The American workhorse .40 S&W

[mongoslow]

I laugh every time I see a thread about the "dead" or "dying" .40 S&W also laugh at the hand wringing "it kicks to hard" crowd that then loads their G19 or Micro 9mm with the hottest +p+ ammo they can find and claim it performs just as good as the .40 or .45 (at those pressures and speeds they are getting .40 recoil). The .45 guys say it hits nearly as hard as the .45 yet most SD .40 hits harder than standard pressure 230 gr. 45., you have to go up to +p 230 gr. or drop down to the 200 and 185 gr. loads to get into the .40 S&W SD ammo performance envelope in the standard 165-180 gr. weights. Then we have the 10mm guys who call it "the short and weak" yet it will match most factory 10mm until you get into the premium JHPs.

I think it is hated because it does everything you need a pistol caliber to do by just changing ammo, and in factory ammo it is loaded from 292ft-lbs to 754 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. 13 different bullet weights in regular ammo, and 6 hyper-lite or fragnible rounds that I can find. these are offered by every ammo manufacture in one form or another.

I will admit it is a bit much in the sub-compact and micros but you can tailor your ammo to those little guys with good ammo that recoils no more than good 9mm SD ammo that most carry in those guns. so if you do have a "little" .40 get those hotter SD 165-180 gr. rounds out of it and load it something like these.
Federal 135gr. guard dog or low recoil 135gr. Federal hydra shok. or if you prefer a heavier bullet a Fioccho 155 XTP @ 950 FPS or 180gr. xtp @ 950FPS....it's not perfect but if a Micro 40 is all you have it gives you a more pleasant to shoot option without loosing money on a trade for a in high demand micro 9mm.

Now what about ammo selection, truthfully it is freaking huge.

100 gr AFR Extreme Shock.
115 gr. Glaser SS.
125 gr. Tac-xp.
130 gr. mag-Tech SCHP.
135 gr. 7 different offerings.
140 gr. 5 different offerings
150 gr. Nosler,EPR,Hi-Shok
155 gr 16 different offerings
160 gr. Mag-tech LSWC
165 gr. 15 different offerings
180 gr. 26 different offerings
200 gr. 4 offerings so far
and that is just SD ammo, doesn't include all the FMJ and practice rounds

I know a lot of you think you have no use for a .40 but do yourself a favor pick one up and chunk it in the safe, there are a butt load of police trade in pistols and used ones floating around cheap. then any time you see a box of ammo on sale and have the extra cash grab a box, sooner or later you will find a use for it, even if it is to sell it to me lol.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Thanks so much for the .40 S&W post. I own piles of handguns. I do not own a .40 S&W. Cabela's is selling the inexpensive little shoe-less orphan Hi Point Carbines for $268 bucks.
I bought one. I have not yet shot the .40 S&W rounds. Your post is both positive and informative. Thanks.

 

[Mike J]

I bought my first .40 back in either '99 or 2000. It was an old Ruger P94. I didn't really get seriously interested in handguns until around '07. I bought a XD-40 then. I like the round though I am aware some don't. In a sub-compact I have always tended to go to 9mm. I don't know whether I will buy another handgun this year or not but I keep finding myself looking at the Sig P229R CPO's. I'm not really a DA/SA fan but these pistols interest me. For now the old XD is my usual companion though.

 

[JFrame]

I laugh every time I see a thread about the "dead" or "dying" .40 S&W also laugh at the hand wringing "it kicks to hard" crowd that then loads their G19 or Micro 9mm with the hottest +p+ ammo they can find and claim it performs just as good as the .40 or .45 (at those pressures and speeds they are getting .40 recoil). The .45 guys say it hits nearly as hard as the .45 yet most SD .40 hits harder than standard pressure 230 gr. 45., you have to go up to +p 230 gr. or drop down to the 200 and 185 gr. loads to get into the .40 S&W SD ammo performance envelope in the standard 165-180 gr. weights. Then we have the 10mm guys who call it "the short and weak" yet it will match most factory 10mm until you get into the premium JHPs.

