The 642 club

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is .38 Enough

May want to "sticky" this on page one. Many who are initially considering and grappling with the issue of carrying a .38 snub and 642/442 will find these opinions and experiences useful.

This is a long thread from the Smith and Wesson Forum addressing the issue, is a .38+P enough for carry. To be exact the question posed is:

My question is, how many people here consider the .38 in a 2" to be sufficient or insufficient for self defense?
Enjoy.


http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/550103904/m/9831087011

Probably the best summation is by 38-44HD45:

Here's what I tell my CHL students: Odds are, you'll live a long life and never need to shoot anybody. Therefore, if you do have to use a gun in self-defense, the odds have already gone against you. If you just want to play the odds, why bother with carrying a gun at all? (And it is a bit of a bother.) If there is a fight, the fight will be what the fight will be, not what statistics ("odds") tell you it will be. Therefore, your carry gun can't be too big, too close at hand, too powerful or hold too many rounds if the balloon ever does go up. Any gun is better than no gun, but no one who ever used a gun in self-defense later wished he'd had a smaller, less powerful one, or that he'd carried fewer magazines or speedloaders.


Good Stuff.
 
Last edited:
TheRevolvers01.jpg

I'm a member.

EDIT for Nema...Clockwise from top left,

S&W M37 with Tyler-T
S&W M60 .38 spl
Colt Agent
Colt DSII Stainless 3"
S&W 642 (my carry gun)
S&W 617 (in the "center" of pix)
 
Last edited:
to rtfm

Thanks for the welcome. The PEII is only for BU and not used for anything else. It seems the tip is plenty strong but the only use it has seen is being pushed thru four thicknesss of belt leather as a test (it went right thru). I have several other SOG's for utility use.

AS ALWAYS

JT
 
jt1: Welcome! We are glad to have you. That's a nice configuration you have there. I see you carry 5 in a Bianchi just like me.

Make yourself at home,

fiVe
 
...1986...

<was an interesting year ... speaking for myself, of course ... >

JT, anyone who carries a 642
AND a SOG is welcome in any camp I'm in. :cool:

DA, nice page on CCW. Good discussion. Enjoying it.

Hunt, I think I know what most of those are
('specially that big one in the middle ;) ),
but could you name them for us, please,
clockwise from top left?
________

I looked at two new (to me) potential (for my tool kit) revolvers today:

* A Model 60 w/ 3" (It feels so good. Lemme hear you say, "YEAH"!)
* A J-frame air-weight - at 11.9 oz, the epitome of "air weight" :what: - .22 called Model 317.

Oh, my; this may change my plans ... :scrutiny:

:D
 
Not a x42, but I did add another J frame yesterday. Found this one sitting used on a dealer's shelf... Unfired and as-new in the orig. box. As you would expect, it was in excellent condition, save one tiny area of rust near the barrel, which brushed off. I've been wanting the new reissue Mod. 36, so I guess this is even better (cheaper and original). A good find for $315, I think.

_DSC2389.jpg
 
loplop-
Nice find. I'm always looking for a nice old S&W in my local shop. They always get shoved in the back of the case. All the newer stuff gets top billing - right in the front. It's like going on a treasure hunt.
Your collection seems to be growing at an alarming rate :eek: :cool: ( I'm just jealous :D )
 
LopLop what an awesome find. I travel frequently and whenever I go to a LGS all they have is case dogs and a bunch of autos. I guess diligence pays off and maybe I need to get out more at lunchtime.

I am just surprised someone at the GS didn't know someone who knew someone who had a profile out on S&W prelock frame sizes certain condition etc.

I need to go leave a few business cards around. :what: a beauty.
 
Yeah, I'm not typically a lucky guy, I always hear "if you would have stopped in last week..."

The guy I bought the P228 from said I should come in 2x a week at least. He said really great SIGs come through with some regularity. I did get lucky on this one, when I saw it in the case I thought "OK" even though I wasn't really looking for a 36 :D

Yeah, it won't grow much longer 1BLINDREF. I have been through a shakeup period. I do this occasionally, just not usually to this level. When I moved to SIGs as carry pistols from 1911's, I cleared out all but one 1911 I owned. So I had room in the safe, why not fill it?? :D

Additionally, and germane to this thread, a few things have happened in my CCW life. 1) I made a conscious decision to carry all the time, instead of "sometimes" and 2) Ohio law changes made Pocket Carry really feasible as of yesterday. This is what led me to the 442, which also made me rethink my decision to carry a bulky 45 auto all the time. I decided I was comfortable with the 442, and also comfortable with some smaller pistols in 9mm. I have been adding pistols lately to try out new stuff. I'm sure some will move on, if I don't take to them. The Kahr PM9 is the latest trial acquisition.

