The Most Valuable NFW Thread You May Read

[JShirley]

The question:

A lot of my handgun training right now is dryfire and unloaded manipulation. What sorts of home-grown training can I do for unarmed combat?

This is a GREAT question, because it focuses on software, not hardware. From my perspective, there are a limited number of manual weapon types. There are sticks, sharps, projectiles, and flexibles. Once you know how to use a basic type, it's fairly easy to use something similar.

There are specific things that can be done, but one of the best places to start is with an overall good level of fitness. Push-ups and crunches are good strength and endurance-building exercises, and some form of regular aerobic exercise is important, but the one part of fitness many of us overlook is flexibility. Stretching should be a regular part of your fitness routine. One exercise that may be especially useful is curling up a weight which is suspended from a small bar. You rotate your wrists, somewhat like revving a motorcycle, to raise the weight.

Sticks are a very common and useful non-firearm weapon. A good striking target is an old duffel bag, filled with rags and hung from a tree or post. Practice should involve striking and moving, because movement always happens in a fight.

If you carry a knife, you should frequently practice drawing it and executing a cut or slash.

I have to go for the moment, but I hope others will continue listing helpful training exercises and tips.

 

[Yo Mama]

That weight attached to a string is a killer. You don't need much weight at all to make it work.

 

[bikerdoc]

This is going to be a great thread.

I do practice with stick, knife, gun. I take instruction and train FOF with a formal and informal group.
Here is the thing, at 63 with some limitations, my training and the geezer group I train with recentlly realized fitness was paramont. So we got a new focus added to our training. Try curling a 40 lb grand kid hanging onto your cane
Another recent thought was we can train among ourselves all we want but we needed younger opponents to train with. Kinda comical to see a 23 y/o 240 lb guy take some whacks with dollar store pool noodle filled with rolled up newspaper in the core and wrapped in duct tape.

 

[MillCreek]

I have recently taken up (at age 52) suspension training, using a Jungle Gym XT that I bought off Amazon. I have to say that the improvement in flexibility and core strength have been pleasantly surprising. It has brought improvement in those areas that bicycling and the Concept rower did not.

 

[hso]

I'm a proponent of training like you might need to fight and using that as exercise. To make that more effective a practice dummy is valuable. Unfortunately you can spend a lot of money buying one. Fortunately you can build your own and use practice and live weapons on the one you build with proper sacrificial surfaces added on.

Tire practice dummies are popular along with post dummies for DIYers.

Post dummies can be made using any post or telephone pole or even a tree on your property by wrapping the post in layers of old carpet. You can add projecting limbs by tying them in place. Just remember to lash them solidly to make them last and provide resistance. Old carpet can be had from most any independent carpet shop. If you're willing to go to the job site and haul it off or them they are usually happy to give you all you'll take.

A tire dummy is a little harder to build these days with tire recycling, but you can find tires in many places still. Tires can be put over a post or can be connected together in various ways to make a more realistic dummy than just a stack of tires. Wood or PVC can be used to make projecting arms or legs or you can keep it simple and just build a column of tires.

The object of building any of these or using a bag is to give you something to actively strike/cut/thrust against at speed with force without spending $750 on a martial arts mook jong practice dummy. Actively striking/cutting at the dummy is great exercise and will show you the weaknesses that you need to concentrate on strengthening. Even if you're out of shape or have old injuries that limit your abilities such practice will strengthen your use of weapons and techniques and strengthen your resolve and confidence in your ability to defend yourself.

Me, I'm 54 and out of shape and have had a few surgeries to repair injuries (or the cumulative effects of several) and don't have the benefit of youth any longer, but the time I spend in practice keeps skills refreshed that I hope to never have to use in the real world and it keeps me capable of using those skills.

 

[JShirley]

Something else that's great for a variety of reasons, is a medicine ball. The problem with traditional weight training is when power is built without speed or flexibility- you're gaining strength in one area, but you're still weak in others. I like using medicine balls for exercises that strengthen your core, abs, arms and chest. Throwing the medicine ball upward and catching it builds strength that's useful for strikes, as well as just general conditioning.

