Texas - What is a Mental Health Check traffic stop???

[cassandrasdaddy]

made me think

Always a scary thing! While I do see the point of the guys right to be left alone I've gotta go with trying to protect him at his families request.I've had to do the same thing for a family member and the police likely saved his life.I'm not quite ready to let someone die cause the decided to come off their meds for a few days. And in my families case we believe that hes gotten 20 more good years on his life so far. Interestingly enough that was his last episode, hes stayed on his meds since then.Far better to call the cops and alert them to a sick persons condition so they can respond kindly and not have a tragedy where mental illness is confused for belligerant aggression.And in this case thankfully no one got killrd on either side, its a real tricky situation.

There was a case on tv, las vegas swat team called in by mom her son with a shot gun basically did suicide by cop. they had footage from coroners inquest where the officer had to testify with guys mom in front row. Made a lasting impression on me. Most impressed with what mom said she understood why they did it and held no grudge.I hope the cop heard her, he obviously was troubled by it greatly.

 

[LightningJoe]

I can't recall the exact wording of the statute. Actually, I think it might be in the Constitution. Sam Houston would often say things like, "In his tent with a big box of opium and Emily Morgan? What a chump!" and things like that.

 

[Art Eatman]

Sam Houston, huh? Not even I was around, then...

,, Art

 

[ilbob]

The police acted within the law to pull him over and check out the behavior reported by witnesses (the family).

So I can call 911 and report you are acting crazy and this is justification for LE to shoot you?

Valid stop or not, you have to interact with the police when they stop you.

Your best bet is to say little or nothing, and to interact as little as possible while making it clear you are completely uninterested in interacting with them.

If they have nothing, THEN you can drive away.

After they give you permission of course. Nothing like being stopped for no reason at all and then being "allowed" to continue on your way. Nice to know we are a free country. Why is it we tolerate elected officials that allow this kind of thing?

I will grant that there may be cases where someone is legitimately behaving in a way that endangers others and needs to be stopped. Stopping them when no one else is being endangers seems dubious.

 

[FTF]

I'm not saying the circumstances leading up to this were shady or not...

BUT...

I watched this on TV and this dude stepped out, well after being shot the first time, and commenced to issue beatdowns on people with guns drawn. There was nothing rational about this man. Either he was extremely crazy or extremely prone to violence. He made absolutely no attempt to surrender like he was innocent... he definitely went down fighting... and it wasn't resisting arrest.. it was pure offense.

I'm the last one to stick up for cops... but this one was legit. If the helicopter wasn't on scene he would have been down like Rodney King...

 

[Art Eatman]

ilbob, have you thoroughly read through the thread? The guy was said to have tried to run over a cop with the car, at which time the shot was fired. What do you expect?

Sane people see the bubble gums in the mirror and pull over, right? The suspected nutzoid behaved in nutzoid fashion.

When you do get stopped, by wreck or however, do you think it wise to jump out and fight?

If you have behaved in a sane manner, and the cops observe nothing in the way of a problem, you're then free to resume your doings. Not greatly different from accidental speeding or some minor vehicle equipment infraction. It's your own behavior that determines the outcome.

Art

 

[LAK]

Something mentioned in the articles; "he fought with officers" made me chuckle a bit. In the video film I have seen it is more like "officer" singular; perhaps the others were waiting to see how the one faired first that was swinging around Warfield's neck.

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http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Wiley]

Art, Have YOU read the entire thread?

From the posted accounts:

[yorick's posted account:]

According to reports, officers attempted to stop the man on a mental health check.

[Double Naught Spy's posted account: ]

The chase began shortly before 9 a.m., when police were called to conduct a welfare check on Mr. Warfield's mental condition.

and

"One of Warfield's family members was concerned over his mental condition," ... The family member was requesting us to stop him, believing him to be a danger to himself."

The only reason the this whole incident occured is that one family member called the police and they decided to protect an individual. Prior to the police trying to stop and talk to Warfield what crime had been committed? What aspect of Society needed to be protected?

Or do the police now have a duty to protect the individual?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

serve

protect and serve was the way i heard it. many if not most police activity is of the nature of service. if i call em and say i'm worried about my elderly dad they will run a car by to check on him, What is it that you see so wrong about that?Are you of the position that if they see someone about to jump off a bridge they should let them?I can undestand the philosophy behind that line of thinking just don't believe its a philosophy that translates well into practice.

 

[strambo]

"One of Warfield's family members was concerned over his mental condition," Sgt. Dearing said. "He had been seen stopping in the middle of the freeway and getting out of his vehicle. The family member was requesting us to stop him, believing him to be a danger to himself."

What crime did he commit? The part carebear previously, and myself now underlined. Stopping in the middle of the freeway and exiting your vehicle is a crime that endangers everyone else on the freeway. That's why reckless driving is a crime, it violates the rights of others by putting them in needless danger of losing their "right to life". The police pulled him over for his reckless actions as well as the "welfare check" and he fled. Had he not been doing reckless things, the police would have just wanted to talk to him. If he did not behave in a way dangerous to himself or others (both crimes), he could leave.

