The elk caliber thread

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tomrkba

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A friend of mine wants to buy a hunting rifle to hunt elk. He's leaning toward 30-06 Springfield. I'm leaning toward 300 Win Mag if he can handle it since many shots will be long. But, 300 WM will be tough to learn, not to mention expensive. He'll still have to train at 100 yard increments to get to know the gun. He'll use his AR-15 to learn the basics of rifle shooting and "long" range shooting out to 200-400 yards.

Someone I know mentioned that 308 Winchester will take elk. I would certainly recommend 308 Winchester if at all possible due to lower recoil.

What do you recommend for elk?
 
7-08 was being pushed a few years back as a great all around rifle that was elk capable but not overkill for whitetail. If 7-08 will do it well enough to be the magazine and tv rage then the .308 is certainly capable. .308 is doing everything (within reason) a 30-06 does anyways now with the exception of extreme range where 30-06 carries a bit better as distances pass a half mile. I can’t imagine actually taking a shot at an animal at that distance.
 
From your post, I'm going to assume that he is not a super experienced marksman with a rifle.

Because of that, I would very much dissuade him from a 300 win and steer him towards 30-06, 308 and the like, mostly due to recoil and price of ammo to practice. Plus, cheaper rifle and more selection, generally.


And what do you mean by long shots, if later you say 200-400 yards? That's not very long for 308 or 30-06 to need to go to Magnum. I will also say, I'm not a huge fan of the Magnum rounds, as even bench-rested, without handloads, they seem to be much more picky for accuracy with factory loads (anecdotal). If this friend is inexperienced, I doubt he's going to tailor custom loads.

As far as "power" goes, 7mm-08 and 6.5 Creedmoor are more in vogue than ever before, proving you don't need a 375 h&h for elk.

Of those you listed, 100% 30-06 or 308.

As others will probably say, shot placement, ability to stalk up mountains with a light rifle, bullet construction, and hunting skill will be the defining factor.

Skip the Magnum.
 
A 308 properly loaded is a 400 yard elk gun. The 30-06 and 300 WM shoot the same bullets a little faster. At 400 or less no animal will ever notice the difference. The 30-06 will do the same thing at about 500 yards and the 300 WM at about 600 yards. How far can he shoot accurately enough to hit?

Of course the same thing can be said of any of the 6.5's, 7-08, 270, 280, 7mm RM, or at least dozen others. I'd choose the one I liked best and spend more time picking the bullet than the cartridge.
 
I'm a 30-06 guy but the .308 will work fine. I personally would not pick a 300 win mag it may shoot a little bit further than the 30-06 but lets get real, neither gun is deadlier than the other and nowadays many new hunters have become so wimpified that a rifle that weighs 8 pounds is to heavy so they drop weight by cutting the barrel shorter and if you do not have at least a 24" barrel on a 300 win mag you are basically shooting a 30-06 because it did not use all the powder on the shorter barrel. Though the 300 mag is an extremely accurate rifle at extended long ranges. I simply refuse to walk that long of a distance for my deer or elk. At my age I prefer deer caught in my grill guard and elk close to my truck. Ain't hitting no elk with my truck though, those suckers are big.
 
A 308 properly loaded is a 400 yard elk gun. The 30-06 and 300 WM shoot the same bullets a little faster. At 400 or less no animal will ever notice the difference. The 30-06 will do the same thing at about 500 yards and the 300 WM at about 600 yards. How far can he shoot accurately enough to hit?

Of course the same thing can be said of any of the 6.5's, 7-08, 270, 280, 7mm RM, or at least dozen others. I'd choose the one I liked best and spend more time picking the bullet than the cartridge.

A .308 will kill an elk at 500,600 even 800 yards if you do your part. As will any of the other rounds mentioned. The limitation is mainly in the shooters ability.
 
And with said limitations (just learning and all) not stepping the dude up to face kicking magnum status just makes his part easier.
AR-10, smooth transition from practice gun to elk gun.
 
Every single elk I have taken has fallen to the 30-06 with old school 180s. I am not very familiar with the 300 Win Mag; having fired one several times, I decided I had no desire to do so again. The 30-06 is good for 300 yards max point blank. I don't think there are many folk capable of ethical shots beyond that. If I wanted flatter trajectory without retinal detachment, I would be much more interested in the 7mm Mag than the 300, given modern bullets.
 
All my elk harvests have come from my trusty 30-06 with 180 grain Nosler Partitions. If he’s not a Reloader, the 300 may have a slight edge on longer range shots with factory ammo, but not much. In the end either the 06 or the 300 Win Mag will serve him well with the right bullet.
 
A friend of mine wants to buy a hunting rifle to hunt elk. He's leaning toward 30-06 Springfield. I'm leaning toward 300 Win Mag if he can handle it since many shots will be long. But, 300 WM will be tough to learn, not to mention expensive. He'll still have to train at 100 yard increments to get to know the gun. He'll use his AR-15 to learn the basics of rifle shooting and "long" range shooting out to 200-400 yards.

Someone I know mentioned that 308 Winchester will take elk. I would certainly recommend 308 Winchester if at all possible due to lower recoil.

What do you recommend for elk?
6.5 prc/6.5x284 Norma, .280/.280ai, 7-08/6.5creed/.308........new hunter= less recoil, still good shock and awe on impact, anything here will do it, @daniel craig isn't wrong about the .243 either BUT it may not be legal where you hunt (.25 minimum here).
 
Range dependent for me

358 Winchester in timber out to 200y because it’s light and easy to carry in a Browning BLR.

7mm Rem Mag in open out to 600y because that’s how far I practice with 175 Sierra Game Kings and 175 Hornady ELD-x’s. Both bullets in my loaded rounds fly to the same point of impact from the muzzle to 600y.

