The 30" Pattern Myth....

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Dave McCracken

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All gun writers are guilty of this, Yr Humble Scrivener included. We declaim in stentorian tones things like....

"A Full choke should deliver 70% of the shot charge into a 30" circle at 40 yards".

That statement is true, BTW. But, it gets folks who haven't done a lot of patterning thinking that if the choke says full on it, they automatically have 30" of spread to work with at 40 yards.

Such is rarely the case.

Patterning is onerous drudgery. Most folks do little,and only my near obsession with wringing out my equipment keeps me at it. A dozen or two patterns will provide food for thought, not to mention frustration if you believe in that 30" pattern spread and just do not see it.

Let's hypothetically set up a pattern sheet and let fly. Call it 15 yards, IC choke and an oz of 8s. Note the tight cluster in the center of the pattern. That's the core, the round, undeformed pellets that fly farthest and hit the hardest. Note the other holes here and there, well away from the POA, the core, and too undense to ensure a solid stop to prey or shattering to a clay target. These are lost pellets.

Roster and others tell us that 3 pellets of suitable size in every two square inches of target surface is needed. I'll agree, with reservations.

Now, move back to the 25 yard line and fire at a new sheet. Note the core pellets are a little less dense, and appear to more completely fill up that 30" circle. But, are the edges of the pattern dense enough to make that 3 pellet/2 sq.in. across all 30 inches?

Probably not. One great aid here is a 4X4' sheet of graph paper ruled off in 1 inch blocks.Using a hilighter, one can mark where that density is lacking, and thus see the "Holes" in the pattern.

Shot clouds, the event that pattern sheets are a two dimensional record of, are always denser in the center. Using the core and not peripheral pellets means solid hits, clean and humane kills, and good scores.

Sure, we all pick up the occasional bird or target with a slightly off shot that has a few fringe pellets in the right spot. Luck's not dependable, though.

If we want to consistently score well, we have to consistently put the core into the center of the target, or as I keep boring you with, the leading molecule.

So how much spread can we depend on? Like so many things in Shotgunland, it varies.

If the choke is more or less correct, there's certainly 24 inches, possibly 26 inches and maybe even 28", but that's pushing it a mite. Note that 24" is about 6 clays wide, so there's wiggle room. You may see an occasional 30" pattern with enough density to guarantee breakage, but not consistently.

Here's some advice. If you're smoking a particular presentation, changing to the next open choke will probably give you a bit more spread without creating holes in the pattern. Ideally, I like to see the target erased, not smoked. Smoking them is good for your morale and bad for your competition, but it can be counter productive on the scoreboard.

Questions, comments, donations?....
 
Sir...

<raises hand> <waving frantically raised hand>

What is a pattern board?
It is true all the pellets do not arrive at the same time...?
What is shot stringing? Does this affect pattern density and performance?
It there a difference in stationary and moving targets ?
I heard one fella say a 12 bore and a .410 throw the same on that pattern board thingy? Is this guys nuts?
Same guy said the markings on bbls and chokes is only a reference, he said you have to pattern your gun with your ammo at the range the task is expected to be used. Is this guy really nuts - for sure?
Is there a book where I can see pictures and stuff of this?

I didn't think one could miss with all them pellets. Gee mister there sure is lot more than just buying a shotgun and a box of shells from the way you talk in original post.

;)
 
Back of the class?
I have been moved to the seat outside the Principal's office...then moved out to the parking lot...then told to stand to stand in traffic and count the red cars...little ole' innocent me....<angelic smile here> ...I didn't do nuttin'. ;)
 
Steve - Don't forget...

Is it true that some guy used a station-wagon and a trailer with big pieces of paper to pattern his shotguns?

Why would his wife let him do that?

How did he get her to drive?
 
Re: The wife.

Trapper,
I have always wondered about that myself.

---

Is it true some fella *ahem* using a sheet of drywall, roll of butcher paper, 2x4, rope and pulley , ...etc. conducted his own test on "swinging targets"?
Did folks think he was nuts? Do they still he is nuts? Was he trying to duplicate another fella's works? Did he learn something? ;)
 
The guy with the wagon was Bobby Brister. I believe that it was mentioned in his book, Shotgunning, The Art and Science.

There was an interesting thread on Shotgunworld about the shot strings are they real.

Russell in Trapshooting Secrets does not believe in the 30" pattern, but rather a 25" pattern with the "hot core". He also suggests shooting trap with a Full choke regardless of games, 16's or 'caps. (I buy into this. YMMV)

paul
 
sm, you're grounded for life, again. Go to your room....

TTBOMK, Brister is still married.

A couple things....

Some recent research tends to the idea that from about 20 yards out, the pellets getting to the target first are the lowest layers in the shell. That's IF they're not deformed by setback pressures at launch. Another case for hard shot.

Shot strings are real. Our visualization of the event is a little off though. Actual shot clouds look kinda like badminton shuttlecocks the tail being deformed, unround pellets going slower than the round ones.Meanwhile, the front pellets catch lots of air resistance and slow down more than those sheltered behind them, so the front has pellets peeling off constantly.

