The Honorable Burden We Bear : A Shooter's Duty

[silverlance]

The recent spate of heinious crimes in which firearms were misused have caused many to fear that this sport of ours is at an end. Indeed, as the musical chairs within the White House creak to a stop, we who would see the second amendment upheld are right to fear a corresponding cessation to our rights. These, then, are the burdens we must carry in this breaking age: a commitment to compart ourselves as honorable men and women, a drive to bring more shooters into the pack, and constant awareness of the political winds.

A Shooter's Duty

1. I will carry myself as an honorable individual, a veritable exemplar of honesty, gentility, and kindness as befits the critically reasoning individual that I am, so that others respect me and the culture that I bear.

2. I will always be ready to demonstrate to others the meaning of courage, fearing not to speak when lessen men might remain silent, even if it means that I may draw the baleful attention of the majority.

3. I will strive vigorously to teach others in the ways of firearms, demystifying the stultifying effects of Mainstream Media, and bringing more enlightened souls into our ranks.

4. I will care for my firearms, and regularly practice with them proudly, so that I will be competent in the hour of need.

5. I will be prepared to use my skills and knowledge to defend myself and others, even those who would seek the removal of my rights.

6. I will maintain relations with this our community of shooters, so that we are a unified body, and may respond en masse as a contigent of citizens to any threat.

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[pharmer]

When Florida started the CWP, there was an 8 hour mandatory course, 1/2 range 1/2 classroom. The instructor was a USMC vet of WWII, Korea and Vietnam. He said "when you strap on a gun you become your brother's keeper. 20 years later I can still hear his words. joe

 

[EHCRain10]

Amen!

 

[Treo]

Ummmm, No

I carry a gun for self ( key word being self) defense. I am NOT a cop ( I don't even play one on T.V.) I am NOT a "sheep dog" & I am NOT "The Brave One".

My goal is to stay under the radar as much as possible.
I wouldn't turn my back on a fellow human being, but my CHP does NOT make me some "Guardian " of the people.

ETA For all those " wolves in sheeples clothing" who are about to drag me over the coals please allow me to quote the letter I received with my CHP " This permit is being extended to you in order that you may defend YOURSELF and YOUR FAMILY . (emphasis mine)

 

[kingpin008]

I have to agree with Treo. When I get to a state that allows me to carry a concealed weapon, it will be for MY benefit first, no matter what. I'm not there to save the world, or to be a sheepdog (as Treo said). That doesn't mean that I'll go out of my way to be unkind or unhelpful, but I'm also not looking to save the world every time I strap on a gun.

 

[3rdpig]

I also agree with Treo. I don't carry a gun to protect others, I carry it to protect myself and my loved ones. If I'm killed, permanently incapacitated or imprisoned in my attempt to protect others will those others support my family when I can't? I'll call the cops, I'll warn an attacker away if it's safe to do so, but I won't draw my gun and shoot in the defense of anyone except myself or a loved one.

I know that sounds selfish, but think about it. The real selfish ones are those who shirk their responsibilities and lay the burden of defending themselves and their families on someone else.

I've had cops in training classes tell me the same thing, "Get out of harms way and call us asap". I plan on following that advice.

 

[Gord]

Personally, I'm not going to go out of my way to justify the pure-lily-whiteness of my character as a gun owner any more than I am as a driver, a knife owner or a baseball player.

If I wanted to be a jackass and kill people, I could probably do better taking my Dodge through a gas station parking lot a few times or clubbing old folks at a rest home than I could with a handgun and a couple magazines' worth of ammo. I drive a vehicle that will rev up to 85MPH without a problem and weighs two tons and change, and I do this in school zones with kids walking around, in hospital parking lots, and up and down residential streets. I have a four-inch pocketknife clipped to my person whenever I'm wearing pants, which includes walking around Walmart on busy Sunday afternoons, picking siblings and their friends up from school, and seeing plays and musicals in packed auditoriums.

I'm trusted to do all of this without a second thought, but as soon as it comes out that I'm a gun owner - whoa! Watch it, he might go postal on us at any moment!