If I were shopping today, it might not be the 358 or 7mm, but from an elk hunting perspective both are tough to beat.
 
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I try to not pay too much attention to these “what big game cartridge or rifle?” threads because posters make far too many what I know are excellent suggestions. I really don’t want to read that I already have a few excellent elk rifles (308 Win, 30-06, 308 Norma, 338 Win Mag) when I’m trying to tell myself I “need” a 35 Whelen or 375 H&H.;)
Seriously, if I was buying my first elk rifle, and factory ammo was my only option, I'd probably go with the good ol' 30-06 Springfield. And practice! Elk aren't bullet-proof, but you need to hit them in the right place regardless of whether you're shooting a 308 Winchester or a 308 Norma Magnum.
 
I try to not pay too much attention to these “what big game cartridge or rifle?” threads because posters make far too many what I know are excellent suggestions. I really don’t want to read that I already have a few excellent elk rifles (308 Win, 30-06, 308 Norma, 338 Win Mag) when I’m trying to tell myself I “need” a 35 Whelen or 375 H&H.;)
Seriously, if I was buying my first elk rifle, and factory ammo was my only option, I'd probably go with the good ol' 30-06 Springfield. And practice! Elk aren't bullet-proof, but you need to hit them in the right place regardless of whether you're shooting a 308 Winchester or a 308 Norma Magnum.

It's more important to choose the right bullet, than the right cartridge.

A bonded or monolithic 100gr 243 would do better than a 125gr varmint 30-06.
 
A .308 will kill an elk at 500,600 even 800 yards if you do your part. As will any of the other rounds mentioned. The limitation is mainly in the shooters ability.

In that ^^ post I am in no way advocating shooting an elk at 800 yards with anything. I am merely stating that arbitrary functional kill distances for a given caliber are pretty much false. People form opinions on the “max” range for a given caliber using rumor and conjecture AKA gun writers, hunting magazines and campfire talk.

It really depends on the equipment (optics, bullet/load, accuracy, and ability of the shooter) much more than the chosen caliber. It also drastically depends on your style of hunting and the local conditions.

If you are primarily hunting in open country something with some reach and optics on it is your better choice. If you are hunting in tight dark timber something else might be a better choice.

I tend to hunt in both types of terrain and it’s why I like a .338 or a .375H&H with a good controlled expansion bullet and a low power variable scope. It covers those quick snap shots at less than optimum shot angles in the thick stuff and it gives you some reach in the open as well.

That being said I killed my last bull about a month ago with a .308 shooting 165 Gr Nosler Accubonds at 524 yards. That bullet exited and put him straight down. Would a 7MM or a .300 or even a hot rod .338 have done any better? Not in this circumstance, no. Dead is dead, full penetration with expansion is full penetration.

We are blessed with excellent bullets, accurate and dependable rifles and unbelievably repeatable and precise optics now days. If you utilize and train with the technology available now days you can pull off shots that would have been unthinkable not that long ago and with calibers that you wouldn’t consider adequate even a decade ago.

BTW I am not recommending going out and buying a .338 or a .375. I’m just telling you what I’ve been using for years with good success for my style of hunting.

A hunter should know their limitations and not take shots that are beyond their training ability. If you’ve never shot anything at 400+ yards in your life. Doing so on a snowy, windy day at a living animal in the field is a really bad idea. Caliber, scope, bullet will not make up for a lack of in the field shooting, practice and knowledge. If you’re having to guess at hold over at range on a calm day off a perfect rest, you’re pissing in the wind, don’t take that shot.

I can bang a 10” steel plate at 600 yards all day long from improvised field positions and rests. Until you add some gusty and variable winds, then it gets a lot more dicey. But you’ve got to put in the trigger time to know that.
 
But you’ve got to put in the trigger time to know that.

This is quite true. Not too many shooters have the luxury of time or finances to put in trigger time, due to work or other obligations. So when they shoot their rifles even if it is not during hunting season, a large majority only shoot from the bench. When they go hunting and an opportunity to shoot their prey shows itself, many shots are missed and many more hit the animal but wounds it, requiring additional shots, or even worse tracking a wounded animal. This happens because there is no bench and that is the only shooting they have done, from a bench.

I am fortunate that I have the luxury of time to spend at the range at least twice a week, one day for guns and another for rifles. When I shoot my rifles I'll shoot sitting on the bench and than I shoot sitting on the ground crossed legged and also shoot kneeling and my last practice is free hand shooting. This is done at 200 yards using a 22lr rifle.

Practicing with a 22lr allows for all the basics of rifle shooting skills to remain sharp without breaking the bank. At 200 yards the 22lr will be affected my a small breeze so much that this makes for a great tool to learn on how to read the wind.

For me doing this all year long gives me the confidence and skill to effectively and ethically make a clean kill on an animal from a sitting, kneeling, or unsupported position.

Just because I can make very very long shots does not mean that I do. The sport of hunting for me is the stalking and getting close. Anyway, when it comes to wind, the one factor that makes us all miss at long distances, whatever the wind speed is and direction it is where you happen to be, is not the same several hundred yards away where your prey is. Many novice hunters and shooters just don't get that.
 
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A friend of mine wants to buy a hunting rifle to hunt elk. He's leaning toward 30-06 Springfield. I'm leaning toward 300 Win Mag if he can handle it since many shots will be long. But, 300 WM will be tough to learn, not to mention expensive. He'll still have to train at 100 yard increments to get to know the gun. He'll use his AR-15 to learn the basics of rifle shooting and "long" range shooting out to 200-400 yards.

Someone I know mentioned that 308 Winchester will take elk. I would certainly recommend 308 Winchester if at all possible due to lower recoil.

What do you recommend for elk?






GR
 
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