Texas Elk Hunt

[Doc]

Mrs. doc and I went to IndianHead Ranch in Texas last week and had a great hunt.
I took and elk, Texas Dall and a silver fox. She took a nice axis buck.

Hunt photos are here: Elk & Axis Hunt 2003

 

[H&Hhunter]

Hey Doc!

I had this argument the other day.. What exactley is a Texas Dall? I thought they were a Barbado derivative.

Please shed some light on the subject.

 

[Art Eatman]

The only wild sheep native to Texas is the desert bighorn. By the 1920s they were pretty much wiped out by blue-tongue. There's a major restoration effort which at long last is beginning to work. Apparently the b-t virus/bug/whatever has finally died out of the soil.

Texas has beaucoup imported "exotics", which mostly can be hunted anytime. Mouflon are mostly regarded as pests.

Free-range elk are by permit only, and very, very few permits are given out.

Art

 

[H&Hhunter]

Art,

Thanks for that.

I guess my question is what did they cross breed to end up with a Texas Dall. I've heard they started with a Barbado (muflon). Is it just an albino derivative or what?

 

[Art Eatman]

Dangfino, H&H. They've been hauling foreign exotics into Texas since way, way back. Aoudad, mouflon, eland, blackbuck antelope, Axis, Himalayan mountain goat (four-foot horns; stand flat-footed and jump up onto an eight-foot-high shed), oryx...A goodly number of large Indian antelope down on the King Ranch. Lord only knows what else.

And African domestic cattle as well. Some guy leased a ranch not far from my place and has a couple-dozen Watusi cows he's breeding to longhorn bulls.

A lot of these game ranches have websites.

Art

 

[auschip]

Taken from http://www.battenkillhunt.com/index.cfm?c=67&a=91

The Texas dall (sometimes spelled "dahl") is a white or blonde-white sheep. It is thought to have originated as a cross between an Alaskan dall and a mouflon.

Texas dall rams are slightly larger than the black Hawaiian, and a mature ram weighs approximately 140-160 pounds. The winter coat of an adult ram will have a long mane, and the throat ruff can be long enough that it almost reaches the ground!

The horn growth and patterns of this sheep vary, depending on heredity and nutrition, but are similar to that of the black Hawaiian. This is a rare breed, and it makes a handsome trophy.

 

[Doc]

H&H
Auschip is pretty close to what I understand.

The original cross breeding was allegedly done at the YO ranch in Mountain Home, TX.
which was allegedly the "first" texas ranch to import foreign animals to hunt in texas.
They were undoubtably the largest goat ranch in the world and rivaled the King and Kennedy ranches in the 19th century. Now the YO is a shadow of its former self with about 10,000 acres.

I understand the Texas Dall to have been a cross between the actual Dall sheep (which allegedly did not do so well in texas) and a desert sheep but I do vouch for this story. If the native sheep died out in the 1920's it is unlikely they used native sheep as the original exotics did not arrive until the 1960's. I think the cross may well have been with the mouflan as auschip says.

As for the King and Kennedy ranches (and the 777) they all now have exotics and are the most reputable places to hunt a variety of game. For many of those species, they cannot be hunted in the wild of their native habitat as they are long extinct (BlackBuck, Axis and Oryx to name a few).

 

[Art Eatman]

The Depression cost the Schreiners a lot of the YO land. By the time I met "Charley 3" (Charles Schreiner III), the YO was some 50,000 acres. An old high school chum and another buddy were guides there, in the '70s. Sally the eland was browsing happily on scrub oak...

Texas Parks & Wildlife started trying to reintroduce desert bighorn back in the 1960s, but lions and residual blue tongue negated their efforts. Beginning in the 1980s, the results became more successful. Some bighorn from Nevada (IIRC) have been acquired by trade, with efforts continuing in the Sierra Diablo Game Management Area, at Elephant Mountain, and down in the Black Gap WMA east of Big Bend National Park.

(Blue tongue is a disease of domestic sheep, and is deadly for wild sheep.)

Art

 

[Grayrock]

Hey Art- you wouldn't know some guys of German ancestry in Kerrville that dabble in ranching and Model T's, would you?

 

[Art Eatman]

Naw, Grayrock, I just haven't spent much time around Kerrville for quite a while. Drove back through it, last trip, just to see what they've done at Schreiner Institute. I imagine most of the folks I knew are retired, moved away, or dead...

Art

 

[H&Hhunter]

Docs quote,
"For many of those species, they cannot be hunted in the wild of their native habitat as they are long extinct (BlackBuck, Axis and Oryx to name a few)".