Anyone who knows me knows that I'm a nice, laid-back guy who likes babies and puppies and classical music and poetry. If someone somewhere that I have never met wants to look down on me because I happen to enjoy shooting as a hobby and protecting myself with the most effective means available to me - fine. They can kiss my lily-white *ahem*. What do I care?

Battles against the .gov are won by numbers, not by nice clothes and clean shaves. Take the energy you'd be expending trying to present yourself as a flawless, saintly example of all that is Right and Good, and just use it to get more damn people to see common sense and vote accordingly. We're all normal, responsible Joes who happen to own guns - and you can get that point across more clearly by being yourself, human flaws and all.

As far as the "hour of need" stuff - I'm sure it's not what you were going for, but putting it that way does indeed make that line sound like the Mall Ninja's Solemn Oath of Sheepdoggery. Rewording would do well for clarification.

 

[camslam]

I have mentioned this before and this debate will rage for years to come, much as it has raged for years to this point.

The only point I care to make about those that will only use their CCW permit in the defense of themselves or their families is this: as long as you are ok with that position when you are not around your family and another CCW permit holder is in a position to defend them and doesn't do jack diddly squat to protect your family, and you are ok with their inaction, then so be it.

But if for even a moment you think, believe, or wish that someone in a position would come to your families aid in the event they were in that situation, I would hope you would rethink your position on whether or not you should come to anothers aid.

It isn't about being a policeman, rambo, a sheepdog, or anything else like that. To me it is a simple matter of decency and duty. If you are able to protect and defend those that can't defend themselves, you should, obviously depending on the circumstances.

Either way it is a tough call, let's all hope we never have to actually learn what we would do in that situation.

 

[Treo]

Quote :The only point I care to make about those that will only use their CCW permit in the defense of themselves or their families is this: as long as you are ok with that position when you are not around your family and another CCW permit holder is in a position to defend them and doesn't do jack diddly squat to protect your family, and you are ok with their inaction, then so be it.

If my wife is ever in that situation the CCW permit closer in the best position to help her would be........her

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The Honorable Burden We Bear : A Shooter's Duty

Wow, that sounds like something Gunscouts would have you memorize if such an organization existed. How would you earn merit badges?

Just what is it about being a gun owner would compel a person to comply?

Are there similar duties for knife owners, martial artists, etc?

I have to agree with treo - why should I have to guard people who haven't bothered to take an active interest in their own self defense, risking my own life in the process. If they aren't bothered with it, then I am not bothered by not saving them.

 

[Tommygunn]

I carry a gun for self ( key word being self) defense. I am NOT a cop ( I don't even play one on T.V.) I am NOT a "sheep dog" & I am NOT "The Brave One".

My goal is to stay under the radar as much as possible.
I wouldn't turn my back on a fellow human being, but my CHP does NOT make me some "Guardian " of the people.

ETA For all those " wolves in sheeples clothing" who are about to drag me over the coals please allow me to quote the letter I received with my CHP " This permit is being extended to you in order that you may defend YOURSELF and YOUR FAMILY . (emphasis mine)

While I agree with treo in concept, keep in mind one thing;
In a situation like the Dekalb shooting, defending yourself may be the same thing as defending everyone else there. If you run away from the actor, you present your back to him and that's just as vulnerable to a gunshot as anywhere else. You also won't know it's about to happen. If you react to defend yourself, you're automatically defending everyone else there by the nature of the event. Of course your goal is self-defense, but the result is the potential saving of any number of lives.
Of course, we are NOT police. For myself, I would never run toward the sound of gunfire. But if I'm in an enclosed space like a lecture hall, finding cover/concealment and returning fire may be my best bet as well as for others.
Situational awareness is paramount.

 

[Treo]

A Responsible , Law-Abiding Citizen

When I received my CHP the letter that accompanied it did invest me with some significant responsibilties & these I am willing to accept, to quote.

"This priveledge carries with it a significant responsibility that you as a responsible law-abiding citizen, exercise sound judgement , restraint and safety in the use and handling of firearms . Remember that the use of deadly force must always be a last resort."
If I can live up to that I'm doing fine

 

[camslam]

If my wife is ever in that situation the CCW permit closer in the best position to help her would be........her

Treo, that is great if your wife is prepared to engage should the situation call for it. Does everyone else you care about also have a CCW permit and are they ready to use it? I think you catch my drift here.

