Powderman
Member
And that says it all.
Spot on, my friend. Spot on.
(SC) Lt. Gov. held at gunpoint in traffic stop
- Thread starter Drizzt
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And that says it all.
Spot on, my friend. Spot on.
Funny, but from following your posts, I always get the feeling you're asking for a pat on the back for LE and that LEOs have a good chance of becoming Pope, being infallible and all.
At least then I'd only have to kiss their ring.
"People are people first and foremost."
Right you are, so we can expect LEOs, like many other groups, to form cliques that hold others in low regard.
TheeBadOne
Member
CZ-75
Not at all, just asking for a fair shake. Read your posts and show me a fair shake. I'll accept links.
All the best
Orthonym
Member
Where can I get ME some o' that there sovereign immunity?
Seems to be a pretty powerful, heady drug! As Chase said to Hawn in the movie, "Cops really DO have the best dope!" As to my own sentiments, I agree with this fellow:
"I don't hate the police, but I am afraid of them."-Alfred Hitchcock.
Seems to be a pretty powerful, heady drug! As Chase said to Hawn in the movie, "Cops really DO have the best dope!" As to my own sentiments, I agree with this fellow:
"I don't hate the police, but I am afraid of them."-Alfred Hitchcock.
brownie0486
Member
Tell it to the widows of the LE's who have sacrificed their lives in the line of duty so you may live comfortably in peace.
None here mentioned cops being infallable, thats your jaded take on LE's attitudes and another example of your "fair shake" showing the disdain you have for them in general.
Actually I think a few here could not do the job even if they were thrown a bone and given the job of an LE. They would not be able to stand the command structure at the least of it.
Brownie
None here mentioned cops being infallable, thats your jaded take on LE's attitudes and another example of your "fair shake" showing the disdain you have for them in general.
Actually I think a few here could not do the job even if they were thrown a bone and given the job of an LE. They would not be able to stand the command structure at the least of it.
Brownie
TheeBadOne
Member
And from the movie Superman, "You''ll believe a man can fly"...
Tell it to the widows and surviving family members of those mistakenly, even criminally, shot by LEOs.
I take responsibility for my own safety through exercising my RKBA. I don't expect the police to protect me and SCOTUS has even held that LE has no specific duty to protect an individual.
TheeBadOne
Member
Crystal clear view to your insight. Not one hint of consolation/empathy for LEO's and their familys, but plenty for others, EVEN CRIMINALS.
Once again, it's spelled B I A S
:banghead: brownie0486
Member
TheeBadOne:
Good use of the emoticons at the end of your last post sir.
My sentiments exactly.
Brownie
Good use of the emoticons at the end of your last post sir.
My sentiments exactly.
Brownie
Tell it to the Weaver family. I suppose Vicki Weaver was a criminal?
The only criminals at Ruby Ridge wore badges.
As to empathy, I suppose I should feel bad for the victims someplace like Bangladesh when a quarter-million drown during the storm surge from a cyclone, but I don't. Too abstract. Same with the widows and orphans of whom you speak. The only thing that gets an emotional response from me is malfeasance by those who abuse their power.
I suppose the folks of Tulia, TX have a high opinion of LEOs right about now, too.
brownie0486
Member
CZ-75:
Listing a little too far to starboard again I think. Time to stand up and be counted.
Why don't you come on down to the defensive knife class I'm holding in So. Cal in Nov./03. Two days of hands on punishment, ahh, fun, think you can handle it?
As you state: "I take responsibility for my own safety", lets see what you got their son. I'm just a little old man, you should not have any problem with keeping you butt safe from an old man now right? After all you do take responsivbility for your own safety. Any weapons system should be adequate for you.
Don't like knives, let use the sticks; don't like the sticks, how about a cane; don't like the cane, how about unconventional weapons. Don't like any of these choices? Pick one you do like and we can play. Last man standing wins. Each will be responsible for their own medical bills. No running away and looking for an officer to cry to, which you wouldn't do anyway as you take responsibility for your own saftey.