I think it is hated because it does everything you need a pistol caliber to do by just changing ammo, and in factory ammo it is loaded from 292ft-lbs to 754 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. 13 different bullet weights in regular ammo, and 6 hyper-lite or fragnible rounds that I can find. these are offered by every ammo manufacture in one form or another.

I will admit it is a bit much in the sub-compact and micros but you can tailor your ammo to those little guys with good ammo that recoils no more than good 9mm SD ammo that most carry in those guns. so if you do have a "little" .40 get those hotter SD 165-180 gr. rounds out of it and load it something like these.
Federal 135gr. guard dog or low recoil 135gr. Federal hydra shok. or if you prefer a heavier bullet a Fioccho 155 XTP @ 950 FPS or 180gr. xtp @ 950FPS....it's not perfect but if a Micro 40 is all you have it gives you a more pleasant to shoot option without loosing money on a trade for a in high demand micro 9mm.

Now what about ammo selection, truthfully it is freaking huge.

100 gr AFR Extreme Shock.
115 gr. Glaser SS.
125 gr. Tac-xp.
130 gr. mag-Tech SCHP.
135 gr. 7 different offerings.
140 gr. 5 different offerings
150 gr. Nosler,EPR,Hi-Shok
155 gr 16 different offerings
160 gr. Mag-tech LSWC
165 gr. 15 different offerings
180 gr. 26 different offerings
200 gr. 4 offerings so far
and that is just SD ammo, doesn't include all the FMJ and practice rounds

I know a lot of you think you have no use for a .40 but do yourself a favor pick one up and chunk it in the safe, there are a butt load of police trade in pistols and used ones floating around cheap. then any time you see a box of ammo on sale and have the extra cash grab a box, sooner or later you will find a use for it, even if it is to sell it to me lol.

LOL...

Thanks for that post!

As someone who loves his obsolete Glock 27 and SIG P229, it was heart-warming to read those words...

.

 

[TomJ]

What's lost in these arguments is that the gun has a considerable impact on the felt recoil. My first 40 was a XD 40 subcompact. To me, it had that overly snappy recoil so many people talk about. I wound up selling it. I tried the XDM 3.8 compact in 40, and it does a great job taming the recoil. The same can be said for my XDM 4.5, Glock 27 and Glock 23, all in 40. In regards to whether it's "dead or dying" or not, the marketplace will determine that.

 

[bannockburn]

I have had several .40 S&W chambered pistols over the years (a Springfield Armory P9, HK USP, and a Kahr CW40 come to mind), but have never stayed the course with any of them or with the .40 S&W round itself. Tried lots of different bullet weights and loads; the 155 grain ammo seemed to work the best overall in terms of performance and control yet I never got the sort of accuracy I was hoping for out of any of the different combinations of guns or ammo that I tried. Nowadays I'm pretty much set with 9mm. and .45 ACP but still might consider getting another .40 S&W gun one of these days, if only to use up some of the ammo I still have for it.

 

[Gordon]

I went for .40 when I heard the govt. was stocking up on it I figured I could all ways get all I need Actually it does smack your hand pretty good in pistols 25 .oz and under, like .45acp + P does in pistols under 26 .oz or so. However that hand whack = power on target and a .40 hole is bigger than a .36 hole after all. A have had no feed problems with it either. My first .40 was a Model 27 Glock, which was replaced by a Shield as it is easier to carry in pocket . Then I lucked into a CZ Compact all steel .40 at a low price, that with a couple mags has become my truck bug out pack gun. The latest .40 I got a couple years ago was a nifty Sig 239 LE model with the quick reset trigger. I love this gun and for belt carry concealed it is right on top of a favorites list today. I still like my 9s and even more so the .45s I've used 50+ years now. 40S&W powerful handguns and they are certainly a good choice for all around SD in my old opinion.

