The Great Debate: The Mentally Ill and Guns

[rainbowbob]

Here is 464a of the Michigan mental health code:

330.1464a Order of involuntary hospitalization, alternative treatment, or combination of
hospitalization and alternative treatment; entering or removing order from Law Enforcement Information Network.

Sec. 464a. (1) Upon entry of a court order directing that an individual be involuntarily hospitalized or that an individual involuntarily undergo a program of alternative treatment or a program of combined hospitalization and alternative treatment, the court shall immediately order the department of state police to enter the court order into the law enforcement information network. The department of state police shall remove the court order from the law enforcement information network only upon receipt of a subsequent court order for that removal.

(2) The department of state police shall immediately enter an order into the law enforcement information network or shall immediately remove an order from the law enforcement information network as ordered by the court under this section.

330.1465 Clear and convincing evidence required.Sec. 465. A judge or jury shall not find that an individual is a person requiring treatment unless that fact has been established by clear and convincing evidence.

 

[Thain]

rainbowbob, you are looking at the requirements for obtaining a purchase permit, not for a license to carry a concealed pistol.

The statute to which I refer is MCL 28.425b(7)(l) [lower case L there, not an I or 1), which states:

"The applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment for that illness."

The statutes may, as you have probably discovered, be readily downloaded from teh Michigan State Police website at

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10929--,00.html

Also available there is the applicaiton itself, which reflects the overborad language of the statute.

 

[rainbowbob]

rainbowbob, you are looking at the requirements for obtaining a purchase permit, not for a license to carry a concealed pistol.

Thain:
You're right...my mistake. the following is copied directly from the Michigan CPL Application.

The applicant does not have a diagnosed mental illness at the time the application is made regardless of whether he or she is receiving treatment.

I stand corrected - and shocked. That is far too broad. If I lived in Michigan, and particularly if I had ever been diagnosed with a mental illness, I would actively seek to have that restriction struck from the application requirements. I wonder if the local NAMI chapter, or NRA would be interested in helping?

I would be interested to learn how many other states have this kind of overly-broad and overly-restrictive wording in their CPL or CCW statutes and applications.

 

[.cheese.]

out of curiosity,

what is the difference between depression as a mental illness, and depression as a state of mind?

is there a difference?

Can you be depressed and not technically mentally ill if you see a doctor about it (I assume any time an anti-depressant is prescribed it falls into the broad category of "mentally ill")?

I ask because it seems as though unless you're happy 100% of the time, the moment you see a doctor about being sad, you fall into this trap states like Michigan have set up.

Just a thought, and a question.

 

[The Tourist]

what is the difference between depression as a mental illness, and depression as a state of mind?

Actually, that's a very enlightened question. Believe it or not, it's one I asked myself after I was diagnosed.

When I heard the word "depressed" or "depressive," I naturally thought it meant 'blue' or 'sad.' The problem was that many times I was a dervish with tons of energy, incredible focus--working and chasing women with the same abandon. In fact, the way I chased women was even a sign of the underlying problem.

But I was never "depressed," heck, like most bipolars I loved the rush.

In fact, I think the real reason they changed the name of the disorder from "manic-depressive" is that bipolar is simply a more clear assessment of the condition. It's a mood swing, not a moment to moment, singular definition.

I still am moved by sad movies, angered by idiots, thrust into work projects, but when the stimuli ends so does the response. If you get into an OCD mania or depressive spin you cannot escape.

Oh, BTW, don't believe all of the Hollywood movies about being insane. At the very depths of depression I can still field-strip and reassemble a 1911 faster than you can. There's a very good reason why one of the sufferers, a doctor herself, wrote a book entitled "Brains on Fire."

I just cry and want to take a nap while I'm doing it.