The price we pay for being right

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Eric F

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There was a thread on here a few days ago about a member involved in a shooting. It was deleted because there were investigations either pending or in progress. That thread is the inspiration for this.

Say we had a justifiable shoot. Career criminal does (fill in the blank) and has a weapon and directly threatens your life so you shoot him. Police DA ect say you were justifiable. Now the guy you shot (if he lived) or his family (if he did not live) runs you in on civil charges of wrongful death or what ever else legal term there is. Or maybe he is paralyzed (disabled ect) now he wants you to foot the bill for the rest of his life.
What is wrong with our legal system where this happens?:banghead:

There was a case here several years ago and some details elude me but a guy robed a liquor store and a patron was armed one way or another the patron shot the robber dead and was not charged but his family wanted several million dollars for a wrongful death charge in civil court and ended up getting $100,000 WHY?:cuss:
 
All is not lost.

Last year, Texas adopted some "Castle Doctrine" laws.

I'm sure you've hears of them.

One of the things that came with those laws is defense for the defender.

Here in Texas, the bad guys cannot sue us for defending ourselves.

Maybe we will get lucky and these laws will catch on in other places.
 
Because some states don't have a law like Florida which forbids lawsuits by the BG and his family in a justfiable shoot. Whoo hoo for the Gunshine State!
 
Eric,
This is the reasoning behind most of the "Castle" laws (you know, the ones that got shot down recently as "having no purpose").

Had those laws passed they would have eliminated (or at least severely curtailed) harassing civil suits after an incident.
 
well I am not sure about OK but I am looking at texas in 10 years....retirement house no.1 Michigan has retirement house no.2
 
I hope everyday that Ohio passes the Castle Doctrine, because as it's looking right now, every bullet that I fire at a BG is going to cost me about $10 Grand.
 
Oklahoma has the stand your ground law now, we are protected from civil judgment there, move to OK!
Click to expand...

Does that just move the suit from the state to the federal level, or does it have a real effect?

Not being a wise guy, I am just curious.

Mike
 
Does anyone have a verifiable example of a successful example of a BG getting shot while committing a crime and successfully suing an innocent shooter? (As in not a case of one BG shooting another, and the shootee successfully suing, and not a case where the shooter claims the shootee was committing a crime but the police can find no evidence of a crime.)
I hear read this all the time on the internet, but I’m afraid I haven’t found any examples.
 
does Virginia have anything like castle or Stand-your-ground laws? I just searched and couldnt find anything. Wiki doesnt list it under any castle-law states, but the list is nearly a year old since its last update.
 
I hope everyday that Ohio passes the Castle Doctrine, because as it's looking right now, every bullet that I fire at a BG is going to cost me about $10 Grand.
Click to expand...

You may be getting off quite cheap at that price, unless you fire a lot of rounds.

When I was in law school my criminal law prof advised that before we ever agree to take a felony case, we get a retainer of $25K. And that was quite a long time ago. At $250/hour (already cheap nowadays), that's 100 hours of work. Try and carry out discovery, research write motions and briefs, find, interview, and pay expert witnesses, arrange your own independent tests, meet with your client, meet with the prosecutor, and spend some time in court in less than 100 man-hours. Not gonna happen.
 
My attorney has a blanket order that basically says that if I am sued for a justified shoot due to defending myself from a BG's illegal actions he is to counter sue the BG or his family (whichever brings the suit) for 10 times the ammount they are suing for. This is a tactic that police officers should be using for frivilous suits on them. For the BG to claim that they can no longer ply their trade, show me in any law book that robbery, murder, rape or any crime of violence from them is a legitimate occupation. Any suit brought on their behalf will be countered with a harrasment as well as infliction of intentional emotional distress suit.
 
because as it's looking right now, every bullet that I fire at a BG is going to cost me about $10 Grand.
Click to expand...

