The Greatest Battle Rifle Ever Devised
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mgregg85
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Any votes yet for the daisy red rider?
Nah really I think I would have to pick the AK-47 for sheer numbers produced and the number of countries that use it. Its a tough, reliable, powerful and cheap weapon that is simple to clean and use.
Nah really I think I would have to pick the AK-47 for sheer numbers produced and the number of countries that use it. Its a tough, reliable, powerful and cheap weapon that is simple to clean and use.
jpwilly
Member
No offence but the M14 being used by the Navy to shoot mines is hardly MBR status. Don't get me wrong I like the M14 and it's daddy the M1 Garand plenty.
deerhunter61
Member
This survey is simply not realistic. This is the same as asking who the greatest baseball player of all time is...or who is the greatest Quarterback of all time is...the athletes of yesterday did not train year around nor did they get paid much realitive to todays athletes. The only way to compare is the greatest of eras.
Technology is such that as good as the M1 was during WWII it is not the best today so to say it is the best of all time is inaccurate at best. Why not group Battle rifles of different eras and pick the best of each era. Then perhaps you can compare them realitive to certain criteria using length of service, impact on the war which was fought at the time, impact on battle rifles that followed and present a top 5? Even this is not really going to mean much.
Technology is such that as good as the M1 was during WWII it is not the best today so to say it is the best of all time is inaccurate at best. Why not group Battle rifles of different eras and pick the best of each era. Then perhaps you can compare them realitive to certain criteria using length of service, impact on the war which was fought at the time, impact on battle rifles that followed and present a top 5? Even this is not really going to mean much.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
I always thought a "battle rifle" was a rifle that fired a full power cartridge, whereas select fire guns that fired an intermediate cartridge (M16, AK-47, etc) were "assault rifles".
I'd pick M-14. Hard hitting round, accurate, ability to go full auto although it's not exactly controllable as such.
P.S. my answer may be a little biased due to my immediate thoughts of George C. Scott playing General Patton and referring to the M1 Garand and the greatest battle implement ever devised and my thoughts of the M14 as the cooler younger brother of the M1 Garand
I'd pick M-14. Hard hitting round, accurate, ability to go full auto although it's not exactly controllable as such.
P.S. my answer may be a little biased due to my immediate thoughts of George C. Scott playing General Patton and referring to the M1 Garand and the greatest battle implement ever devised and my thoughts of the M14 as the cooler younger brother of the M1 Garand
Personally I like the M14. 7.62x51, steel, wood and detachable magazine are a potent combo. A close second would be the M1 Garand, the only big drawback I see with the M1 is the "ping! hey everyone I'm out of ammo!" flying clips. A tie for 3rd would be the M16 and AK47, both are classics in their own right.
Kind of Blued
Member
I can't name a "greatest" unless you're asking which one has the most acclaimed reputation, allowing for a sort of historical "greatness". I can name a "most influential", most "highly-acclaimed", or most "versatile", but comparing a 1903A3 to a M16 is pointless.
For 95% of all situations, I'd say AK-47 hands down. For the other five percent, give me a population, a conflict, a terrain, a climate, a supply chain condition, level of training, then tell me how the enemy is doing on every one of those elements, and I'll tell you which rifle to field. Hi ho.
For 95% of all situations, I'd say AK-47 hands down. For the other five percent, give me a population, a conflict, a terrain, a climate, a supply chain condition, level of training, then tell me how the enemy is doing on every one of those elements, and I'll tell you which rifle to field.
Hi ho.
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Retro
Member
In combat situations, the most effective mode of firing is semi-auto.
M14 or FAL.
FAL: Left arm of freedom, shoots .308, incredibly reliable, and durable.
M14: shoots .308, incredibly reliable, durable, and accurate.
others:
G3/CETME: very accurate, reliable, but NOT durable, once the delayed blow-back mechanism wears out, you need a new receiver.
To take to combat, I would bring a SA SOCOM 16 in USGI heavy contour walnut stock (equipped with ARMS #18 railmount), with 20 rd mag, with Aimpoint M68 Red-dot with ARMS quick-take-down mount (for factory scout rail), and with ACOG with ARMS quick take-down mount (for #18 rail). Aimpoint/ACOG can go on interchangeably, depending on the distance of engagement. This set-up is simple, reliable, powerful, and effective.
Retro
M14 or FAL.
FAL: Left arm of freedom, shoots .308, incredibly reliable, and durable.
M14: shoots .308, incredibly reliable, durable, and accurate.
others:
G3/CETME: very accurate, reliable, but NOT durable, once the delayed blow-back mechanism wears out, you need a new receiver.
