The .45 ACP and Law Enforcement

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Timthinker

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While the .45 ACP cartridge has enjoyed great press as a "manstopper" round, it has failed to gain acceptance as a standard issue cartridge for most American law enforcement agencies. True, some SWAT teams may prefer this round, but that is not the point of this inquiry. So, what reasons account for its failure as a LEO round? I have some ideas on this topic, but I thought this would make an interesting thread.


Timthinker
 
A few LE departments that issue/authorize the .45ACP for patrol officers.

The San Bernardino County Sheriff Department (the largest county in the USA) issues the Glock Model 21.
The Long Beach Police Department isses the Para-Ordnance P-7.45LDA to their academy recruits.
The Los Angeles Police Department authorizes the usage of the S&W Model 4506 and Glock Model 21 for their patrol officers.

The .45ACP is not a failure as a LEO round.
 
The problem with the .45 ACP is that female cops and small-statured cops and many police recruits just can't handle the recoil of a .45 ACP. Plus they have little to no upper body strength which is required to do a quick rack/tap/bang malfunction clearance. And if you have a double feed, or a stovepipe, and you've got an 18 or 20 lb. recoil spring to overcome, you really need that arm strength.

So - being that the 9mm was considered to not be enough of a man stopper and the 45ACP being to much recoil and harder to handle for some individuals............

The 40S&W came on scene.

I personally wish I could carry my 1911 on duty! The GLOCK is a great platform and the 40S&W is a so so ballistic performer - but I would dump it in a heart beat for my 45ACP.

Just my 2cents
 
Note that most LEO's in situations where they can't count on a quick back-up tend to gravitate to the .45 ACP. There has been many a rural Sheriff's Deputy who has been glad to have old slabsides on his hip.
 
If it is a 1911, then it actually only needs a 14# spring. But it seems strange that someone who can not rack a .45 can rack a .40. What is wrong here?

b-
 
Maybe it has something to do with money. If 9 and 40 are acceptable "manstoppers" then why pay more money for 45 ammo? It should be noted that I have no information about this, just the first thing that popped into my mind.
 
I disagree with the notion that movement away from the .45 by law enforcement is a result of women or small officers' lack of tolerance of recoil. My first agency issued the G21 and the women handled the recoil fine. If anything gave them trouble it was their difficulty in obtaining and maintaining a good grip on the wide frame.

9mm became popular as a result of two things. One, it came into fashion to have a pistol loaded with more than a dozen rounds and, two, the military adopted it so you got the trickle down effect. Enter the .40. Irrespective of how it was developed, it gave the people in charge what they wanted, high capacity, larger caliber, and small frame size. I think most of you will agree that the .40 recoils harder than the .45 in many applications.

I now carry a G22, which fits most hands better than the 21 and I do think that an officer that goes into service with a good pistol and 46 rounds is well outfitted. Ideally though if Glock made a full sized single stack .45, that would be a better choice for me.
 
Funny you should mention that. I just saw an episode of ‘Cops’ with the Pierce County (WA) Sheriffs Dept and one of them was wearing a cocked and locked 1911.
 
2 reasons come to mind( off the top of my head)

1 capcity
2 ammo cost


The truth is money talks. Many gov contracts go to the lowest bider, that meets the specs. That few cents cheaper over 10s of thousands of rounds is a big deal.
 
I think the Tacoma WA City Police use the 1911 in .45 ACP. Isn't Tacoma
in PIerce County?

I live in Pullman WA - It's approx. 80 miles south of
Spokane in the SE part of the state. The Pullman City Police
issue a Glock model ( I don't know which one ) in .45 ACP.
I'll see if I can find out what the Whitman County SHeriffs use
as well as nearby ( 8 miles to the east ) Moscow ID use.

Randall
.
 
Lot's of PD's authorize .45 ACP. In fact, the only Jurisdictions near me I can think of that don't are the Colorado State Patrol (all M&P .40's) and Parker PD (Glock 22's). The rest of the police dept.'s/Sheriff's offices around here have a rather long list of acceptable handguns chambered in 9x19, .40 and .45. Last time I checked, Elbert County will also allow .357 Sig and 10mm, as well as .357 and .44 Revolvers.
 
As already noted, many people cannot shoot the .45acp and the cost of the ammo.

I carry a Sig P-220 for duty use. The dept next to mine just went to the P-220R (rail).
 
It became fashionable to get the most recent LEO caliber, and decisions like that are usually made by people who are not street cops, but get wined and dined by S&W and HK. Thus the .40- and the small-stature recruit issue is real and known. I personally know a female SO deputy who cannot pull back the slide on a HK .40 and carries a Sig P229 in 9mm.
 
When starting this thread, I thought of several reasons why other semi-auto cartridges have competed so favorably against the .45 ACP as a law enforcement round. At least three reasons seem significant to me. First, other rounds, such as the 9mm, offer greater magazine capacity than the old .45. Second, the advent of improved expanding bullet designs have increased the potency of rounds such as the 9mm. Finally, the recoil of the 9mm and .40 S&W are less than the .45 or 10mm Auto. This list is not comprehensive, but it does reflect my thoughts on the matter.


Timthinker
 
I do believe the Anchorage Alaska Police Department issues the Glock 21, which is .45 ACP.
 
My hometown PD carries the Glock 21, but its a small dept.

I think the hand strength issue may be legitimate, but there is more to it than that. However, I have numerous pistols in 9mm, .40 and .357 Sig, but my XD45 definiely has the strongest recoil spring of them all. It feels like it takes twice as much force to rack the slide on my XD45 compared to my other autoloaders.
 
power/vel/specs...

A number of complex issues have kept the .45acp from more duty use by sworn LEOs in the USA;

Many shooters do not like the strong recoil and more LE agencies hire small framed women/men who can't handle a large frame .45acp pistol. :uhoh:

The .357sig/.40S&W/9mmNATO duty pistols hold more rounds than many common LE .45acp pistols. Yes the Glock 21 packs lots of .45acp, :rolleyes:, but that is only 1 brand.

Power; Massad F Ayoob wrote about a documented LE shooting in Texas where a new DPS trooper fired his issued .357sig into a truck cab and ended an assault. The young trooper's senior partner had a SIG P-220 .45acp and the rounds did not punch through the metal, :uhoh:. .45acp rounds are big slow and do not go as deep as the .357sig/.357mag/.40S&W. That is another reason that .45s are not in use.

Finally, the .45acp is used mostly in the 1911a1 pistol. It's single action and requires a highly skilled person to carry/use it. Many SWAT/spec ops carry the big 1911a1s but they also train, train, train...;). A DA only or DA/SA .45acp is far safer for most LEOs.

Rusty S
 
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