 

[mongoslow]

Meh, had a pocket 9mm already so I bought a Shield in 40. Terrible combination of size and caliber. Hornady Critical Defense, which is what I carry in 9mm, is incredibly unpleasant to shoot in this pistol. I have a G33 but I lucked into a factory G27 barrel for $100. For me, it's MUCH slower back on to target with 40 than with 357 SIG. Both high pressure / loud rounds, limited capacity (not an issue in CA), premium defensive ammo is priced identically. 357 SIG gives me no torque effect I can feel, unlike 180 gr 40 S&W. I have a 9mm conversion barrel to make a G26 out of it, I finally managed to make 9mm +P load that makes a G26 less than the most comfortable pistol to shoot. Meanwhile, I carry DT Bonded in my 45 ACP and 357 SIG, and I'd never even consider shooting their 40 S&W.

The 357 SIG is a niche, dead-end round - there, I said it. Literally EVERYTHING negative said about the 357 SIG can be likewise said about 40 S&W, except maybe the bit about 180 gr 357 MAGNUM loads can't be duplicated. Well, that too - 180 gr 40S&W is no where near the power levels of the 180 gr Federal Hunting cartridge in 357 Mag (OUCH!).

I'll keep my 357 SIG's and keep carrying them, too. However, 95% of the time I'll be carrying something in 9mm. I suspect 40 drivers who haven't gotten to that point yet will get there soon enough. Heck, I've not bought a carry 45 in over ten years, despite all the 45 range toys, so maybe we can start planning for the demise of 45 ACP next!

I didn't find shooting the Shield 40, G23/22 SR40 M&P 40 or my Sig 229 unpleasant or felt like any of them recoil much at all even with some of the hottest ammo on the market, thankfully variety is the spice of life and we all get to shoot what makes us smile

 

[JO JO]

I think the 40 is a fantastic caliber, I have a 40 shield and a few g23's and carried a p229 for duty, I never felt the recoil is a issue at all,

 

[jeff-10]

The 40 S&W is my favorite handgun round. Not sure why it seems to generate hate but if you have followed Internet forums for awhile and gun magazines prior to the Internet, the 9mm used to generate much the same hate. I've had numerous 40 caliber handguns over the years and the 3 I have stuck with are the S&W 4006, Beretta 96A1 and Glock 23. 3 great service guns that are accurate, reliable and certainly hold more rounds than most 357 Magnum's or 45 ACP's. I don't think that many of its detractors are arguing it doesn't have sufficient power for self defense purposes.

Now if the 10mm Auto, 38 Super, 44-40, 32 ACP, 32 H&R Magnum, 45 Colt, 44 Special, 41 Magnum and numerous other handgun cartridges are still pretty prevalent how can a cartridge used by the US Marshals, DEA, Border Patrol and numerous other police agencies be dead?

 

[CDW4ME]

I like 40 in Glock 23 size or larger pistol.
40 is a compromise of capacity and caliber, what it was designed to be.
Advancement in ammo improved 40 and 45, not just 9mm; given equal bullets, (HST vs HST) 40 makes a bigger hole than 9mm.
One can debate the potential difference a larger hole might make, but larger hole (same placement) is better.
In pocket size guns, 9mm becomes an easier choice; I've got a PM40 and a PM9, PM40 definitely has snap (recoil).

Chrono averages for at least 5 shots.
PM40
180 gr. Federal HST @ 947 fps
180 gr. Speer Gold Dot @ 950 fps
155 gr. Federal Bonded @ 1,086 fps (406# KE)
Glock 23:
Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. @ 1,048 fps
Federal HST 180 gr. @ 1,003 fps
Winchester Ranger T 165 @ 1,146 fps (481# KE)

 

[joed]

I bought a M&P .40 S&W a couple months ago. Jury is still out on it, I'm not sure how I like it. What I don't like is it's a small pistol and a follow up shot isn't very quick. I'd like this one more if I'd gotten the ported version. As some have said this cartridge would be better in a heavier pistol.

