The "feathered" ball in a smoothbore

[.38 Special]

This month's Muzzle Blasts had an interesting article on blackpowder shooting in indoor ranges. Among other things, the author detailed the use of "feathered" balls in smoothbore guns. These are round balls which have been rolled between a pair of rasps, resulting in a roughened surface which, without a patch, can be loaded easily but still grips the walls of the bore. The author claimed quite acceptable accuracy.

Has anyone here tried this?

 

[troy fairweather]

Call them chewed balls, seems it works in some guns and not others.

 

[arcticap]

This month's Muzzle Blasts had an interesting article on blackpowder shooting in indoor ranges. Among other things, the author detailed the use of "feathered" balls in smoothbore guns. These are round balls which have been rolled between a pair of rasps, resulting in a roughened surface which, without a patch, can be loaded easily but still grips the walls of the bore. The author claimed quite acceptable accuracy.

Has anyone here tried this?

Someone had invented an motorized ball rasping device, but I can't find the posts about it.
It had a rotating rasping plate or two that spun the ball around which imparted the feathering in about 2 seconds.
The device wasn't very expensive.
Perhaps someone else remembers the name of the device.
The inventor made a video showing how it worked, and it had a catchy name.
Shooting rasped balls is popular among some N-SSA shooters who end up needing to rasp a lot of balls which was why he invented it.

 

[SlowFuse]

Don't have a smoothbore to say if it makes a difference, but have read into it a bit.

Not the same device mentioned above, but an N-SSA member wrote a how-to on one he put together if you are interested in making your own.

http://4thla.weebly.com/ball-rolling-fixture.html

 

[troy fairweather]

Vortex ball roller,

 

[SlowFuse]

Vortex ball roller,

Interesting, same guy.

 

[troy fairweather]

Interesting, same guy.

I remember Mike belivebu did a video about it.

 

[arcticap]

Vortex ball roller,

Thank you.

He shows the machine being used after the 6:00 mark.


And after the 4:30 mark below:

 

[.38 Special]

Just when you think you know everything about guns, you discover yet another whole world!

 

[.38 Special]

So has anyone tried them? I have heard a lot of folks claiming exceptional accuracy from patched round balls, but never have been able to duplicate their efforts. I would very much like to get the four-to-eight MOA accuracy claimed to be possible from a smoothbore...

 

[armoredman]

I had never heard of that before...if someone had mentioned "chewed balls" to me before this is NOT what would have popped up in the brain.

 

[arcticap]

I had never heard of that before...if someone had mentioned "chewed balls" to me before this is NOT what would have popped up in the brain.

Rasping the balls fractionally increases their diameter by displacing some of the lead into raised bumps.
That way they can sometimes be rapidly loaded without using any patch at all.
And who knows, the dimpling may also increase accuracy.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Rasping the balls fractionally increases their diameter by displacing some of the lead into raised bumps.
That way they can sometimes be rapidly fired without using any patch at all.
And who knows, the dimpling may also increase accuracy.

Yes, the KEY is the round ball must be very close to bore diameter, and the rasping then as Articap wrote, raises points on the ball that then touch the inside walls of the barrel, and thus the ball is held in a uniform position within the barrel when fired each time. Some folks think the dimples act like a golf ball, but a) this was discovered by using a method that doesn't give you uniform dimples as on a golf ball, and b) golf balls get a spin, albeit different from a bullet but a spin, and the round balls that are "distressed" do not.

LD

 

[dennis g]

Here's an Alox coated .680 ball sitting atop a.692 bore. No patches are allowed in NSSA competitions.

 

[Catman42]

one of the reason they shoot better is the same reason golf balls are dimpled. they cut through the air better than a smooth round ball. i suspect a rasped round ball may work very well in a rifled barrel also. myth busters did a show on smooth verses dimpled which rasping does also. the ruff surface cut the air much better than the smooth surface. the front of a dragonflys wing is ruff just like a ruffed up round ball. they are able to fly better because of that. im glad this post was put on this site as it is very very good information to share will every one here. the science is behind this post 100 percent.

 

[Patocazador]

I've never seen the advantage in accuracy in using a rasped ball vs a tightly patched ball. However, numerous people, including me, have used rasps to roughen conicals that don't quite fit the bore. It results in better accuracy and helps keep the conical on the powder or wad rather than creeping up the barrel.

 

[Jim Bowie]

Looks kind of like how they used to knurl Pistons

 

[JeffG]

The main use for a chewed ball in my smoothbore, was to keep the ball from rolling back out of the barrel. For hunting, a patch is easier, and more familiar.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well my reply to the idea that rasping the surface of a lead sphere is the same, or causes the same effect as the dimples on a golf ball, and that such makes the ball more "accurate" is...,
NAW.
I'm sure myth busters means well, but....,

The dimples on a golf ball do not make the ball fly in a more accurate path. They reduce the drag on the ball, and allow the ball to fly farther. They are symmetric and are actual dimples (instead of the random pattern from a rasp on a lead ball), AND they are on a sphere that is spinning. The spinning is what makes the ball fly in a stable path, and when the spin is perpendicular to the trajectory, the ball as we see it flies "straight", and when that spin is off the trajectory line and gravity, then the ball flies in what we see is a curve.

