The dastardly $60.00+ barrier to entry of buying one's first gun

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At 14 or 15 a classmate and I skipped study hall and walked 5-6 blocks to a secondhand shop -- he got some top-break .38 (S&W?) and I got a 32 ACP, I recall they were $10 & $15. Back to school with them in jacket pockets,home again, nobody the wiser (even parents).
 
Many of the gun controls imposed during our generation(babyboomers) came about because of tragedy caused by the use of easily obtained firearms.
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Let me fix that for you for clarity and the real world.
Many of the unconstitutional unilateral civilian disarmament statutes imposed during our generation(babyboomers) came about because of widely publicized criminal activity siezed on by anti rights politicians and media, caused by the criminal misuse of firearms, whether obtained lawfully or unlawfully.
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There, I think that will do it. The actions of the criminal few do not define the lives of the lawful many.
 
At about 10 yrs old my neighbor said if I can shoot his Winchester 30-30 he would give me his .22 rifle. Well after 52 year I still have that rifle in the same condition as I received it. I have used it to teach a lot of kids how to safely use a rifle with that old Newhaven bolt action.
 
Solomonson said:
I was thinking about how I came to own my first firearm as a kid. When I was five I was walking around my neighborhood when I came across a yard sale. There was a brand new Marlin Model 100 for sale for $10.00. It was still in the box. I looked it over carefully (well, as careful as a young kid could) when its owner appeared.

The first thing he said was "Hi Solomonson, would your Father allow you to have a rifle?" I replied that I think he would. So he said "let's call him" and we went inside his house to call. He and my Dad talked for a few minutes and then hung up. My neighbor said my Dad had approved the sale.

Excited I said "let me go get the money!" as I readied myself for the 4 block run. He said "aren't you forgetting something -- your rifle?" as he handed me the boxed Marlin. Once home I laid the sweet little 22 on my bed, raided my piggy bank (with my Mom's assistance) and tore back to the seller's house to complete the deal. It was at that point that he gave me three boxes of .22 shells (shorts, in red boxes with a black stripe) and a half box of Remington.410 shells for the future.

If a young person was to get their first firearm today here in California, it would require one of their parents to spend $25.00 to take a firearms safety test, plus $25.00 in fees for the first firearm -- plus of course the 10 day wait. That $50.00 in combined fees and 10 day wait are particularly diabolical when one is trying to purchase their first firearm.

Doing that deal with my neighbor would have been even more expensive -- $60.00 including another $10.00 fee for the person to person transfer plus the wait of course.

There still are very inexpensive used first-time buyer's "beginner's" out there in the $50-100.00 range. Less if the person wants rid of the gun, or is wanting to help someone own their own gun, but the bloody fees and wait period add considerably to the cost and the effort.

I think these fees give people pause to ever getting into guns/the shooting sports while they're young and that's a same. A $25.00 fee is a prickly irritant when someone is buying their umpteenth Glock or AR. A $50-60 barrier to entry to someone buying their first firearm is downright UN-American!
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Come to amer....i mean Arizona. A sale like the one described from your youth could still go down.
 
I feel bad when I think about kids can't get away with anything, their parents watch them like they are made out of glass and will shatter if they fight, fall down, etc, and if they don't hover over them, they get into trouble with the police and child welfare agencies. We left after we got up in the morning, and came back at sunset. If a storm hit, we either stayed the night, or a friend's parent would bring us home. We explored everything in the area, We did stuff that was stupid and most of the time, we got away with it, and when something bad happened, we got chewed out and life went on. I had a fair amount of disasters over the years, from nearly getting chewed up by a wolf hybrid when I fell into it's yard off a jungle gym that was next to their fence, to doing major damage(2nd and 3rd degree burns) to my right hand making fireworks, to flipping off a minibike at 40 MPH, breaking my helmet, and being sore for two weeks afterwards from all the gravel that gouged up my back. A good friend of mine went into a panic when his 15 year old kid fell off his bike a couple of years ago. The same friend was with me when I flipped off the minibike, and he wasn't nearly as concerned about me, and I was hurt much worse than his kid was, who just was banged up and had some road rash. He's typical of a lot of parents these days, worrying about stuff that probably isn't going to happen, and crippling their kids in many ways. When I was 8, I began riding my bike to school, a couple of miles away, or I rode the public bus, not the school ones, by myself. A neighbor told me recently she didn't know if her 13 year old son was old enough to leave home alone! By the time I was 13, I stayed home alone for weekends a couple of times, while my worry wart mother and my dad went out of town. Yeah, she called me a bunch of times, but I was fine. I could cook a decent meal by then, do wash, load the dishwasher, etc. About the only thing I couldn't do at that point was drive. I'm happy I grew up when I did, when parents and police were sane, and not now, when kids are safer than they ever were, yet parents are brainwashed into thinking they aren't. The people running schools were already pretty crazy back in the 60's, but the parents balanced it out.
 
"How did we let things change so drastically?"
Indolence, apathy, lack of civic responsibility.
The people who seek to take our freedoms and erase old values are focused, ambitious and politically motivated.


