The .45 Xtra Short

[Malamute]

It looks similar to the extra-short 45 round somebody was loading for cowboy action shooting, it gave more rounds in the magazine, and perhaps shortened the lever throw more than the standard short throw action jobs.

I don't recall details, a guy that used to post on the leverguns forum I believe, was discussing it. I think he was a gunsmith and had adapted some guns to use it.

 

[rugerdude29]

Looks really interesting!

I've loaded some similar length .44 Magnums loaded to light .44 Russian/Special levels. Talk about powder puff! I usually cut Magnums back to Special length and then back to Russian or American length as splits develop.

Yes, I really hate throwing out cases with split necks!

 

[BobWright]

the Black Spot asked:

.....but how in sam hill does one learn to write that neat?

About thirty years working on the drafting board. It deteriorated after we began drawing on a computer screen!


Bob Wright

 

[BobWright]

Jim K stated:

"The .45 Xtra Short will chamber and fire in the ACP cylinder..."

Not in my Ruger. The .45 Colt cylinder has a cutout for the cartridge rim, the .45 ACP cylinder does not, so there is not enough headspace for the .45 Xtra Short. Also, the .45 ACP cylinder ratchet will not clear the .45 Xtra Short rim so the .45 Xtra Short won't even fully seat in the chamber of the .45 ACP cylinder without removing some of the rim or altering the cylinder.

So I fail to see any practical purpose except to make use of .45 Colt cases with splits, and they would be as easily used in the regular .45 Colt cylinder.

I have two Ruger Blackhawk .45s, both with ACP cylinders and my cartridges work in both guns with the ACP cylinders in place. Why the difference, I can't explain.

Note that my guns were not sold as Convertibles but were .45 Colt revolvers. I had to return the guns to Ruger to be fitted with ACP cylinders, also fitting of the Super Blackhawk grip frames.

I bought the 7 1/2" Blackhawk in June 1987 and sent it immediately back to Ruger, getting it back in August. I bought the 4 5/8" gun in April of 2000; it may have been a convertible.

I did not use the ACP cylinder for the 4 5/8" gun until I started toying around with the .45 Xtra Short, and my first attempts with it the rounds would not chamber, neither would .45 ACP cartridges. Closer inspection showed my cylinder throats were .449" ~ .450". I had my 'smith open up the throats and everything is fine now.

I've encountered no problem with interference from the ratchet.


Bob Wright


P.S. As to practical use, there is none. But that is true of a lot of things I do.

 

[BobWright]

Will G asked:

This is a dumb question, but how would the ammo at the link posted below compare to the 45 Xtra Short? Could it be used for the same purpose?

http://www.jgsales.com/45hp-not-45ac....-p-92450.html

Thanks, Will

Likely would not work in my Ruger .45 ACP cylinder. Note it is 1 mm shorter than the .45 ACP cartridge, and it is rimless. It would seat too deep in the Ruger cylinder to function. As stated, it should be "USED IN DOUBLE ACTION REVOLVERS USING HALF MOON CLIPS."

The .45 HR requires clips to correctly headspace.

Bob Wright

P.S. I see a paradox in the advertisement: It is made for folks in countries where private ownership of firearms chambered for government cartridges is prohibited. Wouldn't the .45 ACP revolver then be on the prohibited list?

 

[Jim Watson]

The purpose of the original .45 Cowboy Special is that with a 160 grain bullet having a large lube groove, it holds the SASS Black Powder category minimum of 1.5ccs of black powder.

No problem in a revolver and you can get lifters for Henry and Winchester rifles with cartridge stops for the round, or modify a Marlin lifter for it.

Designed to SASS BP minimums, not authorized for NCOWS that I could find.

 

[orionengnr]

Well, it does salvage split brass that otherwise would be scrapped. In time, the old .45 Colt brass does develope neck splits or cracks.

Well, that convinced me. I hate throwing away brass too.
I like your targets...reminds me of my 3x5 cards with orange dots. Waste not, want not.

 

[Will_G]

Bob,

Thank you for your response...I learned something! I have to say I AM curious as to just what revolvers could use that 45HP ammo. There must be some really interesting revolvers made elsewhere.

 

[Swing]

Neat-O.

