The best 12ga 00 buck for burglars & blackguards...

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As noted "after the events of the last few days"... it's a serious wakeup call for politicians that think they can ride to office by accusing the police (and I sure hope voters everywhere pay attention to what can happen if you cater to the mob...).

All of which brings me back to the ultimate home defender (in my opinion) - a short barreled 12ga loaded with decent ammo (if you haven't gotten the idea by now - good luck...).

As a guy who entered police work the last week of 1973 and left it 22 years later these current events have a terrrible "deja vu" aspect since this is the same world any rookie cop came into back in the 1970's (wish it weren't so...). Many departments worked hard from then on to seriously up-grade their officer safety training ( I contributed my bit years later when I was charged with personnel and training stuff for my 100 man department for about three years....). I can't say today whether that hard won knowlege was successfully kept as an important part of officer training. I sure hope it was since tactics encouraged by proper training go a long way to cutting down casualties on the street. In my era I learned the hard way never to allow anyone on foot to approach me if I was parked somwhere. I made it a strict rule to always step out of my car if I saw anyone approaching on foot (at least on your feet you have a chance if things break bad on you....). I must admit, though, that I never worked in the kind of cold climate guys up in the northeast have to endure each winter...

A good primer for any young cop (or serious self defense student) back then was the book, Street Survival, since it was developed as a direct response to many cold blooded shootings of cops back then. The basic principles in that old book are still quite valid today... whether you're un-armed, using a sidearm, or any long gun -shotgun or rifle.
 
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As noted "after the events of the last few days"... is a serious wakeup call for politicians that think they can ride to office by accusing the police (and I sure hope voters everywhere pay attention to what can happen if you cater to the mob...).

All of which brings me back to the ultimate home defender (in my opinion) - a short barreled 12ga loaded with decent ammo (if you haven't gotten the idea by now - good luck...).

As a guy who entered police work the last week of 1973 and left it 22 years later these current events have a terrrible "deja vu" aspect since this is the same world any rookie cop came into back in the 1970's (wish it weren't so...). Many departments worked hard from then on to seriously up-grade their officer safety training ( I contributed my bit years later when I was charged with personnel and training stuff for my 100 man department for about three years....).

A good primer for any young cop (or serious self defense student) back then was the book, Street Survival since it was developed as a direct response to many cold blooded shootings of cops back then. The basic principles in that old book are still quite valid today... whether you're un-armed, usind a sidearm, or any long gun -shotgun or rifle.

Ah yes, Street Survival, The Tactical Edge, and I think there was a third. Remsberg, Calibre Press. I just Googled and they appear much easier to find/purchase now than they were some years ago when I picked them up. You can buy Street Survival used for $9-$14 shipped on Amazon.

This is a little off topic, but not everybody agrees that a shotgun is the ultimate home defender. But then again not many people would argue with a determined man wielding said shotgun.
 
Just had to chuckle, truth makes the best humor. Can't wait to see what my shoulder feels like after a tactical shotgun class coming up.

Do you have low/reduced/managed recoil buckshot? Lots of quality options out there and it'll still put the hurt on the other end...not so much on your end though.
 
JamieC View Post said:
Just had to chuckle, truth makes the best humor. Can't wait to see what my shoulder feels like after a tactical shotgun class coming up.

The "military" branded 9 pellet 00 buck shot you can find off the shelf feels like a lighter recoiling load to my shoulder compared to other loads. You could try that. A limbsaver would probably be a worthwhile investment before the class as well.
 
I just put a box of rounds down the tube. My shoulder still much prefers 7 1/2 stuff.
Field 00 buckshot tends to be loaded hotter than SD/HD buckshot. Some years back, the LE folk determined that they could get better shot-to-shot performance and equal-to-better terminal effects with a 8-pellet or 9-pellet 00 2 3/4" load at 1200fps or so than they could with traditional 'field' buckshot, and hence the 'LE' (HD/SD) buckshot variant was born. The difference in recoil is noticeable, as is the reduction in muzzle flash from the LE/HD buckshot.
 
How many times have you been under siege in the last couple of years ?

So much for buying out the store. "laying in a good supply."
 
I usually have two or three 250rd cases of my preferred buckshot on hand. It doesn't take up much room in the closet, and I don't have to worry about running out as I consume it at the range or in a class.
 
As to buying up what is available......anyone been paying attention to the .22LR situation the last eighteen months or so? Would you have believed it if I said that was coming five years ago?

Hording does make some sense for folks that actually practice once in a while.

