The 25-06

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jmr40 said:
Every time I look at 25-06 I keep coming to the conclusion that it doesn't do anything I couldn't do as well or better with a fast twist 243. The 243 shoots the same, or similar bullets weights 100-150 fps slower, or bullets 10gr lighter to the same speed. On larger game the 25-06 looks slightly better at the muzzle, but the higher BC 243 bullets pass it at 250-300 yards. With lighter bullets and smaller varmints 243 wins easily.



Technically possible and it would work, but why reinvent the wheel. In the real world of today, rifles and good loads are already available in 24, 26, 28, 30 and 33 caliber. No reason it couldn't be done with 25 and 27 calibers too. Someone could fill an even smaller niche with 23,and 29 calibers. We don't have those yet. But I just don't see the market. The 25-06 and 270, even 30-06 will slowly become less relevant as a new generation of shooters move toward more modern rifles and loads. Short action rifles firing high BC bullets in fast twist barrels at moderate speeds are the future. And to be honest I think it is a better trend than the magnum craze of previous generations.
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I felt the same way about the .25s vs the 6 and 6.5s....no real reason for the .25s
But then I realized for what i do anything from 22 to .375 (well really anything 22 or larger) will work fine, and i might as well try different options just cause they are cool. Thats why i built my .250AI....from my .243
I also have a 6-284, and a 6.5-284, ive had a 6.5 CM. I havent shot anything with the 6 and 6.5-.284s (hopefully next week). Im always looking for a 7mm-08.
I like the 7mm remington magnum, and just traded my .45 for Ruger American Magnum (cause i wanted to try that rifle model as well) in 7mm. Even tho i can equal trajectory with 20grns less bullet, and 20grn less powder, from my 6.5-284.
Heck im building a .375 Ruger.
End of the day shoot what you want, there are other choices, and rarely any truly bad ones.

rizbunk77 said:
Anybody try these?
https://www.speer-ammo.com/bullets/rifle-bullets/boat-tail-rifle-bullets/257/257-120-bt-sp-bullet
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I havent shot those particular bullets, but i do shoot Speer btsp in other calibers. They are generally very accurate, perform well on game, and are cheap. Dont believe Speers BC listings and tho.
 
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jmr40 said:
Every time I look at 25-06 I keep coming to the conclusion that it doesn't do anything I couldn't do as well or better with a fast twist 243. The 243 shoots the same, or similar bullets weights 100-150 fps slower, or bullets 10gr lighter to the same speed. On larger game the 25-06 looks slightly better at the muzzle, but the higher BC 243 bullets pass it at 250-300 yards. With lighter bullets and smaller varmints 243 wins easily.
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Every time you post the above (and it has been many times) it makes me wonder about a few things. What fast twist are you referring to in a .243, 1:7 would be my guess. Nothing wrong so far but I like Remington and Winchester rifles and they are all I own. Winchester offers the .243 in 1:10 and Remington offers it in 1:9 1/8. Not quite what is needed for the heavy/long bullets you appear to favor. So, now the choice comes down to either buying a make of rifle you don't like or have one you like re-barreled.

As a general rule most rifles shoot their best accuracy wise with the slowest twist that will still stabilize the bullet being used for the given working range of distance. It makes the most sense to me that you should first decide what you intend to kill and then select a bullet and the twist is really a follow on. I just can't see picking a match bullet for hunting because it has the best BC. Of course that thinking would be great for the bullet manufacturers, they would only need 1 bullet per caliber and they could get rid of their tech dept as there would be no need to suggest bullets to customers for what they intend to hunt.

I'm a relic, I pick a rifle, caliber and bullet for what I intend to hunt or shoot.
 
Consider the 25-06 to be a 120% scale 243. Yes the 243 can shoot heavy match bullets with a 1:8 twist but the standard 243 hunting bullet is and will continue to be a 100 grain soft point. The standard 25-06 hunting bullet is and will continue to be a 120 gr soft point. We can go around in circles about this can do that and that can do this but the 25-06 works, it has been working for a long time, and will continue to do so for at least a few more decades. It actually surprises me how many rifles are still chambered in 25-06 but evidently people are still buying them.
 
^ that long tube coupled with a slow powder would likely allow the 25-06 to really shine. Be interesting to see what retumbo behind a 120 would do....gonna go play with quickloads now....
 
