The 30-30 & lead bullets

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ArchAngelCD

ArchAngelCD

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I bought some 165gr 30-30 lead bullets and loaded some up. I got fairly good results from H4895 and I gave Trail Boss a try. I couldn't find accuracy with Trail Boss. I'm shooting a Glenfield Model 30 which has Ballard rifling. The bullets is from Missouri Bullets and is a plain base 18 BHN bullet.

PLEASE, only those who have shot lead bullets in the 30-30 reply, no guessing!

The question is, which powder have you found to be generally most accurate with lead bullets in the 30-30. I was looking at the current and 1980 version of the Lyman cast bullet handbook and the options run from Unique and 2400 all the way up to H335 and W748 with another dozen powders between them. I'm not asking about charge weights only powder choice. I'll work up the loads for my rifle.

The powders I have on hand I think might work well are:
Universal
H110/W296
Lil'Gun
IMR4198
IMR3031
AA5744
I already tried H4895
Maybe LVR but I think it might be too slow.

I have additional rifle and handgun powders too so you don't have to stick with the powders I listed but hardly any 2400 and no Unique but Universal could sub.

Again, first hand knowledge please. Powder is too precious to waste on a guess.
Thank you...
 
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I used gas checked 150 gr with 11gr Unique for around 1700fps in my win 94 great turky load. I havent tried the 160s yet. I used to use that same bullet in a 700 Rem in 308, it was tack driving accurate to 100yds.
 
I tried the MBC 135 gr RNFP over 10.0 grains of Unique. It was all I could do to hit a paper plate at 50 yards.
 
ArchAngelCD,

I have a box of those sitting in the closet right now. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to play with them yet.

I am however interested in what you figure out while doing your work up's, so will be paying attention to what you post up as results.

My planned use is for a Contender chambered in 30-30 AI with a 14" bull barrel. With 3031 and Rem 150gr RN CL's it is sub 1" at 100yds so I am hopeful the cast will work as well, especially since I have a couple of molds as well.

Keep some good notes, and I will check back with you later on. Like you mention, will just interested in powders you find work out the best.

Thanks
 
28 grs of 3031 has worked quite well for me.
18 grs of 5744 manages hits on silloutte rams at 250 yds.
7 grs of unique makes a fun plinker load.
If you have some 2400 try 15 grs.
Sometimes the Hogdons youth load formula with 4895 can make a great cast bullet load.
Make sure that barrel is clean, and there's no lead or copper build up in there. Be mindful to flare the case mouth so you don't shave the bullet base during seating, and there's probably been more good cast bullet loads wrecked by to much crimp than have ever been saved by using a lot of crimp.
 
I just bought some of the Falcon 165 cast, So I would be interested also.
I have unique, 2400, and 748. Wondering how hard you can push these before leading becomes a prob. Shooting from a marlin 336 , and Win model 94

JIM
 
I've used 170grn hand cast with a gas check in front of 10.0grns of Unique in my Marlin Cowboy 30-30 with ballard rifling. It would get me moa at 100 yards from a bench. These were cast from a Lyman mold, using #2 lead.
 
Honestly, I've never been able to get good accuracy out of my M94 with cast bullets. They've all been .309, 16-18 BHN.

Unique and H4895 both gave me ho-hum accuracy and Trailboss was just terrible beyond about 35 yards. But I have the original sights (terrible) on it and some issues with extra holes in the barrel of the rifle. (link in case anybody just has to know http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-679730.html)

I'm taking a friend out shooting on Sunday and I just finished loading 50 rounds (cast, 135g, 16 BHN over 10g of Unique). I do have a bit of H4895 left so maybe I'll load some of those too and report back next week.

I've never tried other powders with cast so I can't help you with that.
 
Honestly, I've never been able to get good accuracy out of my M94 with cast bullets. They've all been .309, 16-18 BHN.
Click to expand...

Exactly my point...

I have a Marlin 1893 that would not shoot .309" for spit...

I miced a slug I forced through the barrel, and determined I had .3085 grooves...I now load .310"-.311" cast, and get good accuracy for a gun over 100 years old...

I've actually started playing with teflon tape on some .309" that I had left over...If it ever comes together, I iwll make a post about it...
 
Honestly my most accurate ?

Toss up between H4895 and Unique. Yep, Unique, lol.

But, I was using .311 bullets in a marlin microgrove, your results may vary.

All the info is available in an easy search, but if you want me to link it up together for you in a PM, I will.


I ended up shooting that rifle so much, I shot the bore out, lol, and sold it for parts.

Miss that guy...... Have fun !
 
I'm not an expert at 30/30, but I tried 150grn plain base and 170grn gas checks in my marlin 336 micro groove. The 150's shot all over the place and the 170's shot well. I'm using accurate 2520. Don't be afraid to play with your charges some. 21.5grns prints a 3-4" 5 shot group at 100 yds. 22.6 grains prints a 1" group. I couldn't believe it when I cloverleafed my first 3 test rounds with that load. I was all like what?!? I just outshot my snazzy bolt action custom built 20x scoped rifle with a beater 30/30 using lead bullets and a 7x scope?!?! What makes me really sad is that I am almost out of 2520 and due to the great powder shortage I can't find any more.