 

[JVoutilainen]

one of the best places to start is with an overall good level of fitness

And to get fit most people these days need to re-evaluate their diet.

Quit sugar altogether, and lower the level of carbohydrates in your nutrition. That is good place to start. Also, many scandinavians or people of scandinavian descent are actually "allergic" to wheat. To be more precise, our bodies can handle wheat poorly and it can cause many health problems, even serious ones.

One training tip. Instead of beating on a stationary target, why not become the punching bag yourself? That way you can "acclimatise" yourself agains the shock of getting hit. Most people have never been struck, and react with absolute confusion. You don't want to be confused when you have to protect yourself. So, get some gloves, and ask your friend or wife (or both) to give you a good thrashing (but not full force, of course). Just take the punches and concentrate on defending yourself and reading the opponents movements. It is also good to practice the same thing when you are down on the ground and your opponent is on top of you. This is actually a pretty intimidating drill, even though you know it is not for real.

Second tip. Learn to avoid the temptation to back off when someone tries to hit you. Stand your ground, or move forward. You don't have eyes in the back of your head.

 

[hso]

That's the next step in practice. To go from forms to light sparing, from light sparring to heavy sparring, from sparring to free sparring. I've been amused to see young tough guys in classes I've taken not be able to take a hit and continue without confusion and dropping their guard (leading to more hits). While you don't have to get beaten up, it is critical to have some contact so you know what it feels like and so you know you can continue to be effective in defending yourself.

 

[JVoutilainen]

hso,

I think it should be a priority in training.

Why do boxers become such difficult opponents even after a relative short training period? Because their training prepares them for actually getting punched, and demystifies injuries. That means you can break the nose of a boxer, and he will probably still be up and fighting.

 

[blarby]

One useful tool in my box for self training is the joint tester.

To anyone who has hanging SD dummies, straight yet usable arm/shoulder/hand joints can be fashioned by drilling out 1 inch dowels to accept toothbrushes ( the dollar store variety seems to work best) in stacks of two for upper joints, one for wrists.

Simply attach two dowels together with the brushes, and within a few pounds of force you have what is necessary to manipulate (sever) the real deal ( minus the muscle). We used this multiple times in the studio to teach smaller stature persons that they can have positive effect on joints, even if they cant overpower someone twice their size with a punch or kick.

Toothbrushes are either much easier, or strangely much harder to break than you would imagine....just like the real thing


I know this is of limited usefulness with guns or knives, but that good ole standby of "hands on" SD training needs everything it can get to stay relevant and useful !

 

[zhyla]

Second tip. Learn to avoid the temptation to back off when someone tries to hit you. Stand your ground, or move forward.

No offense, but this sounds like a good way to get killed. The hit that never lands is the hit that doesn't take you down. Sure, if you can dodge an attack by stepping in and attacking, that's perfect. But otherwise you're just asking to die.

I mean, we're not talking about a bar fight where we all wake up hungover and friends again, right?

A retired marine buddy of mine has no feeling in much of his left hand. There is a large scar on his palm. His explanation, which he delivers with the same tone you would state that you made a minor mistake on the job, is that he stepped back when he should have side-stepped and ended up with a bayonet stuck thru his hand.

Why do boxers become such difficult opponents even after a relative short training period? Because their training prepares them for actually getting punched, and demystifies injuries. That means you can break the nose of a boxer, and he will probably still be up and fighting.

Irrelevant. Boxing is not a "fight" in this context since nobody is trying to kill you. Yes, absolutely, if you want to win a boxing match you're going to have to take some hits. I don't want to get in a boxing match. I want to kill the guy in front of me who wants to kill me first.

 

[JVoutilainen]

zhyla,

No offense, but this sounds like a good way to get killed.

None taken.

This is a bit silly. Did I say you should stand and take a beating. Yes I did, but only when it is an exercise. But, whatever.

I mean, we're not talking about a bar fight where we all wake up hungover and friends again, right?