You can't compare it to a .45acp because most guns in .45 are bigger and heavier which makes it more manageable.

So far I've only shot the 180 gr bullets in the .40. Soon as I try a few more I'll form a better opinion.

 

[JohnBiltz]

Back when .40 first came out and it was the greatest thing ever. I bought a Gen 2 Glock 23. Shot it for a year, probably 3 or 4,000 rounds through it, hated it. Recoil was not the problem, muzzle flip was. I did not sell my Ruger Redhawk but I got rid of that Glock. Keep in mind the gun rags were still praising the .40 there was no internet to follow. I just don't like to shoot .40. It makes for a slow follow up shot for me.

Here is the truth, every police department that switched to .40 showed an average decline in shooting scores. Police departments that switched to 9mm from .40 showed average scores improved. This is not fantasy stuff, you like the round, great for you, but on the average people shoot better with 9mm than they do with .40.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

I have (3) 40 cal pistols right now. HK P-30, Ruger SR40-C and a Walther PPX. Both the HK and the Ruger really tame the recoil of the 40, by their design. The Ruger has extra slide mass and the HK was a weighted buffer on the recoil spring, plus a low bore axis. The Walther is a different story, high bore axis = pretty snappy. Its extremely accurate though and for 300 bucks, a great pistol.

I'll continue to buy and shoot 40 cal's.

 

[oldrevolverguy]

I own and carry 9MM, 40 S&W, 357 Sig, 10MM and 45ACP at various times depending on the situation. The 40 has proven itself on the street as an effective option. There is no free lunch when it comes to recoil. If you want to dispense maximum energy towards the target, you will feel the equal but opposite reaction in the form of recoil. My favorite 40 is the full size Glock 22. Just because the 9MM with premium JHPs has largely caught up to the 40 in effectiveness does not diminish the 40's capabilities in any way. I am a student of the art and feel that all of the above named calibers have their strengths and weaknesses. It is nice to have options.

 

[BearBrimstone]

I am a fan of the 40 S&W. I am a fan of every caliber though. I have never understood the arguments over calibers. They are all fun to shoot and will all make a hole in something if you need them too. It might hurt like hell but even the 500 magnum in a j-frame would be fun to shoot all the way to the ER for your broken hand.

 

[DeadEye9]

I laugh every time I see a thread about the "dead" or "dying" .40 S&W also laugh at the hand wringing "it kicks to hard" crowd that then loads their G19 or Micro 9mm with the hottest +p+ ammo they can find and claim it performs just as good as the .40 or .45 (at those pressures and speeds they are getting .40 recoil). The .45 guys say it hits nearly as hard as the .45 yet most SD .40 hits harder than standard pressure 230 gr. 45., you have to go up to +p 230 gr. or drop down to the 200 and 185 gr. loads to get into the .40 S&W SD ammo performance envelope in the standard 165-180 gr. weights. Then we have the 10mm guys who call it "the short and weak" yet it will match most factory 10mm until you get into the premium JHPs.

I think it is hated because it does everything you need a pistol caliber to do by just changing ammo, and in factory ammo it is loaded from 292ft-lbs to 754 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. 13 different bullet weights in regular ammo, and 6 hyper-lite or fragnible rounds that I can find. these are offered by every ammo manufacture in one form or another.

I will admit it is a bit much in the sub-compact and micros but you can tailor your ammo to those little guys with good ammo that recoils no more than good 9mm SD ammo that most carry in those guns. so if you do have a "little" .40 get those hotter SD 165-180 gr. rounds out of it and load it something like these.
Federal 135gr. guard dog or low recoil 135gr. Federal hydra shok. or if you prefer a heavier bullet a Fioccho 155 XTP @ 950 FPS or 180gr. xtp @ 950FPS....it's not perfect but if a Micro 40 is all you have it gives you a more pleasant to shoot option without loosing money on a trade for a in high demand micro 9mm.