The .25-06 is not a popular cartridge in Maine. A few years after they became popular in other states and people started buying them here, many guys decided they didn't like the cartridge for Maine deer hunting and traded them for rifles with more popular deer cartridges, like .270, .308, and 30-06. Many dealers stopped taking them in trade because they just didn't sell. If I saw a relatively new rifle on the gunshop used gun shelves, it was likely a .25-06.
 
rizbunk77 asked about the Speer 120 grain boattail. For whatever reason, the people on this forum very seldom refer to Speer bullets. I have always liked Speer bullets and I have used dozens of boxes of them. Their 120 grain 25 caliber boattail is almost identical to the Sierra 117 grain GameKing. I finally settled on the Sierra because of their excellent quality control. But Speer has a secret weapon that for hunting is better than either of the boattail bullets and that is their flat based 120 grain HotCor. I have been taking deer and other animals with this bullet for years and the result of each shot is very predictable. When a buck is hit in the shoulder the bullet will invariably end up under the skin on the far side of the deer. The lead in the HotCor is somewhat harder than the lead in the boattail and it will stay together and retain about 60 percent of it's weight. I still use both the Sierra and Speer boatails for target shooting but for hunting I would choose the HotCor. If I had to make the choice to keep only one of these bullets I would probably select the Speer HotCor. I have tested the HotCor minute-of-angle out to 500 yards and when I load this bullet with 56 grains of Reloader 25 it is a powerful hunting round at near 3000 fps.
 
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rizbunk77 said:
After a 15 year hiatus I bought another 25-06. I am looking at loads and optics right now.

For you 25-06 shooters if you have any advice to share, please do!

How would you set this up best for 250-300yd. shots on big heavy whitetail bucks?
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Since you ask for advice on optics I'll share some experience. Attached photos show I've been there/done that, not just speculating. This .25/06, built on a Pre-64 M-70 action, is fitted with a 3.5-10X50 Leupold. the reason for the big lens is because I anticipated calling coyotes in low light conditions and figured the brighter image would be an advantage. Especially in mixed cover where a small, moving target can be hard to spot. This, or a similar scope, would well suit your needs for long shots at whitetail. DSC_0330.JPG DSC_0332.JPG
 
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IMG_2908.JPG You're right, I looked at Graf & Sons, Mexico, MO and they don't have the bullets. If Graf's doesn't have the bullets they may be in short supply. I would recommend that you start out with Sierra 117 grain GameKing or 117 grain ProHunter because they are easy to load and work with a big selection of powders. The boattails really slide into the case neck easy.

The bottom rifle in this picture is a quality 25-06 assembled by Paul Jaeger in Jenkintown, PA. This rifle is comparable to the rifle shown by Offhand but I like his Model 70 action much better. The top rifle is a Model 70 standard grade in 270 Winchester.
 
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Three very well done rifles. I have purchased one of the now discontinued 24" M77 stainless Hawkeyes.
 
Its hard to go wrong with that power range. I actually just grabbed another Nikon 4.5-14x40SF of ebay the other day, brings me up to over 1/2 my stable wearing that basic power range.
 
When I received my first 25-06 I topped it with a 3-9 Redfield. When that one cratered (due to a fall) I put a 3-9x40(ish) Leupold on it. Replaced that one with a Leica in 2000 or so. That one was replaced by what is currently riding on it - a Minox ZA-5 3-15x44. I like this power range on many of my rifles. I have Minox on most but, also have some of the old Leica's on a few as well as one Swarovski and one Zeiss.
As for the Speer 120's, I reloaded those for years with a healthy dose of IMR4831. It was only after having to chase the lands that I ended up switching to the 110 Accubond.
With the Speers, I was getting between 3000-3100 fps and accuracy was around .75". With that bullet I took my longest shot at a whitetail - 576 yards - dropping the little doe in her tracks. I also used that load on my longest Mule Deer - 488 yards - the bullet traveling in the front right shoulder and exiting the left-hand ham. Stem-to-stern penetration. That deer walked about 20 yards and dropped.
When it was my only deer rifle, I used it to take two different elk with the 120 gr partition. Groups weren't that good - 1.75" but where we hunted, the average shot range was 100 yards or less so...
 
Geez, thought you guys were talking about putting scopes on those rifles? LOL

My .25-06 is a 700 Varmint Special from 1978 and mostly sees use hunting groundhogs and varmints. It's topped with a Leupold 24X M8. When it comes to hunting deer or larger animals I replace the 24X with a 3x9 Leupold.

Had to replace the barrel a few years ago and chose a Krieger, best move I made with this rifle.

