The sweetest .400 bore rifle.

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H&Hhunter

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I have shot a good number of the medium .400 bore rifles. I've spent time with a .416 Rigby, a .416 Remington, the .450-400 NE and have played with a .416 Ruger. I've spent a good amount of time behind a .404 Jeffery and currently own one. I have not played with any of the more rare ones like .425 WR or a palethora of other oddities in the .400 bore range that appeared and disappeared during the height of the African and Indian big game hunting days.

It always amazes me which calibers stay popular and which disappear into obscurity. If you'd ask most people which was the most famous of the .400's most would say the .416 Rigby. Which is absolutely incorrect. Their were only about 100 original rifles chambered in .416 Rigby. It became famous primarily due to Robert Ruark and his writings about Selby who was an ardent .416 Rigby fan. The .416 Rigby disappeared for a long time before being brought back to life in the last 30 years. It's a great round but requires a special large size magnum action to accomidate it.

Without a doubt the king of the .400 bore rifles is the .404 Jeffery. There were thousands of .404 Jeffry rifles produced and it was the primary game control and cropping rifle issued to most park rangers and culling units for multiple decades. With a 400 gr solid bullet it can be counted on to reliably penetrate an elephant skull from any angle and has enough thump to knock the biggest game down, breaking the largest bones reliably. It does all that with moderate recoil, out of a standard Mauser size action which holds four rounds down and one up the pipe. Original .404 ballistics are a 400 gr bullet at 2150 FPS.

In a modern rifle with modern powders it is very easy to get a 400 gr bullet at 2400 FPS out of the .404 Jeffery. Easily matching the original .416 Rigby ballistics. You can get a 347 gr round moving at 2500 FPS if you wish.

Some interesting notes about the .404 Jeffery. The early rifles had a bore diameter of .419, .411, or .423 depending on who manufactured the rifle. Modern ..404s are all .423 diameter. If you find a clean older .404 that is for sale at a very reasonable price beware, it's almost certainly one of the odd bore diameters.

The .404 was named the .404 not for its bore diameter BTW. It was a marketing ploy, advertising that it was a .400 bore rifle that held 4 bullets. Which was a huge selling point back at the turn of the century when the round was developed and most rifles capable of hunting big game were still single shot or a double rifle.

The .404 in its heyday was the primary working mans African and Indian big game round. When the English empire desolved, the .404 slipped into obscurity. Primarily due to the lack of available ammo. It has never made a serious comeback, which is a shame. The round is standard length, it fits in a standard action, it hits with serious authority, its versatile and it's very mild to shoot when compared to the other big bore DG calibers. After having shot the various modern .416 rounds I can see no reason for them to exist when the .404 was already here and a proven big game round for over a century. My .400 bore bolt gun is a .404 Jeffery and I wouldn't change that for any reason!
 
That was fun to read.
While ill always be happy with more cartridge options, 90% of the time i feel they are reinventing the wheel. Ill never really have a reason for a .404 or 425 or even a .416 rem/ruger/wby/whut not, they still hold my interest, and id be happy with any (or a .375h&h for that matter), but ive always preferred the idea of a .404 or .425
 
That is a great old round, I think CZ still makes their Safari Classic in .404. Being that my shoulder has been causing problems the last couple of years my doctor recommended giving up the heavy kickers, so I've downsized my medium bore to a 9.3 x 74R.
 
That is a great old round, I think CZ still makes their Safari Classic in .404. Being that my shoulder has been causing problems the last couple of years my doctor recommended giving up the heavy kickers, so I've downsized my medium bore to a 9.3 x 74R.

Another of my favorites! I've got a little Chapuis double in 9.3x74R.
 