It's pretty easy from the armchair to make those claims [ taking responsibility for ones own safety ], lets see if you have developed the skills to survive on your own [ which you would have as you take the responsibility on yourself to survive ], mano o mano. I promise I won't cry if you won't.
I won't feel bad if you decline as it doesn't meet your scheduling or whatever. If that is the answer, I'd like to hear about all the things you have done to protect yourself and survive. Care to list any at all?
This isn't a challenge, it's an invite to be involved in some "fun" I find too many who believe they take the responsibility to survive upon themselves have very little or none of the training or skills necessary to do so.
Been there and done that, how about you?
Brownie
Listing a little too far to starboard again I think. Time to stand up and be counted.
Why don't you come on down to the defensive knife class I'm holding in So. Cal in Nov./03. Two days of hands on punishment, ahh, fun, think you can handle it?
As you state: "I take responsibility for my own safety", lets see what you got their son. I'm just a little old man, you should not have any problem with keeping you butt safe from an old man now right? After all you do take responsivbility for your own safety. Any weapons system should be adequate for you.
Don't like knives, let use the sticks; don't like the sticks, how about a cane; don't like the cane, how about unconventional weapons. Don't like any of these choices? Pick one you do like and we can play. Last man standing wins. Each will be responsible for their own medical bills. No running away and looking for an officer to cry to, which you wouldn't do anyway as you take responsibility for your own saftey.
It's pretty easy from the armchair to make those claims [ taking responsibility for ones own safety ], lets see if you have developed the skills to survive on your own [ which you would have as you take the responsibility on yourself to survive ], mano o mano. I promise I won't cry if you won't.
I won't feel bad if you decline as it doesn't meet your scheduling or whatever. If that is the answer, I'd like to hear about all the things you have done to protect yourself and survive. Care to list any at all?
This isn't a challenge, it's an invite to be involved in some "fun" I find too many who believe they take the responsibility to survive upon themselves have very little or none of the training or skills necessary to do so.
Been there and done that, how about you?
Brownie
Orthonym
Member
brownie, CZ, I agree with both of you.
Here, look at this:
"... It is widely thought that modern society made a conscious decision that the civil rights and civil liberties of citizens would be best protected if only professional police had law enforcement powers. But the continued vitality of the power of citizen's arrest-- a substantial private prerogative whose history is firmly rooted in the middle ages and is still available in some form in every American jurisdiction-- proves that citizens did not abandon their rights to self-protection from anxiety about amateurs abusing law enforcement powers. Indeed, it was CUPIDITY, PUSILLANIMITY, & SLOTH (emphasis mine-Orthonym) --not idealism-- that led us to entrust our safety to professional police officers. As the short narrative to follow will amply demonstrate, we delegated law enforcement duties because the average citizen is too busy, too lazy, too indifferent and often too frightened to do the necessary policing himself."
from ppg 30-31, "Take Back Your Neighborhood"
by Richard Neely, Chief Justice, WV Supreme Court
Donald I. Fine, Inc. , New York City 1990
ISBN: 1-55611-182-7
There, I hope that's not too much to be "fair use". Those copyright cops are the REALLY scary ones!
Here, look at this:
"... It is widely thought that modern society made a conscious decision that the civil rights and civil liberties of citizens would be best protected if only professional police had law enforcement powers. But the continued vitality of the power of citizen's arrest-- a substantial private prerogative whose history is firmly rooted in the middle ages and is still available in some form in every American jurisdiction-- proves that citizens did not abandon their rights to self-protection from anxiety about amateurs abusing law enforcement powers. Indeed, it was CUPIDITY, PUSILLANIMITY, & SLOTH (emphasis mine-Orthonym) --not idealism-- that led us to entrust our safety to professional police officers. As the short narrative to follow will amply demonstrate, we delegated law enforcement duties because the average citizen is too busy, too lazy, too indifferent and often too frightened to do the necessary policing himself."
from ppg 30-31, "Take Back Your Neighborhood"
by Richard Neely, Chief Justice, WV Supreme Court
Donald I. Fine, Inc. , New York City 1990
ISBN: 1-55611-182-7
There, I hope that's not too much to be "fair use". Those copyright cops are the REALLY scary ones!
brownie0486
Member
Orthonym:
Thanks for the post, had not seen that before but it sounds valid.