My bullets are straight wheel weights water quenched.
 
I have had my best luck with 5744, hands down. Not position sensitive, and I highly recommend you try it.

You weren't looking for charge weights, but when you ask for a guy's favorite powder in a given caliber like the 30-30....... I shoot 20grs. of 5744 with the 31141 sized .311.
No reason for me to try anything else.

JT
 
I shot 3 cast lead loads in a Marlin 336 microgroove today.

First thing: bullet fit. More critical with microgroove than Ballard rifling but still critical. Slug your bore. About .003" over groove diameter is a good fit.

Second: velocity and bullet construction. "Hard cast" is a marketing ploy. These 25+ BHN bullets don't mark and deform in transit. (Sorry: I reread your post and you clearly stated #2 alloy. Still harder than I like in the 30-30) In my experience really hard lead is harder to dial in than softer alloy (to a point). I think you can push to 2000, maybe even 2200 fps (gas checked) with Ballard rifling, 1800 fps is the tops for microgroove, in my experience.

Today I shot 165 RNFP gas checked at 20grs IMR 4198, 21grs and 22 grs. 21 grs was the sweet spot for me and I got several five shot groups of 2.5" or less, 100 yards open sights. That's as good as I can shoot.

I shot some 130 RN Plain base paper patched to .315". They were tough to chamber. Over 23 grs 3031. Some sub 2.5" groups and some fliers. Need to size them down to patched at .313" and try again.

Some gas checked 160 gr RNFP, patched to .312 over ( can't remember charge) IMR 4064. This just didn't work out. A number of issues.

Powder is almost the last issue. 4198 is on your list. That's the good stuff with raw lead. Get the right fit and work up some loads in the 20 grs area and find the right formula. Then stick with it and enjoy ;-)
 
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Without a gas check your speed will be limited. Every gun and bullet combo is different, but expect barrel leading to happen somewhere between 1400 and 1700 fps. Work your way up and bring a bore light with you to the range to keep an eye out for lead in the barrel. Powders like 3031 and slower don't usually burn well with loads that are reduced as slow as you'll need. I've had my best results with imr4198 and Reloader 7, but I'm using gas checked bullets. AA5744 has a good reputation with cast bullets, their manual lists 12.6 grains for 1297 fps. I'd start there and work up, max load is listed at 22.0 grains and 2034 fps and you'll never go that fast without a gas check. Here's a link to their load data. http://pdf.textfiles.com/manuals/FIREARMS/2003guide.pdf
 
Powder is the last/least consideration.

Number one is size. What diameter are your bullets? What is the size of YOUR bore? These vary from gun to gun in the same brand/model

Are your bullets gas checked? Are they plain base?

18 BHN is too hard. You need to get someone to cast up bullets at 11-12 BHN, that is roughly the hardness of wheelweights.

What is your lube?

Get back to us with an answer to each question and we will tell you what is causing your problems. I guarantee that it is not powder.
 
ArchAngelCd If you had bothered to do a search you would have come up with a previous thread......You load 30-30 I load 32 Winchester. I cast 8mm bullets and size and gas check them accordingly. I have used 3031,4064 H414 and even 4831 with equal results.
 
My goodness, almost everything but what I asked for! Why is it every time I start a thread I can't get what I ask for?

Why is everyone assuming the bullets are too narrow and don't fit correctly?
I am not getting any leading and I can push those bullets fairly fast too.
I didn't ask for charge weights but I'm getting them.
I'm using a plain base bullet yet gas checked bullets are being talked about.
My barrel has Ballard rifling but Microgroove barrels are being discussed.
I didn't ask about top end velocities, I asked about accuracy.

I'm being told powder is the least of my concerns but how can you know that? I'm asking about powder so it is my concern.

I swear it's like talking to children when I ask a simple question on this forum. I tried to prevent all the "every rifle is different" answers, I did not ask about charges. I know the bullet has to fit the barrel correctly yet I still get the "you have to slug your barrel" talk. I did not complain about leading yet I'm told hoe to check for leading. THERE IS NO LEADING!!!

MODS, please close this thread before I say something that will get me banned! I'm so tired of people who talk just to hear themselves talk. I try to be so helpful to everyone but every time I ask for help I get aggravated worse than talking to children!
 
MODS, please close this thread before I say something that will get me banned! I'm so tired of people who talk just to hear themselves talk. I try to be so helpful to everyone but every time I ask for help I get aggravated worse than talking to children!
Click to expand...

If the responses in this thread were not as helpful as you could ask for, perhaps asking for help on a public forum is not for you.

If you are so easily frustrated by folks offering their own experiences and helpful hints they've discovered while walking the same path you're treading, maybe you'd be better off not coming here and asking questions.

You ever deal with real people in real life? Tried that before? You know how real people tend to have experiences and opinions and how they like to share them when asked questions? Yeah, this here is a lot like that. If that doesn't suit you, best you muddle along on your own rather than risk too much insurmountable frustration.

:scrutiny:
 
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