That was fun to read.
While ill always be happy with more cartridge options, 90% of the time i feel they are reinventing the wheel. Ill never really have a reason for a .404 or 425 or even a .416 rem/ruger/wby/whut not, they still hold my interest, and id be happy with any (or a .375h&h for that matter), but ive always preferred the idea of a .404 or .425

The .404 would make the worlds most sexy Hawaiian hog and feral cattle thumper! Just sayin'.:cool:
 
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I just don't have a need for that type of rifle but there is an older gentleman that tends to show up at the range quite often at the same time I do. We both like to be early, often putting up targets in the dark and having to wait for daylight to shoot. He has quite an assortment of rifles Including a Ruger 77 in 416 Rigby. He let me put a few rounds through it one day. I wouldn't buy one, but am glad I got to experience shooting one.
 
Nice write up on big bores.

Those big bores in double rifles can put bullets down range as fast as bolt guns can. When in high school and out to a local range shooting my 270, a guy showed up with a Rigby double. He said a trip to Africa was soon and needed to get back decent marksmanship skills to take the big five easily.

He sets up four clay pigeons at 50 yards. Back at the line, he chambers two 470 Nitro Express rounds then fits two more between fingers of the fore hand holding the double's fore stock. Quickly shouldering the rifle, he nails two clays handily, drops the rifle as he opens the action to auto eject two empties. His left hand with two more rounds is loading them before the two ejected hit the ground. Reshouldering the Rigby, he shatters the last two clays. All in under 10 seconds from first to fourth shot. He mentioned those big five animals move pretty fast towards people they wish to harm.

I was handed the rifle to shoot two rounds. It wasn't a quick hard recoil like my 270 had. More like a slower, harder fast push that never seemed to stop. That was the left barrel. I didn't shoot the right one. My 17 year old body was emotionally overcome. But it was a worthwhile experience.
 
What do you mean by standard action? If you are talking the classic long action, i.e. 30-06 then there is a lot of modification that has to be done to one to chamber .404 Jeffery and they are hard to get to feed.

If I were to have a DG rifle it would be a .404 and nothing else.
 
The .404J in the original ballistics is one of those perfect solutions to a problem that came along, everyone used it for a while, loved it, and then somehow we all forgot about it. The .450/400 NE (a ballistic twin) is the same way. They fall at exactly the sweet spot for a stopping rifle for dangerous game, up to and including elephant. And most importantly, it's not too much rifle. Because every bit of recoil you add beyond what's needed to get that solid through the elephant brain just means slower follow-up shots or a heavier rifle (which again makes it slower).

The fact that a .404J can be made to feed in essentially anything that a .375H&H fits in thereby avoiding special magnum actions is just icing on the cake. It's very unfortunate the M70 was not chambered in .404J in addition to or in place of .458 WM. Not only would it result in a faster, higher capacity, and otherwise equally good rifle for Africa, but it would be much more useful in North America as well.

If you have or are considering buying a .404J with a non-.422-.423 bore (and you should slug it if you're not sure) then I would suggest talking to Northfork bullets. They will design and run custom bullets (both expanding and solids) for a very reasonable engineering fee. The discount you get buying that oddball rifle can be converted into several hundred bullets.
 
Yes, great post for sure H&Hhunter.

Hold the phone, Hawaii has feral cattle???

I lived in Hawaii for 23 years and yes, there's feral cattle and you can hunt them. A female friend from Hawaii who has hunted with me in MT has been on a few of those hunts but with a pistol of all things. I'm not sure if she was on private land or state land though.
 
An article I read in some magazine told about a Winchester 21 double shotgun whose barrels were relined with rifled bores chambered for some big bore rimmed cartridge. Iron sights were installed. Tests showed that their bore axes crossing several yards down range was good to regulate such that bullets struck point of aim at 40 or 50 yards away. I don't remember what gauge it was but the original ejectors were used as they were a good fit for the cartridge used.