I always seem to have some "never gonna sell" and "would trade for something else if the weather blew that way" guns in the safe. I shake up the latter on occasion as my choices/demands dictate. I'm sure others are the same. Right?? :eek:

One note for the peanut gallery, and germane to the x42 thread: the exposed hammer on that "new to me" 36 makes drawing from a pocket more of a tricky proposition. I really do appreciate the "hammerless" x42 design all the more.
 
Loplop how is the PM9 breaking in? I bought the 642 as an interim carry to the PM9 until it was totally debugged. We can go somewhere else to share this information if it is long and drawn out. Hopefully you will have smooth sailing. I have occassionally run into some "moderate chop" with the PM9. But it only has 350 rounds through it. 6 FTF out of the 350 and a couple of not going to full battery, having to nudge the slide forward. It likes cleanliness, lubrication, ball ammo or very round JHP like COR BON. It has never failed to run the first two magazines back to back flawlessly. I have documented every mag and every round.

P2280046.jpg
 
DAdams: Darn if I'm not jealous of your black slide! The only black slide model I could find locally was tagged at $799. A bit steep.

Thanks for asking about my PM9. I put 150 round through the PM9 this evening and I can report almost all was smooth sailing. It ate 50 rounds of Winchester 115gr JHP, 50 rounds of WWB, and 50 rounds of reloads (in that order). Somewhere in the box of reloads, around round 30 or so, I had one FRTB. Just a slight tap on the back of the slide and it fed in. The reloads were given to me by the gun shop, and were really dirty... So I'm not terribly surprised. It ate the rest of the 50 bag, and then I subjected my SIG to the rest of the reloads.

I am not sure how many rounds were on it when I bought it, I would guess around 1000 or so based upon wear patterns. It seems well broken in, and functions fine with the JHP's I'll carry, as well as good factory ammo. I'm not sure if it was the reload that caused the FRTB, but I'm not terribly worried about it. I know Kahr says no reloads, so now that I've chewed 'em up (the SIG ate them fine, like it eats everything else!), I'll stick with factory ammo.

I did notice that the slide failed to lock back after last round fired about 40% of the time. I may be inadvertently tripping the release lever in recoil. I did feel the slide release bit a few times, and shockingly I also got a little slide bite. But I'm happy to say the trigger was really nice, I shot it well, and it was all really a non-issue. Just like all guns should be. I'll carry it. Thank you to the gun man above for sending me a Good One. :D

Try the Winchester 115gr "Personal Protection" you find in the white box at WalMart and other large stores. The Kahr seemed to like it. I like that ammo because at $14-15 for a box of 50, you can fire a lot of it in your carry guns. There's also some 147gr. sold in the same boxes, although I don't think I'll use that in the Kahr (I tend to like lighter bullets in shorter barrels). The 147 shoots really well out of my SIG.

Re: Model 36. It's not mine anymore! My wife claimed it hers. I knew she'd like this one, but I wasn't thinking she'd stake out her claim so fast!

I replaced the banana grips with some Hogue Monogrips. Yeah, they look a little silly and out of place on that pretty gun. But since it'll be her range gun (if she likes firing it), I figured I'd go for comfort and recoil mitigation. Darn if those things aren't SUPER COMFY. Here's to hoping I get to see that old girl fired for the first time this weekend! :evil:
 
bought one a couple of weeks ago, getting my CCW end of April.

Shoots like a champ, very accurate for a snub. Hand to learn how to hold it right to be accurate.
 
Too bad about the 36,,,,at least it stayed in the family. That's a great gun at an outstanding price. I'm going on an extended road trip throughout the southeast and into the midwest for a for a few weeks. I'm hitting every LGS and pawn shop at every opportunity scouring them for "nuggets".


I have intentionally stayed away from WWB. The first handgun I purchased was a BERSA T380. (A flawless performer with over 750 rounds through it) A fun shooter and quite snappy with the blowback design and +P 90gr. It prepared me for the PM9 and 642. :rolleyes: It is now my dedicated truck piece with the 9+1 capacity in case I rush out the door w/o the PM or the 642. If someone jacks the truck I'm only out $250. :banghead: instead of 4-600.