Now what about ammo selection, truthfully it is freaking huge.

100 gr AFR Extreme Shock.
115 gr. Glaser SS.
125 gr. Tac-xp.
130 gr. mag-Tech SCHP.
135 gr. 7 different offerings.
140 gr. 5 different offerings
150 gr. Nosler,EPR,Hi-Shok
155 gr 16 different offerings
160 gr. Mag-tech LSWC
165 gr. 15 different offerings
180 gr. 26 different offerings
200 gr. 4 offerings so far
and that is just SD ammo, doesn't include all the FMJ and practice rounds

I know a lot of you think you have no use for a .40 but do yourself a favor pick one up and chunk it in the safe, there are a butt load of police trade in pistols and used ones floating around cheap. then any time you see a box of ammo on sale and have the extra cash grab a box, sooner or later you will find a use for it, even if it is to sell it to me lol.

There's nothing wrong with .40, but at the same time there is nothing inherently better about a 40 than a .45 or 9mm either. What it comes down to is training (I.e. Shot placement) and using the proper loading. Having studied a ton of autopsy reports, police reports etc along with my experience in the field early in life, there truly is very little if any difference between a GSW made by a modern 9mm vs a .40 vs a .45. (Or for that matter even a .357)
The old theory of "stopping power" really doesnt mean anything. Service handguns in general are not ideally suited for human size targets, they are just easy to carry and have readily available. The biggest factor of "stopping power" is not what handgun caliber you are hit with, but where that bullet hits. I've seen cases where someone with multiple .44 mags to the abdomen were completely ambulatory and drove them self to the ER. I've also seen cases where a single 9mm to the chest was fatal within 90 seconds. The difference? The 9mm went through the right ventricle of the heart and pierced a lung whereas the two .44 slugs perforated only the stomach and exited soft tissue.
The reason I personally choose 9mm over .40 is not recoil; honestly I say they have a very similar feel. Magazine capacity in a given size firearm is what swayed me to 9. I get 15rds in a flush mag or 33 in an extended mag vs 13 and 22 rounds. To me that is more of an advantage than a slightly larger bullet. Even if you are an "energy freak" and say .40 has more energy per shot, the extra rounds in a 9mm magazine still gives you the same amount of "energy" able to be sent down range, with more chances to hit something vital which is what really matters.
As I started by saying there's nothing wrong with any of the common service calibers if you shoot them right and choose the right ammo. However there is also no disadvantage to using one service caliber vs another. As long as YOU can shoot your carry weapon and load well you should be ok. If you think that just because you carry a .40 or .45 it automatically gives you an advantage over anyone carrying a 9mm though you are foolish. The only perfect caliber is the caliber you shoot best and put the rounds where they need to be.
Lastly, about the +P craze and all that, everyone I talk to that actually has knowledge of defensive shooting really doesn't use any exotic super pressure ammo. Standard pressure in a well designed bullet is just as effective as +P loadings. There is no free lunch in ballistics; if you increase velocity with a +P you will get more expansion but at a sacrifice of penetration. If you use standard pressure you typically get a little less expansion but more penetration. Choosing ammo comes down to what your preferences are much like choosing caliber, however again thinking that the fastest round with the most energy on paper is the "best" is a foolish thought. You can have a 700 ft/lb 10mm load that only penetrates 6-7 inches and doesn't do any real damage, and then a 350 ft/lb load from a 9mm that goes 15" and drops the threat. Temporary wound cavity and fragmentation is NOT a reliable wounding mechanism for handgun calibers. Important tissues and structures need to be struck directly by a handgun in order for quick incapacitation to occur. Pain occurring from superficial shockwave/frag wounds are not a reliable stopper with a handgun. This is why all the new exotic ammo is not recommended.
Stick with any service caliber you can shoot well with a load proven to perform on the street (not on YouTube) and keep up your training and that is the Most effective handgun system.