Russell has the right to believe whatever he wants to. Me, I'd go for the choke under the one that smokes most targets like I said in the original post.
 
Dave......I'm new to this, but very interested. What did you mean by smoke a target vs. erase it...??....and how does either effect your competition or the scoreboard?

Thanks for this section of this site.....thoroughly enjoying it.

Regards,

Bryant.
 
I agree with Dave's original and follow up post.

I recall being taught as a brat about shotgunning ,using a water hose for a learning tool. The shot does not all arrive at the same time, there is "pattern" , pattern differs with the size of garden hose ( bore), and can be altered by the adjustable nozzle ( choke) and yes it is more "a matter of bore not choke"[ as Brister, Baker re-affirmed later]. The garden hose also is representative of the "effect of" moving spray of water , lead, follow thru ...etc.

Shuttlecock , as Dave said , is accurate of the cloud of shot. If one spends enough time shooting, and ever "sees" this cloud , which I , Dave and others have , that is what one sees. You have the correct lighting, angles and such, you get a feel as to what to see. I have puffed graphite in my reloads to aid folks in seeing this.

I remember as a kid , a mentor took just enough powder and used some bright yellow plastic "shot", to show me some things that later Brister, ACTUALLY did and researched. Actually primer only "can" do this, just the wad will get stuck and the pattern will be skewed more since the wad did not do its job as designed.

Brister's work re-affirmed what I was taught and experienced in my growing up and teachings. He was the first to actually do the moving targets.

He dispelled a lot of myths, provided proof, with his work. Stan Baker was another that did a lot to give us real world knowledge and not hypthesis.

This is why, and why I continue to say, I don't care what a bbl/choke is marked, I don't care what a box of shells has written on it, I don't care what a buddy says, thinks, nor a gun gun rag writer.

I use it as a reference, starting point and see for myself. I want to know what my gun and my load will do at what distance for what task. Be it pellets or slugs. I have taken duplicates of the same exact shotguns with the bbls/chokes marked the same, using the same box of ammo and rec'd different results. Even slugs.

Yes it true a .410 will throw the same "pattern" as a 12 bore - the density is different. [ matter of bore not choke again].

I think perhaps folks are spoiled with screw in chokes,so many load offerings we have today, so many choices in firearms, bbls/chokes... too many media sources at times. Maybe works against folks in learning - all the internet, and gun related books. I don't know if its complacency, being gullible, sensory overload or what.

Perhaps folks have or think they have too much disposable income. Too easy to "buy skill, targets" , or too easy to buy something else than it is to learn to shoot and test for themselves.

A Fellow may have only made $5k a YEAR and raised a family on that salary. He had one FIXED Choked shotgun To use for everything, HD, Hunting all kinds of critters. He didn't miss because shells cost money.

Yes one can take 5# of chilled shot, and leave it in a shot bad, run over it with a car tire, better is a heavy roller like they use for sod. Fire it out of a fixed full choked bbl and get a spread/pattern like cylinder bore.

I know , I did it, and used for my first shot on quail.

I counted pellets, drew the 30" circle did the math and all that jazz to learn. I use a pattern board FIRST to see POA/POI- I want to see GUN FIT for me using pellets and slugs.

Then with the time and experince I have doing this, I have a feel for what I'm seeing and my needs - like Dave said. I may use a 10", 12" or 15" pc of dowel rod or such to get a idea...I use a clay target and see if any holes exist. I may use a tennis ball, a lid from a jar to see if any holes exist to allow a quail, squirrel ...whatever "lethal" zone I need at what distance.

Squirrels for instance, heavy leaves, and distance, I used 15-20" as my "cirlce" and a Zippo Ligher [the squirrel] to see holes at the longest yardage I expected to shoot. When screw in chokes came out I did the same, and then went .5 more open in choke. [ As Dave suggested]

Zippo represented quail as well. Shoot a pattern board, run a Zippo over the pellet holes and see for yourself. One gets a "feel" knowing the shot does not all arrive at same time, as to how many pellets in a given - say Zippo sized target.

With the prevelence screw in chokes we don't see square shot...that was some great stuff for close in work, with a fixed choke. Ewwey...IC threw some big ol' patterns...:p
 
ArmyAviator

I'm not Dave, but his wife let me out of my room where I'm grounded :)

In clay games if a target "breaks its broke". Meaning if one only chips a small sliver, the bird is "dead".

Smoke - is when the target is hit with so many pellets - density - it "smokes" ,all you see is "dust"...no little pcs of orange falling to the ground.

Erase - is when you have the target break, you see the orange remains fall away. The density is still there, the overall pattern is more open ( a bigger shuttlecock). This gives the shooter more margin for error if the shooter is a bit off on hitting the target. A good solid hit,nonetheless.
 
Sm, for that excellent explanation, thanks. You're off cell restriction but on probation. Again...

AA, smoke indicates surplus or excessive density. The core is so packed with shot that the edge suffers and is closer than needed. Like I said, if your hits are mostly smoke, going to the more open choke next down will give you a few birds more.

OTOH, staying with the smoking choke will teach you to get on them tighter. I recommend this for intermediate shotgunners.