I'm not going to tell anybody what they should do in a situation involving a gun, but I stand by my previous statement; if you are not willing to come to someone else's aid, please don't expect them to come to your aid or the aid of someone you know and care about.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there that are not in a position to defend themselves when these events happen. I sincerely hope that myself, my family, or any other people are ever put in that position. However, I think we are all smart enough to know this stuff happens every single day in our country and world.

 

[Treo]

I've Been A Hero

Camslam,
Sorry dude I've played the hero game it got me nowhere. I've got a piece of paper hanging on the wall in the basement, I don't remember the exact wording but it says in short that I deliberately placed myself in danger & risked my life to save the lives of others & that my actions reflect great credit on myself, my unit , & the United States Army. Like I said I'm not a cop , I'm not a sheep dog & I don't ever want to be a hero again
When we ( as permit holders) start thinking that that piece of paper ( which isn't bullet proof BTW) invests us W/ some kind of police powers or duty to be the guardians of society ( I CRINGE everytime I hear the term "sheepdog") we are asking for trouble that we are (generally) not equiped to handel.
No My Yob
PS if my wife ever is in that situation I pray to God that she gets her ass behind some hard cover, keeps her head ( as well as keeps it down) & doesn't draw any attention to herself by engaging any target who isn't a DIRECT threat to her , sorry dude but when its all over I want my wife back not ( with all due respect) your wife telling me how bravely she died defending your (hypothetical I certainly don't wish you or yours harm) wife

 

[camslam]

Treo: I would agree with about 99% of what you said. As I have tried to explain, I hope none of us is ever in the situation where this discussion would be relevant.

I don't think it is being a hero, a sheepdog, a psuedo - policeman, etc... I simply feel a PERSONAL duty to try to help defend those that can't defend themselves. But as I have mentioned, I won't ever tell someone else they have to do the same thing I would do.

That being said, every situation is different, every situation requires previous preparation and thought, and every situation can have infinite outcomes. I guess the best we can do is prepare and hope we never need to use that preparation.

P.S. I think it is awesome that your wife has her CCW permit. Mine is planning on it, but sometime down the road. And I am with you, I hope she is smart enough to get down, watch the kids, handle any threat that comes her way, and help someone else if the situation allows, and in that order.

 

[silverlance]

My own personal opinions are reserved in my post. I want to know what you all think about it. I think the writer did not mean "defense of self and others" as "be a hero".

Personally, I'm not allowed a CCW, so its rather moot for me. I do however agree with the other tenets. As for defense... I don't know... I'd like to think that I'd try to do something about it if I were a CCWer at a mall or campus shooting.. but never having been there, I can't say.

 

[Treo]

Quote: Personally, I'm not allowed a CCW, so its rather moot for me

There was a song by Pink Floyd That adressed this perfectly it went something like "forward he cried from the rear & the front rank died"
BTW When you quote another author W/out citing the source it's plagarism

 

[Treo]

The Difference

QUOTE: I simply feel a PERSONAL duty to try to help defend those that can't defend themselves

Ok fine dude but you aren't defending those who CAN'T defend themselves you're defending those who CHOOSE NOT to defend themselves .
they don't care why should you?

 

[camslam]

Ok fine dude but you aren't defending those who CAN'T defend themselves you're defending those who CHOOSE NOT to defend themselves .
they don't care why should you?

Truthfully? Because up until 4 years ago when I got my CCW permit and took responsibility for my safety and the safety of my family, I didn't have the background or experience to where I had ever thought about having a CCW permit. It just never crossed my mind. It wasn't that I was stupid, it was more a matter of my size (big enough to handle most any physical confrontation), my ignorance as to the types of situations that could come my way, my education, living circumstances, and profession that didn't ever put me into a situation where I had even been threatened in the least.

But as we all learn, evolve, and progress, I figured out the need to be further prepared and took steps to get there. As I mentioned, I have no desire to ever be in this type of situation, I don't plan on being a hero, but at the same time I don't want to condemn someone for "CHOOSING" to not be prepared, when a few years ago, I was that same ignorant person that hadn't taken the steps to defend myself should a need arise where a gun would be useful.

