The Biathlon

[Paints]

They are .22lr, though they shot 7.62 NATO until the late 70's.

Interesting. I had commented to my wife that, because of the origins of the sport (ski troops), they ought to be using military caliber rifles. I guess my comment was "on target" ;-)

It was quite good shooting.

Ken

 

[Paints]

It's a *big* deal to those nations, whereas most Americans probably don't even know what it is. Our guys have to scratch by on nothing, so there's little incentive for athletes to stick with it. Those who do must be truly committed.

Well, I thought the idea of the Olympics USED to be amateurs who had true commitment to their sport. Of course, that's been totally lost in recent years. I remember when many of the competitors had jobs and practiced in their spare time. Now it seems that most of the "sports" are totally based on money. Perhaps biathalon is still a hold out to some extent.

Ken

 

[NMGonzo]

The gun laws in Canada probably don't impact too much on the Olympic shooting events. As I understand it, bolt-action rifles are classified as non-restricted firearms and simply need to be transported unloaded and locked up when not in use. Since there are no pistol shooting events in the Winter Olympics, the athletes don't need to deal with the more stringent rules on restricted firearms.

The bigger deal is with the 2012 Summer Olympics, in London. There are pistol events in the Summer Olympics. British laws of course ban all handguns in England, Scotland, and Wales, so the British shoter have to go abroad to train. I hear there will be a temporary relaxation of the handgun ban for the athletes during the Olympics.

Well ... that is the loophole.

Now make it bigger.

 

[Paints]

The bigger deal is with the 2012 Summer Olympics, in London. There are pistol events in the Summer Olympics. British laws of course ban all handguns in England, Scotland, and Wales, so the British shoter have to go abroad to train. I hear there will be a temporary relaxation of the handgun ban for the athletes during the Olympics.

But how do people get started in the sport and work their way up to a competitive level? Oh, I guess all the Brits need are those rich enough to regularly travel overseas. Only the rich and privileged need apply.

 

[d2wing]

Ski troops or mountain troops are are a part of the U.S. Army and many other countries. Biathalon is popular in Europe and has feeder programs. It requires alot of training and dedication. In the US there aren't lot's of training programs or public support like there is in many other countries. I used to be an avid skier and would have liked to have done it but I did not know about it or have access to a training program when I was young.
As far as snot, you're obviously not an athlete or ever been in cold weather.
Biathalon athletes burn tremendous amounts of calories, breath alot of air and that air must be moisturized by nasal passages. It takes more moisture
in cold dry air as well as there is much more condensation. Ever see your breath on a cold day?

 

[Paints]

Ski troops or mountain troops are are a part of the U.S. Army and many other countries.

After WWII, it appears that the only "Mountain Division" (10th) in the US Army is NOT trained in ski operations, but rather as light infantry.

Ken

 

[d2wing]

I know guys that have trained on skis and snowshoes, and I know a guy that teaches mountain climbing. I do not know what outfit they are in or if ski training is just for mtn troops. Maybe it has gone away like the mule. Which I hear is coming back.
It is difficult to hunt on skis, not just because of the heavy breathng but you need to use poles which means your rifle or shotgun must be slung. It takes time to unsling and shoot. Snowshoeing is much slower but you can do it without poles so it is more practical for hunting. This is the first year in a long time that I have done much of either. The snow is much too deep to walk in. Several guys are hunting coyotes on snowmobile this year.
I see biathlon as more a military related sport than hunting. Both for troop movement and patrol it's pretty essential in snowbound areas. Of course a snowmobile with a pair of M-60's would be more fun.

 

[Cosmoline]

I really don't think it's about money. It's not a particularly expensive sport, is it?

It's pretty cheap, for sure. Much cheaper than mushing for example. But it still requires endorsements which require enough people to give a rip about it or to at least know what it is. As it stands now it's a very exotic and foreign sport, like something a James Bond villain would do. But I think that's slowly changing. You're absolutely right that it wouldn't take much attention stateside to dramatically increase the number of athletes and sponsors for this sport. The millions of avid US shooters could certainly help. But most of them who hunt or shoot in the snow use the biggest, meanest snow machine they can afford.

 

[Paints]

Both for troop movement and patrol it's pretty essential in snowbound areas.

I doubt that it is "high tech" enough to satisfy Pentagon budgets. Looking at the website for the U.S. 10th Mountain Division (and Wikipedia), there is no mention of ski use in the current US Army.

 

[M67]

Cosmo, would you like some cheese with your whine?

As it stands now it's a very exotic and foreign sport, like something a James Bond villain would do.