In general these loads are proven in the common service calibers (9,40,45)
Federal HST
Federal Tactical Bonded
Speer Gold Dot
Hornady Critical Duty
Remington Golden Sabre BONDED
Winchester PDX1
Barnes all copper HP as loaded by anyone but Barnes themself. (Not enough velocity in their own loads)
These are by and large the top performers in the field. Runners up that are still good but have some issues of subpar expansion or undesirable weight retention in real shootings are:

Remington Golden Sabre non bonded
Hornady XTP
Hornady Critical Defense
Winchester Ranger T series
Winchester SXT series
Remington Black Belt/HTP
Federal 9BPLE
CorBon (not PowRball)
Winchester Black Talon

Loads that do not perform well at all or are completely unproven are:
Winchester white box
Winchester Silvertip
Remington UMC JHP
Fiocci star JHP
IMI DiCut JHP
CorBon PowRball
Glasser safety slugs
Extreme Shock
GriZly all copper HP
Liberty Halo Point/Civil Defense
RIP ammo
MagTech Guardian Gold
Along with basically all the new oddball exotics released in the last few years. No large police department or other group is using them therefor the data is just not out there on how they truly perform. If you want to gamble hit the casino, don't do it with your defensive carry ammo. Carry something PROVEN to stop threats and perform adequately in real world defensive shootings.

 

[Fleetman]

I like 'em;
Beretta 96
Star 31-P
Keltec P40
Glock 27
Shield 40

I also just purchased a ASR (Aero) in 10mm and purchasing the .40 barrel for more economic plinking.

 

[DeadEye9]

View attachment 228250 I like 'em;
Beretta 96
Star 31-P
Keltec P40
Glock 27
Shield 40

I also just purchased a ASR (Aero) in 10mm and purchasing the .40 barrel for more economic plinking.

The .40 economy factor is def good for those that like 10mm type rounds but don't hand load. I love shooting 10mm and have quite a few pistols in that chambering, but it's not something I use for defensive purposes against two legged threats. I guess the only reason I never got into .40 was because I got into 10mm shooting and loading early on in my shooting career so there's really no reason for ME to adapt any new pistols in .40. I can load light 10mm if I want "40" performance. I don't think the .40 is a bad caliber by any means, but neither is .45 or 9mm for that matter. They all do the job of you do and will fail if you fail.

 

[golden]

The .40 S&W is not dead by a long shot, but neither is it the end all, must have that it was seen just 5 years ago. Police agencies are not jumping on the .40 caliber bandwagon like they used to.
Falling qualification scores and liability law suits have them really worried.
Arguments that new officers are not manly enough to shoot the .40 S&W are just idiotic nonsense. You have to arm the people you have with equipment that they can use. We found that female and small statured males could shoot the .357 magnum revolver just fine if the ammo selection was reasonable. We used the 110 grain jhp and did not have any complaints with it. I saw officers standing only 5 feet tall shoot it with proper training.

If the U.S. military adopts the .40 S&W, as it has been discussing, then it will be popular for several more decades. However, now that the FBI, after years off posturing on how great the .40 is, now is going to issue 9m.m. GLOCKS, you have to wonder. I think that the .40 S&W will gradually become just another caliber out there with diminishing popularity as shooters get older and do not want the extra recoil.
I have sold most of my .40 S&W pistols and switched over to 9m.m. I still carry a .40 on duty, but not by choice.
If I am carrying a .40 and it is not loaded with the high velocity 155 or 165 grain hollow points, I see no advantage over the 9m.m. My agency used the 155 grain jhp as our first .40 S&W load and it worked really well, with results like the previous .357 magnum ammo we had carried.
Now we are using the 180 grain jhp and I just do not see any advantage over a standard velocity 9m.m. SPEER Gold Dot or FEDERAL HST. I would rank the +P 9m.m. as better than the 180 grain jhp .40 caliber load any day.