I don't know if that makes much sense, but that is where I am coming from.

 

[silverlance]

BTW When you quote another author W/out citing the source it's plagarism

Only if you don't have permission to do exactly that.

they don't care why should you?

It's one thing to not throw yourself in the face of danger needlessly. However... if you were carrying that day at Omaha Mall, and you saw an opportunity to take the shooter down... you wouldn't have?

Posters harp often about how an armed society is a polite society; that murderers and villians would not be so likely to try their deeds if they knew that there would be resistance. And yet... when it might be tested - you'd say to yourself, "Not my problem"?

I respect your service, Treo, I really do. You've been up the hill, saw the elephant. I haven't. You have probably done far braver things under fire than I ever will - and I pray that it stays that way. But I can't agree with you here.

 

[GRB]

they don't care why should you?

Because of a moral responsibility to protect the innocent from evil doers, and with thebhope that someone else would do likewise for you, and because one has to live with him or her self after the fact. I choose to do what I beleive is right, and turning my back on an apparently innocent person who is being robbed, raped, assaulted, shot at, cut, or otherwise violently assaulted would be less than honorable, and certainly less than right under any code of morality that I have ever heard about. I am not talking about being brazen, about being a peckerwood, and charging into each and every conflict that you see; but rather doing something to help someone if you can. Wouldn't it be amazing if more people did that, if we stood by one another instead of cowering in a corner or running awy when evil men loose themselves upon our fellow citizens. It sickens me to think that so many of you are so selfish, or so scared, to say you would avoid the conflict that threatens the life of an innocent.

Golly it is sad to know I have neighbors the likes of you. That is you who are in my viewpoint just the same as those who choose not to be armed because of fear. You are the same as them not in that they fail to protect themselves, but like you they too would fail to protect me in such a time of need should I become the selected prey of a bad guy. Shame on you who live that way in fear of the risk of helping your fellow man; it just is not right.

Regards,
Glenn B

 

[Treo]

What I'd Do

However... if you were carrying that day at Omaha Mall, and you saw an opportunity to take the shooter down... you wouldn't have?

I thought I made that pretty clear in my first post, if I could kill the BG W/out needlessly endangering myself I would. What I WOULDNT do is try to get into a fire fight W/ some flippin maniac armed W/ an SKS when all I'm packing is a CZ75B & a spare mag. and I sure as HELL wouldn't try to hunt the guy down in a store like Vaugn Marr.
I'd get the wife behind some hard cover & I'd position myself to protect HER IF I emphasize that IF the shooter came our way I PROMISE you I'd die before he got to her. I would NOT leave my wife to go hunt the guy down. that's not my job

 

[wideym]

Whenever I hear "They won't protect themselves so why should I/you?" it makes my blood boil. How could you morally justify running away, hiding, or just standing by while a gunman is shooting at innocent people?

I have seen posts like this that say "I have a duty to my wife and kids." But what about when you are not with them, or you are not armed, or they are not armed?

What would you do if someone else stopped the attacker, say "You sure are a chump to put yourself in that kind of danger, come on kids lets go home."

 

[Treo]

Just Curious

I would like to ask the four of you who are so hot for me to put my ass on the line for your wife & kids; have any of you ever actually been in a firefight? if want to go after a lunatic who's armed W an assault rifle and WAAAAAAAAAY more rounds than you in on a battlefield HE picked W/ nothing but your ccw (pistol) be my guest I can tell you right now whose gonna win. I don't carry so I can be a hero I carry to protect my self & my family WHEN ALL OTHER MEANS AT MY DISPOSAL HAVE FAILED .

PS in case you're wondering if I have any chance at all to get my wife out of the store I'm taking it

 

[wideym]

treo: I also have one of those certificates (suitable for framing)that come with little pieces of ribbon and metal. I did not go to war with the intention of getting one but an event happened which earned it. Like most soldiers I fought to protect the guy on my left and right. Sometimes I couldn't stand the guy on my right and never meet the guy on my left. But put myself in a dangerous situation to save their lives. I did it for strangers then and I would do it for strangers now in civilian life. (Medically Retired from injuries)