"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
Plato
 
At least around these parts there are still some good parents that raise some great kids. Even though the world has changed a great deal, I think the greatest change to kids' lives are the changes in their parents. My neighbor's kids are still quite young. The husband and wife are still happily together. They take their kids to church (at least) weekly. I see them hiking (and I mean rigorously hiking!) as a family on a regular basis. I understand the kids are excellent students and I see them riding their bikes to elementary school. I also know they plink as a family because I've had more than a few conversations with the father about the price and availability of .22 ammo.

Those kids are going to end-up leading far different lives than faithless, housebound, couch-surfing, Xbox-playing, cellphone addicted kids that are so common today. Yes, the world has changed greatly. But it's still more than possible to allow kids to enjoy a wonderful upbringing -- if the parents are willing to make the effort.
 
Sistema1927 said:
Huh?

It wasn't the "easily obtained firearms" that caused those tragedies, but they made an excellent scapegoat. JFK, RFK, and MLK would still be just as dead since Lee Harvey Oswald, Sirhan Sirhan, and James Earl Ray wanted them dead, and would have found a way to obtain their weapons and ammunition regardless of controls.
.
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armoredman said:
Let me fix that for you for clarity and the real world.
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If either of you had read beyond that first line you would have seen I also wrote this....

That does not mean I agree with all of the gun control implemented since I bought my first gun, just that one needs to keep things in perspective.
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Changing what I wrote does not change that gun controls were implemented and does not change the reasons why they were implemented. You and I may not agree with the folks that implemented those controls, that they were necessary or that they made it in any way more difficult for criminal to get firearms, but the fact remains, most were implemented with the intentions to make firearms harder for criminals to obtain, or in the case of domestic abuse, to keep a crime from being committed. As for those laws being unconstitutional, none of us here are in the position to decide that. Even in California, the laws implemented were done by folks that others elected to represent them. Attempting to trash me in your frustration, does not change that fact either, nor will it change those laws and controls. Again, just the way America works. Not always perfect, but still the best in the world. That still goes for access to firearms to the average civilian. While we can whine all we want about fees and restrictions, background checks and waiting periods, the fact remains, it is still one of the easiest countries in the world to obtain a firearm, probably the country with the most selection and variety of firearms accessible to civilians and probably the country with the highest percentage of civilians that can afford firearms. Is our 2nd Amendment being infringed upon? Maybe, a little in my opinion, but being a grump on a internet forum or whining about how wonderful the good ol days were, isn't gonna change that. No one can go back and change history. No one, even self proclaimed internet visionaries, can say JFK would have died in Dallas even if Oswald couldn't have ordered a gun thru the mail. Just too many variables and too much left to chance. Part of the problems with the assassinations of JFK and his brother RFK was not the ease of access to guns, but the ease of access to the assassin's target. Same as how Oswald got killed.

Now trash me if you want on this, but I still would not want a neighbor to give my unsupervised 5 year old grandkid a gun and ammo for it and tell them to go have fun, nor would I let my 5 year old grandkid take any of my firearms out without supervision. As a nine year old kid I used to take my old SS .22 to the dump with the rest of the neighborhood kids unsupervised to shoot rats. I still have a scar on my head where I was grazed by a round from a 11 year old who swung and shot from behind me. None of us has any kind of firearm safety instruction, either organized or by our family. We just has access to guns and ammo and left to our own intentions. No one ever spoke of what really happened to our parents for fear we would lose that access. Some things have changed for the better.
 
bandur60 said:
At 14 or 15 a classmate and I skipped study hall and walked 5-6 blocks to a secondhand shop -- he got some top-break .38 (S&W?) and I got a 32 ACP, I recall they were $10 & $15. Back to school with them in jacket pockets,home again, nobody the wiser (even parents).
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What you describe isn't good in my opinion. Interesting, but not good.
 
If you didn't have a gun, you could go to the local fair when it came to town and shoot .22 gallery guns with .22 shorts to win a cheap prize. And yes, the sights or barrels were so off, you spent enough money trying to figure where it was hitting to just pay for the prize. But there was not an age limit I remember.
 
Solomonson said:
What you describe isn't good in my opinion. Interesting, but not good.
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I don't see anything all that wrong with it aside from (possibly?)feeling the need to hide it from mom and Dad. I would have a talk with my child and say you don't need to hide anything from me, let's go out and shoot it
 
captain awesome said:
I don't see anything all that wrong with it aside from (possibly?)feeling the need to hide it from mom and Dad. I would have a talk with my child and say you don't need to hide anything from me, let's go out and shoot it
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As much as I dislike gov't intervention -- particularly in the case of gun control, selling handguns to 14-15 year olds is spectacularly bad form. While it worked out in your case, there's no doubt that such sellers also sold to minors who did bad things with the firearms -- the sorts of things that come with a lack of maturity.
 