What I said is based on a ten year career in security, being a bouncer, PI... my previous life. Glad that is over.

And yes, I have been to some drunken brawls, as well. Even have a badly fractured knuckle to remind me of some of the less than glorious points in my history.

Irrelevant.

I assure you, it is not irrelevant. Go find a boxer and enter the ring with him. Then, after you have recovered, tell me that his skills would be irrelevant if someone wanted to take his life.

Edit: Thought I would mention one more thing. Because of my profession many people said they "wanted to kill" me. For some reason no one ever died. That was the aim - that I would live, and so would the "customer". Moreover, we actually took pride every time we solved a difficult situation without anyone getting hurt.

 

[OH_Spartan]

I love this thread. Can anyone post a pic of a home-made battle dummy? I am having trouble visualizing how to build the different types discussed in previous threads.

One thing about whether to advance or retreat...I would go to situational awareness. In any SD situation, the key is to preserve your life. Retreating may mean your kick is longer than the reach of his knife, or it could also mean you are closer to the brick wall behind you. On the other hand, there are some simple and effective ways to disable someone with a knife, especially if they are not skilled with its use. In these cases, advancing may mean you have his knife and he has a broken arm. or it may mean you have a knife lodged in your arm, chest, etc.

You have to train and plan for both.

 

[hso]

That means you can break the nose of a boxer, and he will probably still be up and fighting.

Jon,

I've not trained as a boxer and had my nose broken a couple of times without being stopped. I attribute that to my eastern martial arts training and to sparring at all levels. I've been attracted on the street and come out with no or minimal injury, even having been attacked with a screw driver in one case.

My experience has taught me that you don't have to beat the crap out of each other in training to be effective and to persevere and win in spite of pain. Consistent increases in contact, speed and force in sparring while maintaining a focus on safety gives great results. Heck, I keep telling junior training partners, "It's ok, really, you can hit me. You won't hurt me, I won't let you, and if you...good for you."

 

[wheelgunslinger]

I like to tell people to be careful who they allow to train them.
Just because a person was in the military, or even in a combat zone, doesn't mean they know squat about self defense and, more importantly, can relate it to you. Likewise for guys who can scrape together enough money to start a dojo, and line the windows with their trophies.

There are bad English teachers. There are bad fitness trainers. There are bad defensive skills instructors.
Learning to sniff out a bad one doesn't take much more skill than sniffing out a shifty car dealer.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

Something else that's great for a variety of reasons, is a medicine ball.

A very good tool to mention for physical training, to be sure.
As in self defense scenarios, people fall back to their level of training when they want to "get back in shape." That usually means the same workouts they did in high school.
There's a lot of good new and groundbreaking information out there with lots of research and biomechanics behind it that points to overall fitness methodologies as superior for aging as well as for overall strength and stamina.
Medicine ball is a great tool we've rediscovered and popularized. A very good suggestion for people who want to use better tools for a better overall condition while avoiding the pitfalls of older strength training that is largely 2 dimensional.

 

[Steel Talon]

I'm not sure if this is what your asking for? But FWIW...

Training with a partner gives you immediate feedback. Using a correctly built makiwara board to punch will give you instant feedback at contact. Exercises' designed to strengthen your core are critical to unarmed combat.. So is good flexibility.

Targeting (focus striking) moving targets (weak and strong side) accurately are key also. Stretch a taught bungee cord roof to floor slide tennis ball onto bungee before securing. Start striking the ball

Lots and lots of things you can do on your own. Just keep this in mind. There are 3 primary targets of the human body attack and remove one or a combination of the three and the fight is over.

*Ability to see
*Ability to breath
*Ability to stand

 

[Owen Sparks]

Beyond just the physical ability your accuracy must be constiantly honed. Much of my practice involves picking single leaves off the bushes with my stick and targeted stabs with my knife. In fact I will start a thread on knife accuracy.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Any time you are on a hard floor or paved surface there is a deadly weapon right under your feet. This is why you should never let someone put their hands on you in malace, one good punch and they can bounce your skull off it!