There is no spin on a smooth bore ball. So all that dimples or a rough surface would do for a smooth bore ball is reduce the drop of the ball over distance as there would be less wind drag, so the ball would not slow down as much. So you would not string shots in a vertical pattern as often from the variations in your loads, but left to right deviation would not be prevented as it is with the spin on a rifle ball. Distressing the surface of the ball so a little force is needed to get the ball to fit into the barrel does two things...the ball is much more consistent than it would be with the random folding of a cloth patch, AND ... no incidental spin is imparted to the ball when fired. The ball cannot turn a bit as it moves down the barrel when it's fired, so no off center spin happens to the ball. This is especially important to a ball that still has a bit of sprue on its surface.

LD

 

[Catman42]

i want to thank patocazado and loyalist dave for their replys. both had meat and science behind their replys. learned a lot from the both of you. drag, not accuracy, my pea brain didnt ferret that out, thanks. as to bumping up bullets diam, with a rasp, ive done that to paperpatched bullets and it works very well. glad you shared that with every one out their. this side is about sharing and learning and that is good.

 

[arcticap]

Distressing the surface of the ball so a little force is needed to get the ball to fit into the barrel does two things...the ball is much more consistent than it would be with the random folding of a cloth patch, AND ... no incidental spin is imparted to the ball when fired. The ball cannot turn a bit as it moves down the barrel when it's fired, so no off center spin happens to the ball. This is especially important to a ball that still has a bit of sprue on its surface.
LD

I have no idea if spin is imparted on any ball fired from a smoothbore, or what kind of spin if there is.
But here are some different factors involved besides whether the ball is patched or not, or rasped or not.

One factor is that not all bores are unchoked, since some shotguns are choked which means bores are not all the same.

Another is gravity which I've wondered about the effect of gravity as the ball is traveling down the bore before exiting.
Whether that causes more friction on the bottom of the ball which could cause some spin or not.

Another factor may be called rotation of which an example is this.
Testing has showed that when a shotgun load is fired from a smoothbore, the wad begins to rotate as it exits the bore, possibly even before.
That rotation is imparted to the shot load to the point that it causes the pattern to open up.
The shot load can rotate a quarter turn or more in the distance traveled to the patterning board.
And that's why companies like Hastings make shotgun barrels with straight rifling, to stop the wad from rotating as it travels down the bore.
The straight rifling can help the pattern to stay tighter by something like 5% - 10%, basically an extra 5 yards of distance with full choke, all by trying to help prevent the rotation of the wad and shot load.
My point is that there's going to be rotation and/or spin, it's just how much and what the result is.
At some short distances and with some guns, the spin, patch and ball type may not matter, and with other guns and at other longer distances, the spin, patch and ball type may matter more.
I would surmise that smooth rifles shooting tight patched round balls are more accurate than shooting rasped unpatched balls from the same gun.
And a rasped unpatched ball may shoot more accurately than the same unpatched but smooth ball because it would fit looser.
I don't know if one would travel farther or not, but it's effective accuracy that usually matters.

It's just a fun discussion to think about.
I thought rasping balls was mostly about being able to load faster during competitions to be the first to shoot a wooden stake in half.

 

[Patocazador]

The shot load can rotate a quarter turn or more in the distance traveled to the patterning board.
And that's why companies like Hastings make shotgun barrels with straight rifling, to stop the wad from rotating as it travels down the bore.

Hmmm, I've never seen ads from Hastings that said the rifling was for shot loads ... only slugs. I have a Hastings barrel on one of my shotguns and it does work very well with slugs. I have never used a shotshell in that barrel. It might be worth a test to see if a shot pattern improves with it, though I doubt it.

 

[arcticap]

Hmmm, I've never seen ads from Hastings that said the rifling was for shot loads ... only slugs. I have a Hastings barrel on one of my shotguns and it does work very well with slugs. I have never used a shotshell in that barrel. It might be worth a test to see if a shot pattern improves with it, though I doubt it.

These are two entirely different types of rifled shotgun barrels.
I described STRAIGHT RIFLING that's made for shotshells and not for slugs.
You have a barrel with CONVENTIONAL TWIST RIFLING that's made for shooting slugs.
Hastings sells their straight rifled barrel under the name WADLOCK BARREL.

"The barrel has wadlock rifling. Unlike the traditional smoothbore barrel, each barrel is designed with six straight lands and .005" deep grooves that run the length of the bore. This prevents wad and shot charge from spinning, which in turn greatly reduces the number of flyer shots and stray pellets. You should see a 7-10% improvement in pattern density. The barrel uses screw in chokes with the Hastings CT II choke system." --->>> --->>> https://www.hastingsdistribution.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=144

Ruger also made a trap shotgun that had straight rifling that was based on their Red Label Model.
It's a feature that's often used for trap or competition but can also be used for hunting.

 

[Catman42]

wow, man am i learning, thanks

 

[Patocazador]

I described STRAIGHT RIFLING that's made for shotshells and not for slugs.

Thanks for the clarification.