You shooting X-Treme Shock ammo? :D

No really, Ohio's had Castle Doctrine on each session's slate but it keeps getting held up in committee until the end of the year, then dumped. I think it'll take a congressman's defensive shooting and subsequent civil suit in order to get it passed. They seem to slack until it happens to them.
 
Does anyone have a verifiable example of a successful example of a BG getting shot while committing a crime and successfully suing an innocent shooter? (As in not a case of one BG shooting another, and the shootee successfully suing, and not a case where the shooter claims the shootee was committing a crime but the police can find no evidence of a crime.)
I hear read this all the time on the internet, but I’m afraid I haven’t found any examples.
Click to expand...

I don't know of any cases where the lawsuit was successful, but there have been many cases where a lawsuit was filed. The reality is, even if you win, you're still out thousands, or maybe even tens of thousands of dollars to defend yourself from the suit. That's the real kicker here, I mean, how many of us have so much money that spending 10K defending ourselves from a bogus suit wouldn't be nearly as financially ruinous as actually losing the case. Not to mention the stress involved in not knowing how it's going to turn out.

God Bless TX for passing "Castle Doctrine," because a bullet fired in self defense should cost $0.40, not $10,000.
 
Remember that you can counter-sue for court costs. Juries are probably not going to be too sympathetic toward people who sue when their scumbag career criminal kid gets show while robbing someone.
 
I just following the money....

With talk of suit and counter suit, even if all found for you, the lawyers will be richer.
 
Counter sueing when the party you are sueing doesn't have a pot to p*** in isn't going to do much for your out-of-pocket. Now if you could go after the attorney who represented them that would be another thing all together. People get sued every day for acts performed within their scope of authority that are not malicious or intentional, why should attornies have immunity?
 
RPCVYemen said:
Does that just move the suit from the state to the federal level, or does it have a real effect?

Not being a wise guy, I am just curious.

Mike
Click to expand...

the actual text reads as follows:

F. A person who uses force, as permitted pursuant to the provisions of subsections B and D of this section, is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes charging or prosecuting the defendant.
<snip>
H. The court shall award reasonable attorney fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection F of this section.
Click to expand...
you can read the entire thing for yourself here, it's §21-1289.25. Physical or deadly force against intruder.
 
Because some states don't have a law like Florida which forbids lawsuits by the BG and his family in a justfiable shoot. Whoo hoo for the Gunshine State!
Click to expand...

And our lovely Gunshine state goes even one further. If the BG that got shot and died, had an accomplice that lives and is apprehended, FL will charge the accomplice with murder!!! . . . and the good guy that stood his ground is NOT charged.

How's that for justice!!!

I just LOVE the Gunshine state :D
 
Try this: www.armedcitizensnetwork.com

From that link:
Do You Worry About
the Aftermath of a Self-Defense Shooting?

Many others share your concerns. Like-minded armed citizens all across the nation are joining together as members of the newly-formed Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, LLC (the Network), to protect their legal rights if ever they are compelled to use deadly force in self-defense.

The Network’s goal is to prevent miscarriages of justice through—

  • Educating members about the legalities of using deadly force for self-defense and how to interact with the criminal justice system after a shooting.
  • Creating a nationwide network of attorneys and legal experts which the member can draw upon in the event of a self-defense shooting.
  • Granting financial assistance from a separate non-profit foundation to members who are facing unmeritorious prosecution or civil action after a self-defense incident.
Click to expand...

pax
 
the actual text reads as follows:
Click to expand...

What's not clear to me from the text:

  • Can a state law preclude a federal lawsuit?
  • Isn't the second part of the law completely and utterly worthless? What is the value - to your lawyer - of a judgment against a convicted (or dead) felon? Or his family?

Mike
 
And our lovely Gunshine state goes even one further. If the BG that got shot and died, had an accomplice that lives and is apprehended, FL will charge the accomplice with murder!!!
Click to expand...

Isn't that pretty much standard criminal law?

I think that's called "the felony murder rule", and dates from the 12th century. Not sure how much credit Florida or any other state can take for 12th century legal principal ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule

Mike
 
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