 

[Owen Sparks]

Steel Tallon said:

Lots and lots of things you can do on your own. Just keep this in mind. There are 3 primary targets of the human body attack and remove one or a combination of the three and the fight is over.

*Ability to see
*Ability to breath
*Ability to stand

In Tansu we add two more:

The ability to use the hands

and

The ability to think and process information.

The hands and lower arms are primary targets when you have a stick or cane. Put them out of commission and the fight is over. The other prime target is the brain. Land a solid knockout blow and you will have a rag doll on your hands.

I will disagree on one point, the ability to see. Sure a traumatic injury to the eyes will take the fight out of most people but once a good wrestler gets his hands on you he does not need to see. Case in point, I was on the wrestling team in high school and our toughest opponent was always the state school for the blind. My Junior year they beat us in every weight class except one. Gouging someone in the eyes may not end a fight if they already have their hands on you. Some people who are insane, doped up or in a rage can become temporarily immune to pain. I have seen it.

 

[JVoutilainen]

hso,

My experience has taught me that you don't have to beat the crap out of each other in training to be effective and to persevere and win in spite of pain.

My point was that because of the nature of their training boxers "mature" alot faster than many other martial artist. Same goes for all disciplines that allow "full contact". However, my actual training tip was meant not to be "full force".

I've not trained as a boxer and had my nose broken a couple of times without being stopped

Never had my nose broken *knocks on wood*, and all in all, I have survived interesting situations with surprisingly little scar tissue. This has more to do with luck and my ability to "read" people than competence in martial arts. If I don't count the knuckle I mentioned my worst (but relatively minor) injuries are training related - like loose shoulder joints. Yes, I should have listened to my instructors when they said it is a bad idea to go "all the way" with certain locks and throws. But, like many others I was young and "indestructible".

One more training tip. This you can do without a partner. As I get older I have noticed that my hands stay relatively quick, but my legs are getting slow and stiff. In addition to stretching practicing the knee kick (grab head, pull, make contact with your knee) without a target helps. I do it by standing on one foot and repeating the kick over and over again, as fast as I possibly can, without letting the leg that is doing the kicking touch ground between kicks. I have noticed faster results training like this, compared to practicing with a training partner and a target.

Edit:

Owen Spaks says

Gouging someone in the eyes may not end a fight if they already have their hands on you.

Could not agree with you more. Besides, even though we are talking about self defense one should always keep in mind that you don't want to "escalate" the situation by doing something that can, if not successful, enrage your opponent and turn the situation against you.

In my opinion you should always aim to defuse a conflict with minimal use of force. In my book that often means grappling. If you start kicking and punching, or hitting with a stick you must have absolute confidence that you can finish what you started.

 

[JShirley]

There are 3 primary targets of the human body attack and remove one or a combination of the three and the fight is over.

*Ability to see
*Ability to breath
*Ability to stand

I express, and think of, it like this. Machines can only be reliably stopped three ways:

Hydraulic failure
Structural failure
Electrical failure

Translated to animals, this means, fluid loss, sufficient bone breakage, or CNS shutdown.

 

[hso]

But, like many others I was young and "indestructible".

Yep, I remember those days (and am reminded frequently by arthritis from broken knuckles, dislocated fingers, torn shoulder muscles, blown out knees, ...). The phrase, "If I'd knowed then what I knows now I woulda been a little more careful", comes to mind.

That is a good point for our members, train with someone that can help keep you healthy since being injured not only interferes with your ability to train, but your capabilities when your body is older and has accumulated all those injuries of over-exuberant youth.

 

[Steel Talon]

In Tansu we add two more:

The ability to use the hands

and

The ability to think and process information.

Owen,
These two would fall under the ability to stand...
ST~

 

[Steel Talon]

I express, and think of, it like this. Machines can only be reliably stopped three ways:

Hydraulic failure
Structural failure
Electrical failure

Translated to animals, this means, fluid loss, sufficient bone breakage, or CNS shutdown.

Spot on..
ST~