P1290029.jpg
Truck Mode

PC030032.jpg
Carry Mode

In any event I frequent the Bersa Talk Forum and low and behold are stated and recognized issues with WWB and squibs. This has been in the public domain for some time and ever since I have stuck with WalMart "Green Box" aka Remington UMC as the readily available inexpensive stuff for the range.

http://bersatalk.com/forums/thread/23822.aspx

http://alangraytraining.blogspot.com/2005/10/squib-loads.html

Draw your own conclusions.

I searched the S&W site and found no reference to squibs so maybe it was confined to .380.

If you Google "WWB squib" it's interesting to see what comes up. Very controversial. I am just glad it introduced me to the "squib" concept and the bad ju ju it can cause although when I dump 10 rounds in rapid fire it will be the OH Sh...response, too late. :cuss:

For some odd reason I don't mind SS wheelers but I just can't get behind two tone autos. Just a bit much bling for me. Note BERSA ;) I bought the PM9 new for a tad under $600. The same LGS sells the 442 and the 642 for the same $395 (and they always will come down a little). Usually the 442 is higher at other shops which is ridiculous. It's the same price from the distributor.
 
Last edited:
Bersa = Too big. :barf: Christ, if I wanted a .380 pocket gun, I'd get a P38T (which is half the size)...and hey, what is a bottom feeder doing on the 642 thread anyhoo?:cool:
 
Indoor Range

Well I just wanted to file a report of how I did on the range today. I went to an indoor range with the only goal to sight in my laser sights. Shot a total of 50 rounds doing minute adjustments every 5 rounds. My goal was the following:

1) Sight in at 10 feet first.
2) Test sights at 15 feet next.
3) Test sights at 23 feet (max distance on inside range) final

Shooter was a pure novice, me. Shot at a Weaver stance (supporting arm bent) utilizing only the laser as a sighting tool. Targets were homemade for easy sight adjustments except for the final 23 foot target. Load was Winchester 38 Special 130grain FMJ Target/Range load from Walmart (~ $24.00 per 100). Shots fired at 10 foot was 35. Shots fired at 15 foot was 10. Shots fired at 23 foot was 5.

Impression of the gun. Shooting this gun the second time, I did notice it had a bit more kick than I remembered my first time out. I assume that this has a lot to do with the fact that I was not all hyped up with the fact that I had just bought it. Now that I have shot it once, I am trying to adjust to the nuances of the gun. The reason I only shot 50 rounds through the gun was due to the fact that my hand actually started to feel like it was bruising. I deduced that if I kept on shooting once I got sore, I would just start bad habits and do more harm than good. Aesthetically the gun shot great with smoke flying and finishing as a totally filthy firearm all covered with powder.

How did I do? After the first 35 shots, I had the sights close to center and just a tad to the left. Since I was getting sore, I decided to move the target out further and shoot again. Same location and same groupings after 10 shots at 15 feet. For my final round, I moved the target as far as it could go in the indoor range and shot my last five shots. Here is a scan of the target:

Target%20642%2015%20March%20%202007.jpg


I had a blast today and am truly amazed how accurate a snub nose can be. I cannot wait for my next adventure to the range to fix that left pull. I did not want to do it today since I was scared that it may have been caused by my unfamiliarity with the gun or just being tired.

I truly LOVE my 642-2 with Laser sights now! :)

The results
 
Last edited:
Another milestone post!!

...and now we are 2,000 posts strong! There is no way I can take any credit for this. I'm just a simple guy who bought a really neat revolver and wanted to post about it in THR Revolver forum. Now what do we have?...

An iron-clad reference on the 642 from first-hand, knowledgable sources. There are some great posts here full of information--everything from grips to holsters to ammo, etc.!

A growing family.
I'm always encouraged by the new members--many of whom honor us with their very first THR post. It shows the popularity of the 642 and The 642 Club.

A trend-setting thread. More club threads are springing up--so far I count 12 besides ours. I joined the 336 Club (founded by Nem) over in Rifle Country. Nem, it's a great thread, and I wish it MUCH success.


Personally, this thread is such a blessing to me. It has vastly exceeded all I ever expected or imagined. There are good people here, and I appreciate you all. No one can question our authority on the 642. We have the experts who either know the answer or will work to find it. WE made this happen. WE are making this happen.

