ARTJR338WM
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2008
- Messages
- 27
Considering all of the awesome improvements in personal defensive ammunition over the last 5-7 years I was wondering if anyone has any irrefutable evidence preferably based on autopcys of criminals, that the 9mm Parabellum is on a even parr in all aspects with other larger calibers such as the .40s&w or the legendary .45acp?
I do not want and with all due repect, demand this not degrade into a ford vs chevy, 9mm vs 45acp type pissing match in any aspect what so ever. What I am asking for is facts based on cold hard real world evidence gained from use of ammunition in compleatly impartial performance tests or as previously stated, actual perfromance of 9mm defencive ammunition on people gained from coriners reports. That is if anyone has ever taken the time to correlate such information from coroners reports.
About ten years ago I read a story in one of the major gun mags, most likely Guns Magizine, but I am not sure, that listed the results of all the autopcies performed by Detroit Cities coroner in that the death of the person was caused by a gun shot wound. If I recall correctly the handgun caliber that recorded the highest number of incapcitation of a person by a single shot was the .357 magnum. If also I recall correctly, the same results showed that the 45acp and the 9mm parabellum were basicly equal in their instances of one shot incapacitation of a person. I know I am leaving out a whole library full of important info, but thats all i can recall with at least 90% certainty of accuracy.
I do not think information SPACIFICLY about the performance of the 9mm Parabellum that is based on results from the battle field are aplicable here as by international law our soldiers must use FMJ ammo and the 9mm has a well established record of poor performance in HGs with FMJ ammo and even today alot of complaints to this effect are comming out of Iraq and Afganistan about 9mm FMJ effectiveness. the same can not be daid of the 45acp when loaded with 230grn fmj ammo.
The most compelling evidence I can recount is my uncle who was in the USMC in the pacific during WW-II saying that the 45acp at close range knocked down and disposed of enemy soldiers better than his .30 caliber carabine did and he subsiquintly perfered, if left with no other choice except btwn the two the and his survival was on the line, he would take the 1911/45acp as he was a good shot with it. As a side note, as soon as he could he "upgreaded" to the M1 Garrand because in his words, the M1 Garrand 99% of the time would solve all of the problems it was designed to in only one shot.
Just the facts please, leave personal prejudice out of this.
I do not want and with all due repect, demand this not degrade into a ford vs chevy, 9mm vs 45acp type pissing match in any aspect what so ever. What I am asking for is facts based on cold hard real world evidence gained from use of ammunition in compleatly impartial performance tests or as previously stated, actual perfromance of 9mm defencive ammunition on people gained from coriners reports. That is if anyone has ever taken the time to correlate such information from coroners reports.
About ten years ago I read a story in one of the major gun mags, most likely Guns Magizine, but I am not sure, that listed the results of all the autopcies performed by Detroit Cities coroner in that the death of the person was caused by a gun shot wound. If I recall correctly the handgun caliber that recorded the highest number of incapcitation of a person by a single shot was the .357 magnum. If also I recall correctly, the same results showed that the 45acp and the 9mm parabellum were basicly equal in their instances of one shot incapacitation of a person. I know I am leaving out a whole library full of important info, but thats all i can recall with at least 90% certainty of accuracy.
I do not think information SPACIFICLY about the performance of the 9mm Parabellum that is based on results from the battle field are aplicable here as by international law our soldiers must use FMJ ammo and the 9mm has a well established record of poor performance in HGs with FMJ ammo and even today alot of complaints to this effect are comming out of Iraq and Afganistan about 9mm FMJ effectiveness. the same can not be daid of the 45acp when loaded with 230grn fmj ammo.
The most compelling evidence I can recount is my uncle who was in the USMC in the pacific during WW-II saying that the 45acp at close range knocked down and disposed of enemy soldiers better than his .30 caliber carabine did and he subsiquintly perfered, if left with no other choice except btwn the two the and his survival was on the line, he would take the 1911/45acp as he was a good shot with it. As a side note, as soon as he could he "upgreaded" to the M1 Garrand because in his words, the M1 Garrand 99% of the time would solve all of the problems it was designed to in only one shot.
Just the facts please, leave personal prejudice out of this.