To take to combat, I would bring a SA SOCOM 16 in USGI heavy contour walnut stock (equipped with ARMS #18 railmount), with 20 rd mag, with Aimpoint M68 Red-dot with ARMS quick-take-down mount (for factory scout rail), and with ACOG with ARMS quick take-down mount (for #18 rail). Aimpoint/ACOG can go on interchangeably, depending on the distance of engagement. This set-up is simple, reliable, powerful, and effective.
Retro
RonE
Member
You left out the Martini 577/.450 and the 45-70 Springfield Trapdoor. Both of which were technical marvels in their times.
black_powder_Rob
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most defiantly the m1 Garand
maddog1775
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The Garand wins hands down. No other rifle in history outclassed its peers the way the M1 did when it was put up against the bolt action rifles used by the Axis powers.
Golden Hound
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M14 more durable than the G3? That is one claim I've never heard before.
tribbles
Member
If things had developed like they SHOULD have, it would have been the FN-FAL in a .280 cartridge, but no, we pushed a shortened .30-06 round on NATO, then went with a mag-fed Garand derivative while the rest of the free world told us to get stuffed and went with the FAL instead.
woodybrighton
member
lee enfield 17 million made. 1895-not out of service yet 113 years
convinced the Germans in WW1 they were facing mass machine gun fire
served through ww2 1939-1945
Korea
Malaya
Falklands as a sniper rifle
still on issue with Canadian rangers and Indian police so longest serving military bolt issue rifle ever.
convinced the Germans in WW1 they were facing mass machine gun fire
served through ww2 1939-1945
Korea
Malaya
Falklands as a sniper rifle
still on issue with Canadian rangers and Indian police so longest serving military bolt issue rifle ever.
db_tanker
Member
I would have to pick two. And they are the two that opposed each other for a goodly portion of the late 20th.
AK
FAL
Nowhere in the world can you find two more prolific and reliable weapons. Two totally different schools of thought went into those firearms...and they were both right.
You compiled a helluva list...and many on there I wouldn't feel undergunned carrying...but I won't go into why I would not carry each and every other firearm...
but the two I listed...those would be the ones I would go pick up first.
MTCW
D
AK
FAL
Nowhere in the world can you find two more prolific and reliable weapons. Two totally different schools of thought went into those firearms...and they were both right.
You compiled a helluva list...and many on there I wouldn't feel undergunned carrying...but I won't go into why I would not carry each and every other firearm...
but the two I listed...those would be the ones I would go pick up first.
MTCW
D
Shawnee
member
Spencer.
highlander 5
Member
Garand,nuff said
Someone mentioned above that the M14 is only being used to defuse IEDs and mines in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tell that to SEI and Fulton who are making money hand over fist converting old shot out M14s into sub MOA DMR rifles for the army. There are a whole bunch of M14 DMRs and there would be many more if there were more M14s available and more armorers knew how to squeeze the accuracy out them (it is an expensive proposition). From what I've read the M14 is pretty sought after over there due to the accuracy and penetration power of the 7.62x51 nato round.
Harve Curry
Member
The Greatest Battle Rifle Ever Devised
The M1 Garand.
Because:
1). It was was the first semi-auto rifle to be issued to a army as a main battle rifle. M1 Garand set the standard for others to overcome.
2). With it in hand the United States were the main player in WWII that eliminated a pestulence that had killed people on two opposite parts of the world. It was truly used for good.
3). The M1's 30-06 cartridge is a true rifle cartrdge. Together they are accurate and lethal beyond any AK 7.62x39.
4). They worked and are still reliable.
The M1 Garand.
Because:
1). It was was the first semi-auto rifle to be issued to a army as a main battle rifle. M1 Garand set the standard for others to overcome.
2). With it in hand the United States were the main player in WWII that eliminated a pestulence that had killed people on two opposite parts of the world. It was truly used for good.
3). The M1's 30-06 cartridge is a true rifle cartrdge. Together they are accurate and lethal beyond any AK 7.62x39.
4). They worked and are still reliable.
Harve Curry
Member
If your survey was going further back you would have to include the Henry rifle of 1860 and the Spencer.
During a muzzleloading era the fixed ammunition of both weapons. Large magazine capacity of the Henry, but a low power cartridge. The 56-56 Spencer cartridges were hard hitters and accurate, capable of 3 MOA.
During a muzzleloading era the fixed ammunition of both weapons. Large magazine capacity of the Henry, but a low power cartridge. The 56-56 Spencer cartridges were hard hitters and accurate, capable of 3 MOA.