Brownie
Thanks for the post, had not seen that before but it sounds valid.
Brownie
brownie0486
Member
BOBE:
No, no double standard, he was being an idiot driving like that blowing stop signs and endangering the public [ my opinion based on the stated facts of the incident ].
If I had stopped him in my state he would have been charged [ as the facts have been stated which may or not be correct ]with speeding, failure to stop for signals [ lights ], and potentially driving to endanger. Everyone would face the same charges with me as my mandate is to uphold the laws of the Commonwealth and ensure the public safety.
The driving to endager only applies if it is over an amount of speed past the posted limit so I can not say whether he would have been charged with that as well.
In Mass. we have "may" laws and "shall" laws. The may laws mean I have discretion in the matter as to whether to write/arrest or not. The shall laws give me no leeway and I must arrest/act according to the law if a violation of such a statute has occured.
So in my state, I could let you go on the speeding, I could let you go on blowing the stop sign, I could let you go on driving to endanger [ not arrest, but you would be cited at the scene and be making an appearance before the judge to answer that citation], however I can let you leave with the citation without taking your freedom away [ arresting ]you.
BTW--not all mistakes are made by idiots, but in this case as the facts were laid out, he was suffering from serious brainfade [ idiotism ].
Fair enough, covered your question?
Brownie
No, no double standard, he was being an idiot driving like that blowing stop signs and endangering the public [ my opinion based on the stated facts of the incident ].
If I had stopped him in my state he would have been charged [ as the facts have been stated which may or not be correct ]with speeding, failure to stop for signals [ lights ], and potentially driving to endanger. Everyone would face the same charges with me as my mandate is to uphold the laws of the Commonwealth and ensure the public safety.
The driving to endager only applies if it is over an amount of speed past the posted limit so I can not say whether he would have been charged with that as well.
In Mass. we have "may" laws and "shall" laws. The may laws mean I have discretion in the matter as to whether to write/arrest or not. The shall laws give me no leeway and I must arrest/act according to the law if a violation of such a statute has occured.
So in my state, I could let you go on the speeding, I could let you go on blowing the stop sign, I could let you go on driving to endanger [ not arrest, but you would be cited at the scene and be making an appearance before the judge to answer that citation], however I can let you leave with the citation without taking your freedom away [ arresting ]you.
BTW--not all mistakes are made by idiots, but in this case as the facts were laid out, he was suffering from serious brainfade [ idiotism ].
Fair enough, covered your question?
Brownie
Kali, eh? Or is it MA?
Either way, it explains why you can't tell a libertarian from a leftist and think Statism is the normal order of things.
You buy my plane ticket (from Atlanta) and pay for the room, give me tuition remission, and I'll come. Otherwise, I can spend my vacation leave on vacation with family. Perhaps attend a racing/driving school.
Not hanging with scumbags or going to bad neighborhoods is a start. Carrying is another. Watching potential scumbags like a hawk so they know they aren't going to take me by surprise is another. Having about six inches height over most folks is another. Not using substances than a beer or two every month is another. Avoiding confrontations is another.
brownie0486
Member
Live in Mass and train across the US as needed.
One of my good friends is a libertarian, heads the states party as a coordinator. I can tell what one is, I know the ideology quite well.
Though situational awareness is a start, and carrying is one option [ I assume you meant carry a gun by "carrying" ] it is not enough. Avoidance is good as well but not always possible.
