The next time you think that the pistol in your waistband is a death ray, read this:

[Jeff White]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304176,00.html

Florida Man Shot Three Times, but Still Makes Flight to New York

Monday, October 22, 2007

Three gunshot wounds weren’t enough to keep a Florida man from catching a flight to New York, MyFoxTampaBay.com reported Sunday.

William Notaro, 37, of Dunedin, Fla., was playing cards early Saturday before his flight to New York later that morning. After an argument around the poker table, Notaro told police a female card shark pulled out a handgun and shot him three times, MyFoxTampaBay reported.

Click here for the full report from MyFoxTampaBay.com.
http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/myfox/...n=5&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Struck in the torso and arm, Notaro’s wounds were dressed by a friend so that he could get to the airport and board a plane to Albany, N.Y.

But during a layover in North Carolina, other passengers noticed Notaro was bleeding, and airport police forced him to go to the hospital, MyFoxTampaBay.com reported. Later, Notaro made it to Albany, where he reportedly gave sheriff’s deputies a conflicting account of the story surrounding the shooting.

Notaro told police not to go after the shooter, and that he will not press charges against her. Regardless, cops are investigating, MyFoxTampaBay reported.

I always look for reminders that guns aren't always the solution. Mindset...that's what keeps us safe. Handguns are not deathrays. And they are poor fight stoppers at best.

Jeff

 

[ganymede]

wow. I wonder what type of round it was

 

[Old Fuff]

Well now....

I'l have you know that my Lightweight Pocket Blaster MK. IVI (closed cell foam construction) is loaded with Super-Killer Multi-Magnum (SKMM) ammunition that offers 1950 FPS behind a 280 grain .17 bullet with Super Expando (SE) hollow-point nose construction.

If you can hold on to it, it will stop anything...

 

[armoredman]

Must have been a Glock... Aw, c'mon, ya know you wanted SOMEONE to start it!

 

[Jeff White]

Actually I didn't want anyone to start it. :banghead: It doesn't matter if it was a Glock a 1911 or a Lorcin.....The lesson is that handguns are ineffective weapons and that people are hard to stop. Your mind is the weapon.

Jeff

 

[648E]

Maybe the handgun in question was a .22; if so I feel just fine about my .40 S&W's.

 

[Old Fuff]

Jeff White:

To be serious - which is sometimes hard too do...

You are right. My first instructor in an Arizona CCW class went to great lengths to point out that any student that started shooting was going to be a loser no matter how things turned out. He said that your best weapon was common sense and understanding situational awareness. If that failed then as a last resort, a cool head and bullet placement. Magnum cartridges and big-bore bullets are in themselves no guarantee of success in a shooting. Police officers he said, seldom go into a fight they know (or think) is going to happen without taking either a shotgun or rifle.

That said, I don't know that you can convince many of our members. Some of them may have to find out the hard way.

 

[TheLastBoyScout]

648... There was a shooting in North Chuck 2 weeks ago where the BG got tagged 3 times with a .45 and was released later the same day.

 

[Nix]

i dont have a pistol in my waistband... i have a death ray in my waistband... and it is a death ray damnit!

 

[Diggers]

To be serious - which is sometimes hard too do...

HEH! As it should be Old Fluff!

Well what ever happened to the guy that was shot it is a fact that he is one tough SOB!

I would like to know what the real story there is..... Seems he was in a hurry to get out of town and obviously didn't want to go to a hospital and get the cop involved. Interesting and suspicious.

This is the kind of situation where the cops just know there is a dead body somewhere and know who made that body dead but just can't prove it. Pretty frustrating for them I would think. :banghead:

 

[TallPine]

Your mind is the weapon.

Don't shoot! These aren't the dudes you're looking for.

 

[roo_ster]

I am reminded of the attempt on Teddy Roosevelt's life. He was shot in the chest, made a dramatic approach to the podium, and made a 90 minute speech before going to the hospital.

While campaigning in Milwaukee, Wisconsin on October 14, 1912, a saloonkeeper named John Schrank failed in an assassination attempt on Roosevelt. Schrank did shoot the former President, but the bullet lodged in Roosevelt's chest only after hitting both his steel eyeglass case and a copy of his speech he was carrying in his jacket. Roosevelt declined suggestions that he go to the hospital, and delivered his scheduled speech. He spoke vigorously for ninety minutes. His opening comments to the gathered crowd were, "I don't know whether you fully understand that I have just been shot; but it takes more than that to kill a Bull Moose." Afterwards, doctors determined that he was not seriously wounded and that it would be more dangerous to attempt to remove the bullet than to leave it in his chest. Roosevelt carried it with him until he died.[53]

 

[ShunZu]

"You use a pistol to fight your way to a rifle." - Jeff Cooper

 

[Phydeaux642]

If I remember correctly, the deputy that taught the CCW class that I attended mentioned that eighty percent of those that find themselves on the wrong end of a firearm when it goes bang survive. That sure made me stop and think. I still feel safer when I carry, but I know it's not an "end all" solution to every problem. And, quite frankly I hope I never have to be part of any shooting statistic.