Interesting question and I have not really been surprised with the answers. Most is seems like either the AK or M1. Good choices, but their reasoning is often left out.
When you consider what a battle rifle has to go through to be acclaimed "best" they are all remarkable, with a couple of exceptions.
With that said, I would like to throw my idea into the quest for the best.
I think first of all you are trying to compare apples to oranges. By that I mean you are comparing bolt actions to semi and full auto's. I really think they should be separated. One answer did with the offering of the Brown Bess, and his thinking was good on the subject. I would have to say he is correct with the proviso that you only compare it to other front stufers. They could not begin to win a battle against even the worst of the rifles you have on you list.
As far as the bolt action rifles you have listed, it really comes down to just two. The Lee Enfield is one of the greatest and for sure was issued a long time to a lot of troops and decided many battles. If I may include all mauser 98's and not just the kar98, then it too requires a place right along side the Enfield. If we must consider only the kar98 then it drops in its value as a battle rifle. Those two are almost neck and neck, but I would place the mauser 98 a half a nose ahead of the Enfield, and would not argue with anyone who thinks they are reversed.
On the other hand the Mosin Nagant is not to be put out of the race either. It is a very superior firearm. To place then in a 1,2,3 order, I would put them Mauser 98, Lee Enfield, and Mosin Nagant. They are all three great firearms, and I would not want anyone using any of the three against me.
As for the semi-auto's that is much easier. First, if you consider which one can be dropped into a mud hole and fired, or into a pile of sand and fired with the fewest problems, then the AR has to be placed on the bottom of the list. The only thing the AR has going for it is its inherant accuracy. But others are capable of sub minute accuracy as well, but usually not right out of the box.
Now which one can endure that kind of punishment and still fire. For sure we again come down to just two. First I want to put all the M1 and variants such as the M1A and M14 into one family and say it is tops, with the M14 being the best of the three.
Next, no one can argue the AK (considering both the 47 and 74) and its variants has passed the test as well. It has been issued longer and to more soldiers than any of the semi autos listed. It is still being issued 60 years after its invention. (I believe only the 1911 was issued longer.)
So again to list 1,2 it would have to be the AK first and the M1 family second (with M14 being best of family). Again, I would not argue with anyone that would reverse the two, they are so close.
You have put together a great list, and I would like at least one of each.
And so the argument continues.
When you consider what a battle rifle has to go through to be acclaimed "best" they are all remarkable, with a couple of exceptions.
With that said, I would like to throw my idea into the quest for the best.
I think first of all you are trying to compare apples to oranges. By that I mean you are comparing bolt actions to semi and full auto's. I really think they should be separated. One answer did with the offering of the Brown Bess, and his thinking was good on the subject. I would have to say he is correct with the proviso that you only compare it to other front stufers. They could not begin to win a battle against even the worst of the rifles you have on you list.
As far as the bolt action rifles you have listed, it really comes down to just two. The Lee Enfield is one of the greatest and for sure was issued a long time to a lot of troops and decided many battles. If I may include all mauser 98's and not just the kar98, then it too requires a place right along side the Enfield. If we must consider only the kar98 then it drops in its value as a battle rifle. Those two are almost neck and neck, but I would place the mauser 98 a half a nose ahead of the Enfield, and would not argue with anyone who thinks they are reversed.
On the other hand the Mosin Nagant is not to be put out of the race either. It is a very superior firearm. To place then in a 1,2,3 order, I would put them Mauser 98, Lee Enfield, and Mosin Nagant. They are all three great firearms, and I would not want anyone using any of the three against me.
As for the semi-auto's that is much easier. First, if you consider which one can be dropped into a mud hole and fired, or into a pile of sand and fired with the fewest problems, then the AR has to be placed on the bottom of the list. The only thing the AR has going for it is its inherant accuracy. But others are capable of sub minute accuracy as well, but usually not right out of the box.
Now which one can endure that kind of punishment and still fire. For sure we again come down to just two. First I want to put all the M1 and variants such as the M1A and M14 into one family and say it is tops, with the M14 being the best of the three.
Next, no one can argue the AK (considering both the 47 and 74) and its variants has passed the test as well. It has been issued longer and to more soldiers than any of the semi autos listed. It is still being issued 60 years after its invention. (I believe only the 1911 was issued longer.)
So again to list 1,2 it would have to be the AK first and the M1 family second (with M14 being best of family). Again, I would not argue with anyone that would reverse the two, they are so close.
You have put together a great list, and I would like at least one of each.
And so the argument continues.
flyboy1788
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Mauser kar98k. Your welcome
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