Most of my shooting is with Nosler 85 gr BT because of hunting smaller game. For the larger animals I prefer 117 gr Sierra GK or 115 gr Nosler BT.
 
Mr. Joed's mention of his M-700 Varmint Special in .25/06 reminded me that I had one tucked away somewhere so I dug it out for attached photos. According to Remington experts a .25/06 VS is a rara avis because it was the only long action 700 VS. With the laminated stock fitted by Fajen it shoots as good as it looks, and as Mr. Joed says, it takes serious glass to make a .25/06 sing. The Zeiss 6.5-20X50 on this one is about right... DSC_0335.JPG DSC_0337.JPG
 
Offfhand said:
Mr. Joed's mention of his M-700 Varmint Special in .25/06 reminded me that I had one tucked away somewhere so I dug it out for attached photos. According to Remington experts a .25/06 VS is a rara avis because it was the only long action 700 VS. With the laminated stock fitted by Fajen it shoots as good as it looks, and as Mr. Joed says, it takes serious glass to make a .25/06 sing. The Zeiss 6.5-20X50 on this one is about right...
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Beautiful rifle Offhand, as well as the other rifles I've seen here. Correct, the .25-06 was the only long action VS that Remington offered. I agonized for 3 days over what cartridge to order that 700 in before choosing the .25, it was my first centerfire rifle.

I still recall when I had Kelbly's replace the barrel a few years ago. I chose a Krieger barrel but the smith asked me what cartridge I wanted because there were now a lot of other choices. Wasn't a hard choice at all for me, .25-06.

This is the only picture I have of the rifle (on left), the other is a 700 Classic in .300 H&H Mag.

nSN0FWWh.jpg
 
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JimKirk said:
The newer IMR 8133 May would be interesting to try also ...
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Yeah it could be a good one. I wanna try it in my 7mm and possibly 6.5-284. it looks slower than Retumbo so it maybe a little slow for the .25-06.
Quickloads has retumbo running about 110% but delivering 3300fps with a 120 sgk. Ive found the compression numbers generated by quickloads a little high regularly, but ive got no experience with the .25-06. im also using the generic ql setting which can be way off sometimes.
 
LoonWulf said:
Quickloads has retumbo running about 110% but delivering 3300fps with a 120 sgk. Ive found the compression numbers generated by quickloads a little high regularly, but ive got no experience with the .25-06. im also using the generic ql setting which can be way off sometimes.
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I'd have a hard time believing 3300 fps with that bullet. Most I've seen in that weight range manage about 3100 fps. But with newer powders who knows.
 
joed said:
I'd have a hard time believing 3300 fps with that bullet. Most I've seen in that weight range manage about 3100 fps. But with newer powders who knows.
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With better inputs it might change, and again compression high to get there.
Lacking any experience with the .25-06 i cant judge the accuracy. Ive found QL to be pretty good at guessing velocity, but the inputs have to be the same as whats actually being used.
 
I have heard of Mod. 700 Varmint Specials in .25-06 but never saw one until now. They must be rare indeed. Ruger built some Mod. 77 Target Rifles that were available in .25-06 (among other things) years ago but I'm not sure of the exact production dates. Although I did win one in a gun raffle in 1997 that was in .25-06 and haven't seen another one in .25-06 but have seen a few in 22-250 and at least one in 220 Swift. The .25-06 was one of those cartridges that I always admired and a couple friends had .25-06's back in the '70's & 80's and they always impressed me. It's not a 257 Weatherby ( I reload that for a buddy and have shot his enough to know) but it's still a darn good all around choice. Mine always liked the heavier 115-120 gr. bullets and I eventually wound up using one load exclusively for that gun with a 117 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter and a near book max load of RL-22 that clocks an average of 3128 fps over the chronograph. It's a great open country deer & antelope round for the distances most of them are taken at, ( not like some of the real long range hunting that's in vogue with some folks now). One of my most cherished hunting memories from back in the day is using that .25-06 with that load from prone across 325 yards of rolling Wyoming plains and taking my best pronghorn antelope with one shot and he was down in his tracks, ( I spined him). Haven't fired the gun in a few years but it's accurate enough that It's gonna be going after woodchucks this summer now that retirement gives me more time, so I've got to start loading up for it. KM77VTMKII.jpg IMG_1735.JPG DCP00840.JPG
 
Not that one but I have had very good accuracy and instant kills with the Speer 100 grain I have a encore 25-06 by no means what one would say is a target rifle like a bolt action but I have one that is a 1/2 inch shooter at 100yards
 
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