Our 1st 1000 posts came in 17 months and 15 days. The 2nd 1000 posts happened in 5 Months and 16 days. Our next 1000? Only time will tell.......

At this point, all I know to say is "Onward and Upward!" I see us getting bigger and better, and I would like to express a sincere, heartfelt thanks to all who make this thread be what it is.

Peace, Blessings, and Safe Shootin',
fiVe
 
Congrats to us all for a fine thread full of information, fun and community.
In 2000 posts, I don't remember a single argument, and no bad feelings.

I've learned so much here.

And, as fiVe said above, the "club" phenomenon is growing. People like the idea of a place in cyberspace where they can go to exchange information about their favorite gun, or genre, where everyone knows your name.

Here's to the next 1000. And at that rate of acceleration, we'll be there in less than a month.
(But wait, that means reading a LOT more ... :uhoh: )

:D

Nem
 
Last edited:
Five,

As far as the fine shooting, it is amazing the difference laser grips make for pure accuracy. I am tickled pink with the grouping and placement of the shots from this revolver. I know the criticism of having a laser on your pistol is that the Bad Guy can locate you. But in reality when that laser goes off and pinpoints the Bad Guy, I think he will have wished that he had not located me.

The second thing I have found is that the difference in placement of the shots at 10 feet, 15 feet and 23 feet is negligible for this weapon with the laser grips. There is no need at these distances to worry about making sure the laser is parallel with the barrel or any other worries. Personally I would recommend zero'ng in that laser at 7 yards and feeling confident that you now have a great mechanism for placing shots to aid you with stopping power.

Now I am not worried about giving up my large 9mm for this 38special. With the ability to produce surgical accuracy with the laser, this gun will more than compensate for the lack of continuous shots.

BTW... Robert Mika stated my holster will be in the mail in 10 days. Now I need to look at speed loaders, and I will be all set.

:D
 
Holydoc, nice shootin'. Glad you like your snubbie!

You mentioned you buy WWB 100 packs at WalMart... For $13.00? Are you sure there weren't 50 packs for 13? That's what I get at my local WalMart. I have not seen 38spl for 9mm prices in a LONG time.

DAdams: WWB. I have shot many thousands of rounds of WWB, mostly in 45 Auto but since i bought my P239 I've also been shooting 9mm. I have not yet experienced a Squib load... Hope I never do. One thing I noticed is that all the posts I found on page 1 of google were about WWB 380 Auto. Perhaps a bad run went out.

Also, on the first page of google hits, there was a post referencing a Squib load in Remington UMC. IMO, no manufacturer is immune to the Squib. Recognizing one is a basic part of gun safety, and I hope I stop and think if (when?) I have one! It does sound like staying away from WWB 380 Auto for a bit might be a good idea. I'm sure Winchester will get it figured out. Try the Personal Protection JHP's in 9mm some time, you might like them.

I've heard great things about the Bersas. Especially the little PPK-style gun. I think I have my heart set on a SIG P232 in that style... Someday. I don't have any 380 Autos yet and I'm not sure I want to start stocking another caliber.

442: the dealers around here often charge more for the 442, also. I don't get that.

I'll probably be shooting the 442 this weekend, my wife will probably want to shoot my.... er, HER Mod 36. :banghead:
 
My Bad!

Loplop,

Eek! My bad! You are absolutely right. I had quoted how much it cost me normally to purchase my 9mm loads from Walmart. Now you really know how excited I was. Yes, I believe the 100 load 38sp ran around $23 TO $24 per 100. I do apologize to everyone. I will correct it in my original post.

:(
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

S
  • Locked
Considering A S&W 642 38+P, Is It Enought Omph?
Replies
21
Views
3K
Shadan7
S
C
  • Locked
The Steel Snub Club
2 3 4 5
Replies
107
Views
9K
XavierBreath
XavierBreath
D
  • Locked
Reload copy of Speer Gold Dot 135gr SB .38 + p
Replies
5
Views
2K
ArchAngelCD
ArchAngelCD
K
  • Locked
Crimson Trace Mistake?--Put it on my 642
Replies
19
Views
1K
Grump
Grump
Spiff_P239
  • Locked
New M&P 340 (.357 J-frame) on its way
Replies
5
Views
917
coach22
C
Back
Top