Funny you should use the word villain. But I guess that's how millions and millions of Americans view the shooting sports.

The millions of avid US shooters could certainly help.

Well, yes. Maybe.

There are a lot of gun owners in the US. There are not a lot of shooters at the level we are talking about here. When it comes to competitive shooting at the level of these athletes, even without mixing in the skiing at all, I think the number might be far less impressive than most Americans might think.

Heck, Norway has less people than Colorado and we just got the fifth gold so far in these Olympics. As far as whining rights are concerned, who has the biggest disadvantage, a country of 4.5 million or a country of 300 million? Underdog my butt.

To keep it gun related, only two gold and two silver in the biathlon so far...

 

[jobu07]

As you could probably guess, the Army does have a biathlon team. It was coached by one of the "local heroes" from my area, who also coached the US national team.

Here's a picture of a U.S. Servicemember participating in the biathilon I saw on AKO today. Again, not my photo - snapped by a military photog. Nice shot of Team USA in action though.

 

[Bart B.]

When the Scandanavians first started the Biathlon, the 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser was "the" cartridge for the 300 meter targets. It was very accurate in the military style rifles required back then. That same round was used in 300 meter free rifle events by many Europeans at the Summer Games. When the .308 Win. came out, it became a favorite of USA Biathletes.

In 1976(?), the IOC decided to stop all 300 meter shooting with centerfire arms. Too many countries wanted to jump on that bandwagon, but range safety zones were hard to come by in many areas on the planet. So they changed to .22 rimfire at 50 meters. 'Twas easy to build indoor ranges for this and the 3+ mile safety zone behind the impact area was no longer needed.

I didn't see this mentioned earlier in these threads, but Anschutz uses a Fortner action design which I understand is a modified Anschutz action changed by a guy with that name. It's faster and requires less movement by the shooter's hand and fingers than a regular bolt action which makes it great for the biathlon. The ammo used in these rifles typically shoots about 3/4 inch at 50 meters. Not as good as .22 rimfire bolt action free rifles do at 1/4 inch at 50 meters, but good enough for the game the skiing shooters play.

 

[52grain]

they do look pretty funky-

I wonder what all of the idiots in Congress would say about the pistol grip. Is that an assault biathlon rifle?

 

[Justin]

It's pretty cheap, for sure. Much cheaper than mushing for example. But it still requires endorsements which require enough people to give a rip about it or to at least know what it is.

The cost of the equipment pales in comparison to the time costs incurred by an athlete who wishes to compete on the Olympic level. At that level, your chosen sport is, quite literally, a full-time job.

Also, it's not like cases of Eley are as easy or cheap to come by as Federal bulk pack.

 

[MikePGS]

I remember when many of the competitors had jobs and practiced in their spare time.

They still do for some sports. I specifically heard that all four members of USA's curling team live together. One is a bartender, and I forget what the rest do.

 

[Ken451]

I don't think curling is a high cost sport

All you need is a rock and a broom! It is neat to watch, thought.

Ken

 

[Detritus]

I don't think curling is a high cost sport

All you need is a rock and a broom!

well those rocks (the "elite" quality ones used in the olympics) cost about $30,000 a set.
And that will go up in leaps and bounds, since the supply of the specific granite used to make the Olympic-level stones is dwindling fast (the one island where the top quality stone is found is now an off-limits wildlife sanctuary).

 

[d2wing]

I doubt that it is "high tech" enough to satisfy Pentagon budgets. Looking at the website for the U.S. 10th Mountain Division (and Wikipedia), there is no mention of ski use in the current US Army.

As it turns out, both the Army and Marine's have cold climate training units. Only the Marine one is called a Mtn unit though. The Army unit is in Alaska. I was correct in that they train useing skis and snowshoes but the Army Units are not refered to as mountain troops anymore.
I did some xc skiing and shooting today. It's pretty hard. I really admire those biathlon skiers.

 

[HarryB]

I just saw Kathleen Madigan's comedy show. She mentions the biathlon in her act. Paraphrasing what she said--"So here I am in last place. I have a rifle! How can I deal with the leaders?"

 

[jobu07]

Originally Posted by Paints
I doubt that it is "high tech" enough to satisfy Pentagon budgets. Looking at the website for the U.S. 10th Mountain Division (and Wikipedia), there is no mention of ski use in the current US Army.

We have Northern Warfare schools in the Army. They are located at Ft. Drum and Ft. Wainwright. While ski's are not common, they are still integrated into speciality training along with snowshoes in fact.

 

[MikePGS]

Just a heads up. Ladies Biathalon is about to be on NBC.