At trap, I can switch all the way from a Full tube of 40 POC down to an IC tube of 8.5 POC and get roughly the same scores. Hits get more chippy, but I still get the hits. This indicates I'm using the core of the cloud, not the edge for most of my hits.

A Mod tube of 18.5 POC is my choice most of the time, but if I'm getting a little sloppy I bump it up to get me back on target.
 
Dave, just give me time, I'll be in trouble again...soon. Gee your wife's cookies are great, I may have to get into trouble more often. Oh I drank up all the milk...you might want to pick up some on the way home :p

Dave shoots Trap. Some folks shoot Sporting Clays, Five Stand, Int'l Skeet or Int'l Trap, defensive shotgunning, 3 gun, steels, bird hunt, deer hunt, duck hunt... - all of this thread is applicable to each task....different tasks...[ I like Int'l Skeet as well].

In my case I shot a lot of Regulation Skeet...

... where a more open choke is preferred. Actually I shoot pretty much a Cylinder Bore. Skeet - being a different task than Trap - suggests a more open pattern. I pattern from 8 to 25 yds. The center stake [ where the bird flies over] is 21 yds from the shooting stations.

I tend to "get on birds" quick, if I have too tight a pattern at 8 - 15 yds, I can miss!! At this short distance its more akin to shooting a rifle - kinda. High 1, H2 Low 6 , L7, I have missed because from low gun, I break real soon out of the house. I have to literally "slow down" and let them get out a bit to let the pattern density do my work for me. I get cute, and we have fun... and walk in 2/3 from sta 8 toward the high house and break them. Low 8 I walk in halfway to the low house and break them. It is breaks- its broke. :)

If I have NOT enough pattern density at say 25 yds, the clay will go right through the holes of the shot-string / pattern density. I may be dead on the bird, I don't have enough pellets arriving in the density to break it.

This is the "Art and Science" part of Brister's Work.

Now I have said "matter of bore not choke" quite a bit in these posts. In Skeet, we shot all 4 gauges. Go check any scoreboard, the scores reflect this fact.

There is ONE exception, we have discussed many times, that is the 28 ga. There is a relation of payload [shot] to bore. It is "better than its supposed to be", because , though only 3/4 oz of shot, the shot string is very short. More pellets in that density arrive at the same time...so the 28 ga "hits hard", making it very effective out to certain yardages. Look at any Skeet scoreboard and this is reflected.

On the same scoreboard, look at the .410, it is the most challenging of the 4 gauges.

Take all 4 gauges, same bbl/choke markings, and equivalent target load, pop a pattern board and see the "pattern". You will be surprised that in diameter they are in fact the "same".

Respectively in decending order - 1 1/8 oz ( 12 ga), 7/8 ( 20) , 3/4 ( 28) and 1/2 ( .410). There is simply more shot in that "pattern" to be dense.

Now take a 7/8 oz load even a 1oz load from a 12 bore...this is where one gets educated. Less felt recoil than the 1 1/8. If one learns, this valuable tool - the pattern board - one can get very effective pattern density with less shot.

I'm not anal, or obssevive about this stuff, I just found it facinating. I wanted to be a better shotgunner, I was curious and I spent time learning. It is said shooting is 90% mental, 10% physical. So if one takes care of the physical stuff ( gun fit, shoes, eyes/ ears, the proper loads for task...etc) that frees up one to take care of the other 90%.

My mentors, then add Brister and Misseldine , not only taught how to hit, they expalined why I missed and how to correct.

That way "if I see it - its dead" is a confidence thing. All my focus is on the target and task, I don't have to "wonder" , "worry" or get "frazzled" if I miss a clay, a dove, a steel plate, a teddy...I took care of the physical stuff...I can focus on my mindset, concentration, and skills improvement.

That's is why that "old man" with one plain Jane shotgun will beat your butt. He knows it well, he has the physical part down pat. It is the man, not the gun.

What Dave is trying to do, and does provide for folks, is the heads up of experience. He has BTDT as have many others, ysr_racer , PJR, kudu, HSMITH, Trapper, Smoke, Correia, Denny, Al...so many folks in many disciplines.

This allows folks to save some time and money. Allow time and monies to be more quickly utilized [focus] as a reference point to more quickly find out what works for what task in your situation.

I may have the same firearm , bbl/choke markings and box of shells as any of the folks above. I have to pattern my gun to see for myself. I may need a different "choke" in my gun than any of the above. Simply because, not only will my gun pattern different than thiers with everything being the same...my skill level may be different. I may be slow in reflex, and shoot later, th etarget is further out for me. No harm or foul...just that fact that humans differ in expereince, training, reflex added to the "Art and Science".

It actually is clearer than mud - honest.

Dave, don't forget the milk...:p
 
The regulars here have centuries of accumulated shotgun experience. While we often disagree, a few common chords ring through the din.

One boils down to "Training and mindset beat the heck out of gadgets, gizmos and blingbling".

Another might be "The way to learn to shoot is by shooting". I favor, "Buy Ammo, Use Up, Repeat" or BA/UU/R.

I started this thread because I ran into some folks having trouble with the 30" concept. Hopefully, this will clear things up.....
 
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