I really liked the old Federal LE 0032 and as a result still have some.

Someone a few years back asked me how much .22LR I kept on hand and when I told him he laughed and called me a survivalist......recently he asked if I could loan him a few boxes...... think about it.

Like "forty -seven-eleven" other folks on here I recommend whatever LE OO load your gun likes and you can shoot. For home defense loads I would not likely spend the extra money on the controlled flight types of piston/wad combos that do not separate until 15 yards out (got any halls longer than 45 feet) as I do not have a hall to long to allow a 100 percent pattern even with cheap no nothing buck. I just originally bought the Federal LE 0032 for a class and bought enough for a couple of classes as it was recommended and some for occasional practice. I liked it in the class and bought a case I found at a local gun show to replace the rounds shot in the first class. Did not take the second class so I have plenty on hand still.

BTW I personally found that the use of #8 or #7 1/2 for training at house hold ranges is just fine. My club used to use it even on steel at 15 AND 25 yards before the ricochet fear mongers stopped us. Admittedly the 18.5 inch guns with cylinder chokes had some difficulty reliably dropping plates at 25, but you could here them and they frequently did move even if they did not fall. For 3-5-7 and 10 yard training on paper such light small sized bird shot works fine.

--kBob
 
Quote:
How many times have you been under siege in the last couple of years ?
So much for buying out the store. "laying in a good supply."

Followed shortly by this:
Someone a few years back asked me how much .22LR I kept on hand and when I told him he laughed and called me a survivalist......recently he asked if I could loan him a few boxes...... think about it.

Read the commodities page in your local newspaper. Look at the trend in prices of everything, including ammunition. Mocking or throwing snark at someone for wanting to stock up on ammo is displaying gross ignorance of basic economics and recent history. I start to eyeball my supply when i have less than 2,000 rounds in any given caliber. Not total rounds of ammo, but per caliber. Especially the most common ones, like .22LR, 12 gauge, .223, .308, etc. All of which I shoot. At one point, I had a literal pickup truck load of .22LR. You gonna tell me I was stupid for buying it at 59 cents a box? I haven't bought .22 in years. Still shooting that 59 cent stuff while people like post # 107 were panicking about not finding any.
 
Absolutely true. The year 1911 guy joined THR you could buy 100 rounds of Winchester White Box 9mm Luger at Walmart for ~$10.34/100. What does that cost today? Around $26.
 
You asking what brand or do you think 00 is the only buckshot size? If the former, you have to pattern buckshot with your shotgun just like any other shot size. And use the brand that gives the smallest pattern at whatever distance(under 35 yards regardless of brand) you need. If the latter, you need to do some reading first.
"...but what's a "blackguard"?..." Geezuz, that's The Queen's English. snicker.
http://dictionary.reference.com/
Everything will penetrate dry wall. A modern apartment building is better than a house. Walls between units are solid concrete vs sometimes the thin wooden walls of a detached house. Plus the windows and doors. Not as many of either in an apartment.
 
Noted that someone advised that the smaller the pattern the better.... I was taught this simple rule (and we proved it with actual patterning over and over at the range...). For basic no frills police shotguns (moss, rem, improved cylinder riot configured) with an 18" barrel our standard 00buck dispersed one inch per meter from the muzzle very reliably. That means at seven meters a seven inch pattern for example. If you plan on using a shotgun for home defense I'd guess that any shots over 15 meters (backyard distances...) would not occur very often....

Now if you're on the street in a fluid close quarters encounter then the much tighter patterns that you'd get with Flite Control wads (or something similar) would really come into their own... That sort of ammo just wasn't around when I was a cop, though...
 
Noted that someone advised that the smaller the pattern the better.... I was taught this simple rule (and we proved it with actual patterning over and over at the range...). For basic no frills police shotguns (moss, rem, improved cylinder riot configured) with an 18" barrel our standard 00buck dispersed one inch per meter from the muzzle very reliably. That means at seven meters a seven inch pattern for example. If you plan on using a shotgun for home defense I'd guess that any shots over 15 meters (backyard distances...) would not occur very often....

Now if you're on the street in a fluid close quarters encounter then the much tighter patterns that you'd get with Flite Control wads (or something similar) would really come into their own... That sort of ammo just wasn't around when I was a cop, though...

Even inside the home I'd still rather have a smaller pattern. Errant pellets are a liability.

This is how mine patterns at 25 yards. POA = POI

(at 21 feet or so it basically puts every pellet into one hole)

2089zjs.jpg
 
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