Jim

 

[JO JO]

The issue with the majority of the LEO / FBI and so on is they shoot once a year maybe twice to maintain qualifications and then put it in the holster till next year you can't expect them to be a good marksman and 95% will never fire their gun in the line of duty, when I was in the service we did some training with some local LEO's and they could not shoot very well at all so I understand them going to a more forgiving platform, we also did some training with the swat guys they could shoot very well and they train much more often then the normal LEO and the swat guys I talked with were not carrying a 9mm , this is just my opinion and what I seen,

 

[JO JO]

If your going to use a hot 9mm as in the +p+ stuff then you still have the recoil and wear on the gun ? Never understood this ?

 

[golden]

Jo Jo,

I do not see a lot of the +P+ being used anymore. +P will do about the same thing and does not have any liability problems.

When I was switched from a .357 to a 9m.m., my agency was issuing WINCHESTER 115 grain jhp +P+. At that time, the only really superior bullets were the HYDRA SHOK. The +P+ from FEDERAL and WINCHESTER stepped up the 9m.m. velocity to a low end .357 magnum performance and that was great. We never had any complaints from the field with them.
I think you can do just as well with the better bullets available now with less recoil from +P loads compared to +P+. When I shoot +P, I notice the louder bang, the stronger recoil and brighter flash than standard pressure 9m.m. However, I am getting a higher level of performance than either standard pressure 9m.m. or the 180 grain .40 ammo. It is a trade off and most officers seem to be able to shoot +P 9m.m. and qualify.
Now we have better bullets and more efficient powders, so you can do whatever you need with a +P.

Also, the 180 grain is slow. So if given a choice between a faster 9m.m. or a SLOW 180 grain, I will stick with less recoil and better performance. The .40 caliber can get much better performance with hotter loads like the near 1200 fps 155 grain jhp, but you pay for it in recoil.
You can still get better performance out of a 9m.m. using the +P loads than the 180 grain jhp, with less recoil than the 155 or 165 grain jhp loads which kick harder.

Also, departments vary. My agency used a 4 times a years revolver course, then stepped up to a 72 round qualifier which you had to pass at least twice, when we went to the BERETTA 96/.40 caliber 155 grain load. Then a local director tried to "paperwork" us down to twice a year by writing exemptions from qualification to save overtime. Then when I transferred offices, we went to the 135 grain loads after dropping the 9m.m. GLOCK that some legacy officers still carried and went to 3 times a year.
Now we are down to the 180 grain jhp, but back to 4 times a year for qualifications.
I remember shooting with some DEA Agents in South Florida and they were really pushing their skills with an IPSIC competitor helping them set up hostage scenario target situations. My agency only does that once a year and it depends on who is giving the training.

Jim

p.s.-I would expect SWAT to shoot better, otherwise why would you pay for them. Like any other special use team, they are expensive to train, equip and maintain.

 

[JO JO]

True I was told years ago when you ask why mostly the answer has to do with money and I believe that to be true for the most part

 

[SigP229R]

I bought my first .40 back in either '99 or 2000. It was an old Ruger P94. I didn't really get seriously interested in handguns until around '07. I bought a XD-40 then. I like the round though I am aware some don't. In a sub-compact I have always tended to go to 9mm. I don't know whether I will buy another handgun this year or not but I keep finding myself looking at the Sig P229R CPO's. I'm not really a DA/SA fan but these pistols interest me. For now the old XD is my usual companion though.

First 40 I bought was a P229R CPO and it was nearly like new. First ammo I bought was 180 Gr. however when I re-ordered I bought Double Tap 155 and it serves well. I have it loaded in both of my 40 S&W pistols. You will NOT be disappointed in the 229 CPO.