Doc
I'm assuming you are talking about semitar horned oryx. You can sure hunt the three other species (besian, Fringed ear and Khalahri)in Africa. Or NM for that matter for the Kalahari.

Texas and their exotics have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that hunting is the ultimate conservation tool. I think that the three above mentioned species (blackbuck, axis, and semitar horned oryx) are irrefutable proof that when an animal has intrinsic value it will be protected. Hunters never shoot out all of the game, that would end hunting.

Animal rights wakos would stop hunting in areas that would result in every living animal to be killed because when they don't produce income they become pests. Kenya is a perfect example. Within 5 years of the sessatin of sport hunting there wasn't a big game animal left alive anywhere except a park or some sections of private land. The elephant and the rhino being the quickest to go.

Art.

Thank you for the information. I am fully aware of these ranches and the whole exotics scene in Texas. I was just interested in the one particular species called a Texas Dall and what kind of hybreeding it took to produce it

Doc, Auschip,

Thanks guys that's the information I was after. I have always wondered if the Texas Dall was actually cross breed with a real Dahl.

 

[Doc]

H&H:

yes you are correct, I was speaking of the simitar horned oryx only.
I know that efforts have been made to reintroduced the blackbuck
but am unaware of any such efforts for african species? do you know?

doc

 

[Art Eatman]

There's some large ranch in southwestern New Mexico where one of the dry-country African antelope has been established. Sorry; I don't remember which one--ranch or species.

Art

Just remembered: It's the nilghai on the King Ranch...

 

[H&Hhunter]

There's some large ranch in southwestern New Mexico where one of the dry-country African antelope has been established. Sorry; I don't remember which one--ranch or species.

just remembered: It's the nilghai on the King Ranch...

Art,

Nilghai is from india and the King ranch is in Texas.

But New Mexico does have quite a strong population of Oryx in the southern part of the state and they are on White Sands missle range as well as having migrated to many public and private ranchesn around the range.

New Mexico also has free ranging Barbary sheep and persian Ibex. The barbary are in both south central and north eatern NM. The persians are in the Floridas Mountains near Deming, NM.

They also released Kudu in NM back in the 70's but for some reason they didn't make it. They also released Siberian Ibex in the North Eastern corner of NM they have also petered out. But they did have a hunting season on them back in the 80's. My dad holds the current world record on Siberian Ibex shot in the Canadian River gorge. These were completely free ranging as were all of the exotic release animals in NM.

 

[Art Eatman]

Returning to Texas from a short course at Col. State, I wandered over from I-25 to Red River, and then south a ways, winding up heading east from Wagonmound. The Canadian River escarpment was very impressive.

Thanx for reminding me it's the oryx that's around southern NM. Didn't know they'd gotten over to White Sands.

The Intracoastal Waterway runs alongside the King Ranch; you see the occasional nilghai while boating along. One of the TFL guys from Indiana (? IIRC) got to hunt them, there. I think he used a .338.

Art

 

[H&Hhunter]

Art,

The Oryx along with several other species were introduced into NM by the NM Dept of Game &Fish. They were released on public or military land back in the 70's as a scheme to attract out of state hunters to NM.

Oryx were released in the White Sands missle range area because of it's simularity to the Kalahari Desert. They can be hunted by draw permit on the missile range. I drew a tag back in 1993. It is a once in a life time draw. I shot a very nice 39" bull. (pictured below)

Since then a number of oryx have migrated off the range into public and private land around the range and can be hunted either on a land owner permit or by draw off the range on deperdation tags which are not limited to how many times an individual can draw.

The state of NM also released Barbary, Siberiean Ibex, Persian Ibex and Kudu all on public land. The Persian Ibex may be hunted by draw only and the Barbary can be hunted on an over the counter tag the season is from Jan 15-feb-15th. Or they can be hunted congruant with deer season in some units.

These are not ranch hunts they are fair chase on open land and these critters are wiley.

the Kudu and Siberiean Ibex didn't make it. I have good information however that a few Siberien Ibex still exist in the Canadian river area of NM.
As far as Kudu go, if you're ever hunting in the SW corner of NM and run into one don't be surprised and now you know the rest of the story.

 

[Art Eatman]

Nice critter! Those horns have always appealed to my sense of aesthetics...

In Texas, the axis deer are probably the most common insofar as having gotten into a free-range condition. Since the state makes no claim on them, there's no season, limit, nor control as to time of day.

A buddy of mine moved to the CenTex hill country, and chuckled about the axis deer wandering through his property: "Nice to be able to shoot one, any time of day or night, when I'm hungry. Of course, I feel like I oughta lie down alongside him when I gut him out."

Old poachers never die...

Art