Any h2h, weapons training? Carrying a gun and being able to use it tactically are not the same. I see people in front of me during the knife training that carry and haven't any formal training or practice enough to be proficient in a defensive scenario.
So you really are saying you avoid trouble when possible [ which will never be all the time ], you "carry" and don't drink often. Thats the extent of the way in which you take responsibility for your security?
Lets just assume you know what you are doing with a firearm. Think you can beat the guy with a knife at 10 feet? 20 feet? how about up close and personal in your face distance? No h2h? Just your physical presence which you mentioned as a deterrent [ I presume ]?
Sounds like you have decided on one weapons platform to the exclsuion of all other options available to you. Is that taking responsibility for your own security? Not completely to my thinking.
I can get you before you can yank the heater everytime from 15 feet away with the knife before you can draw and fire. Look up the Tueller drill if you are unfamiliar with it.
Relying on one weapons system all the time for your safety is not taking adequate responsibility for your safety, it's using the firearm as a crutch where you lull yourself into believing the gun beats everything else [consequently the exclusion of that weapon in your bag of tricks ].
So you may feel you take responsibility for your security but we see that you only carry it to the level of the gun used mainly as a mental crutch for lack of real martial skills [ though the gun is martial, I would guess from your posts you have no real skills at self defense of yourself or a family member with it.
As I stated, you have only begun to get serious, and thats if you have some real formal training on the guns.
Here I offer you an opportunity to share the experience of the defensve knife and you want a free ride. Is that a libertarian thing? Isn't that what you are accusing the cops who are issued mp5's of, a free ride on anothers dime?
I gladly paid to go where the best training was made available in each type of weapons system I am adept in. Thousands in travel, tuitions, weapons to get where I stand today, and thats after the military gave me some specific skills as well [and no they weren't free, I paid for that training in blood and sweat ].
I suggest instead of going on vacation with the family this year you attend someones class on a different weapons system than the firearm, or get more time in with a qulality shooting instructor. Either way,until you have more than you have now you are nor considered to be taking responsible measures to further your security. As you'll remember before I heard from you about your martial experience I said that most have very little knowledge in the ways of personal security, and I apparently was correct where you are concerned.
I like big guys in the classes, they usually whine the most when being thrown around. Sorta sounds like fun doesn't it?
Brownie
One of my good friends is a libertarian, heads the states party as a coordinator. I can tell what one is, I know the ideology quite well.
Though situational awareness is a start, and carrying is one option [ I assume you meant carry a gun by "carrying" ] it is not enough. Avoidance is good as well but not always possible.
Any h2h, weapons training? Carrying a gun and being able to use it tactically are not the same. I see people in front of me during the knife training that carry and haven't any formal training or practice enough to be proficient in a defensive scenario.
So you really are saying you avoid trouble when possible [ which will never be all the time ], you "carry" and don't drink often. Thats the extent of the way in which you take responsibility for your security?
Lets just assume you know what you are doing with a firearm. Think you can beat the guy with a knife at 10 feet? 20 feet? how about up close and personal in your face distance? No h2h? Just your physical presence which you mentioned as a deterrent [ I presume ]?
Sounds like you have decided on one weapons platform to the exclsuion of all other options available to you. Is that taking responsibility for your own security? Not completely to my thinking.
I can get you before you can yank the heater everytime from 15 feet away with the knife before you can draw and fire. Look up the Tueller drill if you are unfamiliar with it.
Relying on one weapons system all the time for your safety is not taking adequate responsibility for your safety, it's using the firearm as a crutch where you lull yourself into believing the gun beats everything else [consequently the exclusion of that weapon in your bag of tricks ].
So you may feel you take responsibility for your security but we see that you only carry it to the level of the gun used mainly as a mental crutch for lack of real martial skills [ though the gun is martial, I would guess from your posts you have no real skills at self defense of yourself or a family member with it.
As I stated, you have only begun to get serious, and thats if you have some real formal training on the guns.