All the belted magnum afficianados should celebrate a British gunmaker figuring out how to convert a big bore rimmed case to one that worked equally reliably in bolt action box magazine rifles as well as doubles. Such cartridges have small shoulder angles that set back too far in rimless versions as firing pins drove them deeper into chambers. That near 1/4 inch wide belt let them headspace at their back end like their rimless parent case as well as reliable feeding in stagger stacked box magazines. One great idea by Harris Holland and his nephew Henry Holland that some think better than the side by side box lock they made famous.

What's not so well known is the H&H belted cases were not made for very high pressure cartridges. Those big bore rimmed cartridges that were also made in belted versions all used the same bullets and charges of Cordite. Peak pressures were in the low 40,000 cup range; about 10,000 cup less than the 308 Winchester and 30-06. "Magnum" became popular in their name because that word also defined larger-than-normal size cases like big bottles of France's popular beverage that were always necked down.
 
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What do you mean by standard action? If you are talking the classic long action, i.e. 30-06 then there is a lot of modification that has to be done to one to chamber .404 Jeffery and they are hard to get to feed.

If I were to have a DG rifle it would be a .404 and nothing else.

Cdb,

I am not inferring that it is easy to make a .404 Jeffrey feed and function on a standard action. Only that a standard non magnum action fits the .404 allowing cheaper non custom rifles to use the .404. It takes a talented gun smith to make a .404 feed and function on a modified action!

See below.
https://www.norma.cc/en/Products/Hunting/404-Jeffrey/
 
I got to shoot Jack Huntington's little Chapuis 9.3x74R back in October. It's intoxicating! He's taken several head of big game with it.



Hold the phone, Hawaii has feral cattle???
Yep, and likely one of the best excuses Ill ever have to get something with more umph than my .458socom or a .45-70....i guess i need to start complaining my .458 isnt cutting it, if i complain enough an expensive solution to shut me up will appeal to the wife quite a bit more.....
As MCMXI said, theres a few opportunities both state, and private property. Choice of weapons have ranged from a recurve, to my .458 and larger, we keep saying were gonna go bow one of these times but never do LOL.
 
Of your big bore rifles I've had the pleasure to shoot, and thank you for your generosity in letting me do so, that .404 remains my favorite.

It's a pretty rifle, (Dakota arms I think?) with traditional wood and a good thump without being punishing.
 
Those big bore rimmed cartridges that were also made in belted versions all used the same bullets and charges of Cordite. .

Uh, no.
The .375 H&H Flanged Magnum was in 1939 loaded with two grains less Cordite than the .375 H&H Belted Magnum, and therefore delivered 50-100 fps slower velocity depending on bullet weight. Current specs for the .375 Flanged Magnum are for 47,000 Ppsi vs .375 Belted Magnum now up to 62,000 which should make more difference in velocity. SAAMI shows two different velocities for .375 Belted, one about like 1939, one higher. I could not find the basis for two numbers.

The .300 H&H was originally known as the ".30 Super" with velocity about like .30-06. Winchester souped it up considerably and called it a Magnum.

Many of the current crop of rimless (and beltless) magnums are on the .404 head diameter.
 
We went to the big island last summer and thoroughly enjoyed it. I knew about the feral goats and really wished I'd taken a rifle but had no idea there were feral cattle too! We want to go back at some point and that gives me some ideas. :D
 
Jim, I was referring to pressures at the time belted cases came to pass. Not what they were loaded to some decades later. That's why I said they "were loaded" instead of "are loaded." The 275 H&H Belted and Flanged Magnum cartridges were introduced in 1912. Both identical in shape and load except for their head spacing mechanics. The 375 H&H version was introduced at the same time. The British Super 30 was introduced in the early 1920's soon renamed the 300 H&H Magnum in 1925 by Winchester when they used it.

I'll accept two demerits for not making that clear and only assuming the time frame it happened would be known to be over a century ago.
 
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Interesting to find a thread about something I've never ventured to. Not that I'd particularly need something between the .375H&H and .460Wby but this has definitely given a few ideas. Of course, it's usually about wants, rarely if ever just needs...
 
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