 does NOTHING to change the legality of carrying a gun in the car in TX. It simply requires the officer to presume your innocence unless there is evidence to the contrary.
 
Well, then...

JohnKSa -

Perhaps it is better characterized as Defining a Traveler...

HB 823 provides for a legal presumption in favor of citizens that they are travelers
Either way - It is a Defense To Prosecution - which is an after-the-fact provision.

Enjoy!
 
Well, sorta, I guess...

Really, rather than defining anything, it's simply stating that unless the state can prove otherwise, it must PRESUME that you are travelling.

It's not saying what a traveller is, or what travelling is, it just says that WHATEVER those things are, if you're in your car with a concealed handgun, the officer should assume you're innocent and let you go unless there is other evidence of criminal activity.

So, while the old traveling law was a defense to prosecution, the new law is a presumption of innocence. It is designed to prevent the arrest and prosecution of a citizen found to have a handgun in the car but not found to be committing any other crimes--to keep people from ever getting into court in the first place.
 
TallPine said:
I think Montana might be considered slightly better.

And from what I have heard, getting a CCW permit in New Hampshire is about like getting a license for your dog :)
Hmm ... Montana CCW is less expensive, however you can't carry in banks (which is just stupid) and bars (in Colorado you can CCW in a bar and even have a drink as long as you aren't "under the infuence").

It does look like the New Hampshire CCW is slightly better than Colorado (pretty much identical except that there is no training requirement and its only $10 for 4 years!).

Only thing better about Colorado is that you can CCW in your car here without a license.
 
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