____________

"Phydeaux, bad dog....no biscuit!"

 

[Kentak]

How do we know he was shot three times? Small caliber round (possibly .25) goes through arm and into torso. Three holes. Is the victim a big man? Did the torso hit lodge in body fat? Too many unanswered questions.

This doesn't prove handguns are ineffective, only that shot placement is important. You find many more stories of "Body found behind mall with gunshot wounds" than, "Man waltzes on airplane with gunshot wounds."

K

 

[sm]

Jeff,

Great thread!

Too many folks put too much stock in Hardware.
They also never think about Problem 2.

Software, not hardware

 

[Robert Hairless]

"You use a pistol to fight your way to a rifle." - Jeff Cooper

Much as I admire Jeff Cooper's work, I use my pistol as a constant reminder that I need to get out of Dodge at the first hint of trouble brewing. I have the sense that a lot of people read messages in this "Strategies and Tactics" section to learn how to handle trouble. I read them for the purpose of learning how to avoid it. I'm far too old to be Superman, and I always was.

 

[30 cal slob]

if it was a Glock, the poor fella would have had shrapnel wounds too.

 

[cyclist]

I took a firearms class out west years ago. The instructor spoke of two aspects of firearms, one from the shooter's perspective, the other from the recipient's perspective. He spoke of victims of crimes where the person who was shot in the arm was positive they were going to die and were totally flipping out over it (gunshot equals death - period - to them), and other victims of crimes with lethal wounds who said they were fine and didn't wany any immediate help as they wanted to help go after the criminals who shot them.

Shot placement counts, caliber and bullet configuration counts, makeup of the person who got shot also counts in a big way.

As to the incident above, I'd suspect the handgun was either a .22 or .25acp or maybe a little .32acp if it was squirreled away by a card sharp/shark. I'd also suggest that there is more to the story.

 

[walking arsenal]

Duplicate thread. See here.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=311175

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The next time you think that the pistol in your waistband is a death ray, read this:

Well, it did produce the desired stop. He stopped playing cards.

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Or, the guy might be making it up. Not that it makes a gun any more of a death ray.

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/st...egory=REGIONOTHER&BCCode=&newsdate=10/23/2007

Police doubt traveler's story of bullet wounds
Investigators believe man removed from flight lied about injuries

By JORDAN CARLEO-EVANGELIST, Staff writer
First published: Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Sheriff's officials in Pinellas County, Florida, now say the man who boarded a flight from Tampa to Albany with what were reported to be three bullet wounds lied to them about how he was shot.
"Detectives are confident that whatever happened is different than what the victim initially told us," said Sgt. Jim Bordner, a public information officer for the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office.

But authorities there said little more Monday about what they believe led to William J. Notaro's injuries or why they believe the story he told them was untrue. Notaro has family in Albany.

"At this point, detectives are continuing to investigate what his injuries are ... how extensive they are, what caused his injuries and if a crime was even committed," Bordner said.

Notaro, 37, of Clearwater, Fla., boarded a U.S. Airways flight in Tampa around 7 p.m. Saturday, scheduled to stop in Charlotte, N.C., and concealed several wounds he claims to have dressed himself, authorities said.

Notaro later told investigators they were gunshot wounds. But from the beginning, authorities said Notaro's story seemed inconsistent.

He apparently went undetected until he was observed bleeding during a connecting flight shortly before it left the Charlotte airport around 10 p.m. Saturday.

But airport police received a call for a person in need of medical attention four minutes before the flight's scheduled takeoff, said airport spokeswoman Haley Gentry.

Sheriff's deputies said Notaro was treated at Carolinas Medical Center. He later boarded another U.S. Airways flight to Albany on Sunday afternoon, Gentry said.

According to the sheriff's office, Notaro told investigators he was shot three times by a woman during an argument at 3 a.m. Saturday at the Windemere Apartments complex west of Tampa.

But a manager there said Monday that was not true.

"There was no shooting at Windemere Apartments, and that gentleman does not live here," Rennit Osteen said.

A woman who answered the phone at the home of a relative in Albany declined comment.

Albany Detective James Miller, a department of public safety spokesman, said that as far as he knows, investigators here have not been asked to assist with the Florida investigation.

 

[SEMO Shooter]

An interesting statistic I heard on the news a few weeks ago said

"80% of all people shot with a handgun survive, but 80% of all people shot with a rifle die."

I don't know what study produced this number but I would like to have heard more.

 

[Funderb]

Probably some SNS small caliber.
But it is a testament to handguns, that you don't always have the time to place one good shot, or three.
The whole report sounds sketchy to me.

 

[seeker_two]

What if the pistol in my waistband IS a death ray? (My FFL has a supplier from Mongo.... )

After an argument around the poker table, Notaro told police a female card shark pulled out a handgun and shot him three times, MyFoxTampaBay reported.

Notaro told police not to go after the shooter, and that he will not press charges against her.

Must be one heck of a card-playing woman.....