Solomonson said:
As much as I dislike gov't intervention -- particularly in the case of gun control, selling handguns to 14-15 year olds is spectacularly bad form. While it worked out in your case, there's no doubt that such sellers also sold to minors who did bad things with the firearms -- the sorts of things that come with a lack of maturity.
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Well that thinking, and fear And distrust of having guns in others hand is very similar to the antis line of thinking. I intend absolutely no offense by it, but think about it. People weren't getting gunned down in the streets by children back then and if they were available to minors I still believe that would be the case....as it is the case. I k ow for a fact there are a lot of minors that do have access to guns...millions? I don't know numbers...and it's still not a problem. Shootings are very rare per capita, even rarer with our youth.
 
captain awesome said:
Well that thinking, and fear And distrust of having guns in others hand is very similar to the antis line of thinking. I intend absolutely no offense by it, but think about it. People weren't getting gunned down in the streets by children back then and if they were available to minors I still believe that would be the case....as it is the case. I k ow for a fact there are a lot of minors that do have access to guns...millions? I don't know numbers...and it's still not a problem. Shootings are very rare per capita, even rarer with our youth.
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Sorry but no sale.

#1) You're dealing with 14 or 15 year old kids, not adults. Kids aren't fully formed in the way they think at that age. Kids tend to be...immature.

#2) Your own immaturity was evidenced by your not telling your parents or heaven forbid asking their permission before your bought. A mature kid certainly would have.

#3) This is a far cry from when kids would lug 9 pound single shot .22 rifles to school for after school rifles team practice.
 
Solomonson said:
Sorry but no sale.

#1) You're dealing with 14 or 15 year old kids, not adults. Kids aren't fully formed in the way they think at that age. Kids tend to be...immature.

#2) Your own immaturity was evidenced by your not telling your parents or heaven forbid asking their permission before your bought. A mature kid certainly would have.

#3) This is a far cry from when kids would lug 9 pound single shot .22 rifles to school for after school rifles team practice.
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First of all, I did not do anything like that...not sure if you are directing
That at me? I also agree the not telling parents about it was not good.
But I said, give most people a chance and they will surprise you. Generally, people (kids as well) do not take shooting someone lightly. The ones that do, well they are the ones that end up in trouble anyway. As always passing more laws doesnt make criminals follow them
But agree to disagree I suppose.
 
Kids will always be kids. And accidents DO happen. But I don't think many could dispute that kids today are 10x more oblivious to what goes on around them then they used to be. And have a much decreased sense of responsibility than they used to. Look at the "Affluenza Teen" case. Then he violated his probation! Used to, parents made their kids pay for wrongdoings. Cops turned mischevious kids over to their parents because they knew that mom (and/or) dad were going to make sure that their kids learned a lesson. ORRRR....the parents refused to take their kids and let them sit in jail, and then took them home and gave them their own punishment.

When I was a child (4-5) I was allowed to handle my fathers service revolver whenever I wanted. But there were rules. My father retrieved the gun. He would then unload it in front of me. I would have to verify it was unloaded. Then he would close the cylinder and hand it to me. With finger nowhere near the trigger, I would then open the cylinder (while pointing in a safe diection) and verify it was unloaded, and show my father. At that point I was allowed to practice dryfiring while always pointing it in a safe direction. If I swept an animal or a person, I got my butt chewed and usually got swats and the gun was returned to its holster for the remainder of the evening, even though we both knew it was unloaded. Didn't matter. Every gun was always loaded. Was I the exception to the rule? Maybe. But it took less that ONE minute to retrieve, unload, verify, and reverify the gun was "safe" for me to handle. And I've carried those teachings with me since.

So no, it's not the age of the kids. It's the teachings of the parents, elimination of distractions, maturity of the kids, and being responsible for their actions.
 
bigbore44 said:
But I don't think many could dispute that kids today are 10x more oblivious to what goes on around them then they used to be. And have a much decreased sense of responsibility than they used to.
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Either you haven't been around too many kids lately, or you refuse to let the facts interfere with your opinion.

You think that their obliviousness and decreased sense of responsibility causes them to commit fewer violent crimes?

If not, how do you explain the juvenile violent crime rate today being about half what it was 40 years ago?

qa05201.png


https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05201
 
45_auto said:
Either you haven't been around too many kids lately, or you refuse to let the facts interfere with your opinion.

You think that their obliviousness and decreased sense of responsibility causes them to commit fewer violent crimes?

If not, how do you explain the juvenile violent crime rate today being about half what it was 40 years ago?

qa05201.png


https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/JAR_Display.asp?ID=qa05201
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Thanks for the sanity check...
 
My first gun was a Marlin model 60 that I got for Christmas when I was 10. By the time I was 12, I had a 22, a .410 pump, and a M1 carbine. All of which were kept in a gun rack in my bedroom.
 
Dragon breath said:
My first gun was a Marlin model 60 that I got for Christmas when I was 10. By the time I was 12, I had a 22, a .410 pump, and a M1 carbine. All of which were kept in a gun rack in my bedroom.
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That's about the same as me Dragon breath. My folks gave me a .22 (Model 55 Winchester) for my 10th birthday, an over/under .22 Mag/.410 Stevens for my 12th, a .308 Winchester M-100 for my 15th, and a 12ga. Remington 1100 for my 16th. And they all hung on the gun rack I built in my bedroom. Furthermore, I was the oldest of 4 siblings. I don't know how we're all still alive.:)
 
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