The police have every right to ask questions and check on anybody and you have the right to respond, or not, as long as they don't have PC to detain you. If you are ACTING in a reckless manner, they have PC to detain you. If you are not ACTING recklessly or as a danger to yourself and others, they will say "have a good evening." I capitalized "acting" because they do not psychoanalyze you to see if you meet some nebulous definition of crazy. They base their response on behavior. If you are talking to the voices, but able to take care of yourself and not threatening to harm yourself or someone else...they can't detain you.

This isn't a slippery slope and he wasn't pulled over just because of the families' say so. Had he been in control of himself irregardless of his mental aptitude (or political leanings ) they would have let him go. A family saying your nuts may be enough for a cop to come up and say "hi", but your actions prior (according to witnesses) and certainly while you are talking to the officer will determine what course he is legally justified to take.

 

[seeker_two]

I can't recall the exact wording of the statute. Actually, I think it might be in the Constitution. Sam Houston would often say things like, "In his tent with a big box of opium and Emily Morgan? What a chump!" and things like that.

Here's a link to the Texas Statutes. I can't find the "chump" law anywhere. Maybe you could show us...

I'm with Art on this one....I don't think Sam Houston was doing too many traffic stops back in the day....

 

[seeker_two]

No offense, but a literalist might think you're posting like a chump. Could go either way. Depends on the DA. You'd probably better turn yourself in. It'll look better that way.

Maybe....but since I don't see the flashing lights of the San Jacinto PD in my rear view mirror, I'll proceed with my life as before....

BTW, how's that study of the Texas statutes going?...

 

[LightningJoe]

Well, it's kind of common law. Everybody knows it.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

No Lightning Joe, I think you are about the only one who has insight into chump law. I certainly had never heard of it and I was born here 42 years ago. On top of that, my pop was a cop who taught me to drive. He didn't cover it with me, nor did the driver's ed. folks, and my frequent visiting to defensive driving have never yielded information on such a law.

You are going to have to find the exact statute. Otherwise, what it sounds like you are doing is repeating an urban myth.

 

[The Guy]

Will someone define "chump" for me please? I think we all have a pretty concurring mental picture of one, but maybe differing on the small details. If a "chump" can be defined in a court of law, there must be a strict definition that one must fall into to be offically a "chump". Is there a Texas state registry of offical "chumps", kinda like the sex offenders? Some how I would think that N.J. or N.Y.C. would have a much higher ratio of "chumps" for the local creitin than Texas. I never would have thought that so many "chumps" could wind up in one state durring the great "chump" migration as to cause such legal havoc to be defined, categorized, and regulated.

Sorry all, you can have your thread back now.

P.S. My idea of a "chump" is the mental human equvalent of a buck-tooth grinning chimanzie wearing a beannie (a green one with a prop on top) and glasses, pulling poo out of the back of his blue overalls (no shirt) to throw at any bystander, innocent or not, while hanging from a tree over a sidewalk downtown.

 

[Erebus]

All right you chumps wanna get back on topic?

The police got a report of a specific indovidual with a history of mental illness stopping his car in traffic on a highway and getting out. And they tried to pull him over.

Someone want to explain the problem here?

 

[JohnBT]

Some people just hate cops I guess.

If the police hadn't followed up on the relative's call and he'd run somebody over they'd be screaming about how incompetent the cops were.

John

 

[shield20]

I will give you some examples of "a chump"...

People who think that when a 'complaint' is made about an individual, that the cops have no right to try to stop/intervene/interview said person unless he has committed a crime. Almost as chumpish is someone who thinks if someone calls the cops requesting they check on a particular person, those cops have NO right to do so if that particular person has not commited a crime. Also, a chump can be someone who thinks when the cops have you in a vehicle stop - which means you are under arrest, that you are free to leave any time YOU want to. A 3rd example would be someone who thinks trying to run down a cop after leading them on a pursuit is not a justifable use of deadly force situation on the part of said cop(s).

 

[LightningJoe]

Oh, get real. I said lawyers jump up and say "Objection, the witness is acting like a chump" and you take that seriously? Did you ever see that on Perry Mason? I thought I might pull a few out-of-state chains, but the froogin' Texans are confused. I quit. I'm moving to Oklahoma.

 

[Bob R]

I'm moving to Oklahoma

Just leave the chumps behind. I left Oklahoma because of all the chumps that are already there!

bob

 

[deadin]

Oh for Pete's sake,

"Hello? 911? There's a rabid dog in our neighborhood."

"Sir, how do you know it's rabid?"

"Well, it's foaming at the mouth and acting strange."

"Sir, are you a veterinary?"

"No"

"Well then, you aren't qualified to determine the dogs condition. You will need to go out and if it bites you, then we can respond."

Give me a break.

Dean

 

[LightningJoe]

Well, one time I was at a gas station in Howe and a woman drove up and asked me if I knew where a particular street was. I said I didn't know and she asked me, "Well, am I still in Oklahoma?"


Damn. That lady was driving like a chump. I should've arrested her.


Edit: Howe is a small town perceptibly inside Texas and reachable from Oklahoma only by driving through the entire city of Sherman.

 

[Art Eatman]

bothersome when the software quits allowing the use of "edit" to delete stuff.

But, reading on down, there's no point to all this stuff continuing, so it won't.

, Art