Here I offer you an opportunity to share the experience of the defensve knife and you want a free ride. Is that a libertarian thing? Isn't that what you are accusing the cops who are issued mp5's of, a free ride on anothers dime?
I gladly paid to go where the best training was made available in each type of weapons system I am adept in. Thousands in travel, tuitions, weapons to get where I stand today, and thats after the military gave me some specific skills as well [and no they weren't free, I paid for that training in blood and sweat ].
I suggest instead of going on vacation with the family this year you attend someones class on a different weapons system than the firearm, or get more time in with a qulality shooting instructor. Either way,until you have more than you have now you are nor considered to be taking responsible measures to further your security. As you'll remember before I heard from you about your martial experience I said that most have very little knowledge in the ways of personal security, and I apparently was correct where you are concerned.
I like big guys in the classes, they usually whine the most when being thrown around. Sorta sounds like fun doesn't it?
Brownie
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Nope. The driver sped up and ran a second red light.
So Brownie, you are challenging another THR member to a duel because he is not worthy. Us commoners can't hold a candle to the almighty trained cop.
I see where people get the idea that cops are nothing more than egotistical a$$holes with a badge.
I see where people get the idea that cops are nothing more than egotistical a$$holes with a badge.
Orthonym
Member
Standing Wolf, you may be almost as bad as I am.
That's not an air bag, that's an EXPLODING SAFETY CUSHION!-self
That's not an air bag, that's an EXPLODING SAFETY CUSHION!-self
Orthonym
Member
Uhhh... This is the HIGH road, right,
so do we call the fire department or do what Gulliver did when the King of Lilliput's palace caught fire?
so do we call the fire department or do what Gulliver did when the King of Lilliput's palace caught fire?
TheeBadOne
Member
scottgun
You can call it anyway you see it. To me I see someone putting forth info/ideas as facts, and backing them by saying they "have some knowledge". Brownie is offering a forum in the real world to demonstrate this "knowledge" first hand. On the internet everyone is an expert, in the real world things are much different. I see no problem with brownies post. He didnt' threaten anyone, and as stated it's in a training environment (classroom), not some back alley brawl or pistols at 50 ft. Actully it's quite nice to invite someone to partake in quality training (hard enought to find, harder to afford). Relax
All The Best
You can call it anyway you see it. To me I see someone putting forth info/ideas as facts, and backing them by saying they "have some knowledge". Brownie is offering a forum in the real world to demonstrate this "knowledge" first hand. On the internet everyone is an expert, in the real world things are much different. I see no problem with brownies post. He didnt' threaten anyone, and as stated it's in a training environment (classroom), not some back alley brawl or pistols at 50 ft. Actully it's quite nice to invite someone to partake in quality training (hard enought to find, harder to afford). Relax
All The Best
brownie0486
Member
scottgun:
Your words, not mine.
I invited him to a class to see what he had. Does that mean I'm dueling every student in class? Apparently you think so.
Ya, I've run into a few of those guys over the years myself during my travels training LE's.
Better check with that crystal ball again. Seems it may be broken.
Brownie
Your words, not mine.
I invited him to a class to see what he had. Does that mean I'm dueling every student in class? Apparently you think so.
Ya, I've run into a few of those guys over the years myself during my travels training LE's.
Better check with that crystal ball again. Seems it may be broken.
Brownie
I've had a problem with a police officer going through an intersection in an umarked police car almost running me down. When stopped and handcuffed they said why don't you respect the police, I answered "you were in an unmarked police car and almost ran me over" their reply was don't you disrepsect the police, you should know better. I'm sorry, If a car is running me down in an intersection without any lights on, I am going to be ticked.
So I have a predisposition to disliking police officers, its based on experience. It seems all too common.
You are enforcing laws created by corrupt policitans. You are pawns in the game. I can respect your good intentions. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
So I have a predisposition to disliking police officers, its based on experience. It seems all too common.
You are enforcing laws created by corrupt policitans. You are pawns in the game. I can respect your good intentions. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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