 

[Jim K]

Bob, I have asked around and maybe we are both right. My convertible (sold as a convertible) is the old 3-screw model. The .45 ACP cylinder fits tight up against the frame (essentially zero gap behind the cylinder). There is no groove for a rim and room for one anywhere. Also the ratchet will not allow a rimmed case to seat. In other words, the .45 ACP cylinder will take ONLY .45 ACP, not any rimmed case.

But someone more up to date on Rugers told me that at some point, Ruger cut a rim space in those cylinders and modified the ratchet specifically so they could use the .45 Extra Short. He is certain that it was a factory mod, not custom work.

Jim

 

[BobWright]

Will G asketh:

Thank you for your response...I learned something! I have to say I AM curious as to just what revolvers could use that 45HP ammo. There must be some really interesting revolvers made elsewhere.

Presumably, all Colt and Smith & Wesson Model 1917 revolvers, plus modern S&W .45 ACP revolvers can take the .45 HP. The point being made was that moon/half moon/quarter moon clips were required to provide correct headspacing.

Bob Wright

 

[BobWright]

This is an open response to Jim K:

I checked the ratchet diameters of both of my .45 ACP cylinders, both are stock from Ruger. Neither ratchet is "relieved" for a cartridge rim. I chambered an empty case in the cylinder and noted a very slight gap between the case rim and the ratchet diameter. Trying feeler gauges, a .006" would not fit between the rim and ratchet, a .005" gauge will slide between.

I did not measure the diameter of the .45 Colt cylinder but figured it would be of the same diameter.

So will/won't situation exists according to vintage.

Bob Wright

 

[midland man]

so what length are you trimming these 45 colt brass to to make these 45 shorts??

 

[BobWright]

midlandman asked:

so what length are you trimming these 45 colt brass to to make these 45 shorts??

I trim them to .890", same as .45 ACP. Doesn't hurt to cut to .885" even, since case headspaces on the rim.

Bob Wright

 

[midland man]

thank you for that info bob! I was thinking you might of been trimming to 45acp length but thought be better to ask! so how do you like shooting these little 45 shorts? p.s. do you use 45acp dies with using 45 colt shellholder to load these 45 shorts?

 

[BobWright]

midland man:

thank you for that info bob! I was thinking you might of been trimming to 45acp length but thought be better to ask! so how do you like shooting these little 45 shorts? p.s. do you use 45acp dies with using 45 colt shellholder to load these 45 shorts?

Yes, that is the beauty of the round, no custom dies required, .45 ACP dies, .45 Colt shellholder.

Especially nice shooting when using the ACP cylinder, mild recoil, very accurate. Soon I plan on shooting a batch in both ACP and Colt cylinder to compare the difference in accuracy.

Real nicety is ejecting the short cases, sort of like ejecting .22 Shorts from a Single Six, case is completely punch out with no hanging on the case mouth.

Bob Wright

 

[Malamute]

case is completely punch out with no hanging on the case mouth.

Good point for many people.

Do you eject empties slowly in general? I eventually got in the habit of punching them clear of the gun, I deal with picking them after I'm done shooting.

 

[GarrettJ]

Not in my Ruger. The .45 Colt cylinder has a cutout for the cartridge rim, the .45 ACP cylinder does not, so there is not enough headspace for the .45 Xtra Short...

Now you've got me wondering. I've got a 2-screw "New Model" Blckhawk Convertible that I bought new in '95. I'm pretty sure the case heads are not recessed, meaning it should work with the Xtra Short cartridges.

Bob, do you find you need to turn the necks? When making some wildcats from rifle brass, the case gets too thick near the head and the case walls have to be turned to the right thickness.

ETA: the brass will work in my revolver. I cut a few down, but have not tried loading any yet.

You can see the .45 Xtra Short in the cylinder above an ACP case. Also for comparison you can see (top to bottom) .45 Colt, .44 Spl, .44 Russian, and .45 Xtra Short.

 

[BobWright]

I have been using old Winchester .45 Colt brass with no problem. Some have told me that Starline brass is much thicker and does require neck turning.

I have used both 250 gr. and 200 gr. cast RNFP from Missouri Bullet Company with no problems.

Bob Wright