The time has come to take a stand....

[Gunhead]

First of all, my small country supports the military action against Iraq (if this means anything at all ). As we speak, exiled iraqi volunteers are trained on our military bases to take over when the Hussein-regime falls in Baghdad.

So I suppose we are on the side of the US... I also support a military action against the crazy old fart.

But what I don't understand is the euro bashing on the boards, just because some countries don't fully agree with the US. They disagree, so they are immediately became enemies, ungrateful dogs, cowards, etc. This is the democracy what the US is so proud of? Even in the UK around 2 million people went to the streets of London this weekend protesting against the war. This tells a bit about how unconvincing the facts the US have against Iraq.

This is the 21st century, it's time to dump the lone gunslinger costume. Everyone knows that OJ Simpson (Hussein) killed his wife (supports terrorists), but you can't jail (bomb) him until you can convince the jury to prove him guilty...

 

[muddyboots]

Let me open the safe and see what's here...

HK 91
HK 93
Walther PPK/S
Sig 220
Sig 229
1908 DWM Luger
Weatherby .240 Magnum
Glock 17

...seven Germans and one Austrian. (Don't let the Weatherby fool you. It was made by J.P. Sauer & Sohn.) Nope, I don't see anything here I want to get rid of. Gerhard Schroeder isn't all of Germany; he's just a conniving politician. But so are Teddy Kennedy, Charles Schumer, Barbara Boxer, et al. I'll still buy products from Massachusetts, New York, and California.

 

[Humble Texan]

But what I don't understand is the euro bashing on the boards, just because some countries don't fully agree with the US. They disagree, so they are immediately became enemies, ungrateful dogs, cowards, etc.

Yep, that just about covers it. You see, it is not a simple disagreement. It is a MAJOR obstruction to enforcing 17 UN resolutions and correcting 12 years of appeasement. I want to do more than "bash". I want to exert pressure on the appeasers.

Even in the UK around 2 million people went to the streets of London this weekend protesting against the war. This tells a bit about how unconvincing the facts the US have against Iraq.

You are kidding, aren't you??? The prostest are not about the facts. The facts are clear. Read the 12 year history again, PLEASE. The protestors are turning their backs on the Iraqi people. They are aiding genocide, murder and tourture. They also aid in the continued development of WMD.A Good Read

 

[andy]

I'm keeping my Glock and will buy European made firearms if I think they are worth buying. Mr. Bush has done a lousy job of selling this war and as much as I want to support him I just can't. Going into a major war with only tepid public support is a bad idea and might just doom it to be another Vietnam style failure. I hate to say it but I think we will have to wait until these guys like Sadam do something really big, like nuke one of our cities before we can motivate people to fight. We have to wait for the American people, or for that matter the European people, to have a Pearl Harbor before they will act. Otherwise we will be viewed as the aggressors.

 

[hops]

NATO moves in the right direction: I got this off of CNN. France is not a member of this NATO commettee because France bailed out of NATO's integrated military structure in 1966/1967.

BRUSSELS, Belgium (CNN) -- The 18 members of a key NATO committee agreed unanimously Sunday night to approve defense planning for Turkey in case of war against Iraq.

"The 18 NATO allies -- members of the integrated military structure -- agreed today to task military planners to begin their work and advice on preventive deployment of AWACS airplanes, NATO support for deployment of theater missile defenses of Turkey, and support for allied chemical and biological defense capabilities," NATO Secretary-General George Robertson said.

France, the sole member of NATO that is not on the Defense Planning Committee, continued to oppose the idea.

The announcement was made after a day of what Robertson called "arduous but constructive" discussions. Last week, France, Germany and Belgium declined to approve the move. The German and Belgian representatives were persuaded to change their minds.

"I'm happy to announce we have been able to collectively overcome the impasse we faced for the last few days," Robertson said.

"These decisions are purely for the defense of Turkey," he said. "This is not a step toward war."

Robertson added, "NATO nations have assumed their collective responsibilities toward Turkey, a nation at the moment under threat."

Turkey sought the help last week, after it became clear that U.S.-led war with Iraq appears likely.

France, Germany, and Belgium had fought the move out of concern that it would push the region closer to conflict.

But a NATO new release offered this assurance: "We continue to support efforts in the United Nations to find a peaceful solution to the crisis. This decision relates only to the defense of Turkey, and is without prejudice to any other military operations by NATO, and future decisions by NATO or the U.N. Security Council."

 

[Humble Texan]

Sad day.....

Andy says,

I'm keeping my Glock and will buy European made firearms if I think they are worth buying. Mr. Bush has done a lousy job of selling this war and as much as I want to support him I just can't. Going into a major war with only tepid public support is a bad idea and might just doom it to be another Vietnam style failure.

Andy, well spoken, shallow, meaningless and fearful, just like the French and Germans, by all means keep your Glock and buy all the German and Austria weapons you want. That is a minor consideration. That is a great thing about America. I can tell by your post you are an appeaser. If you don't think President Bush, (of course you call him Mr., big tip off) has made the case, then you have not been paying attention.


I will refrain from telling you what I really think of you out of courtesy to others who read this forum. Of course, many here may agree with you.

They will make their own judgements. I for one will stand shoulder to shoulder with President Bush, Australia, Britian, and the many other countries that support disarming Saddam and liberate the Iraqi people.

 

[DeltaElite]

You are either with us or against us.
The countries that are hampering our efforts are ungrateful cowards.

I am so sick of hearing what the rest of the world thinks, like I give a damn what some eurotrash think.
We have propped up the European economy and protected them during the cold war and during two World Wars.
So they can kiss my patooty, if they don't like what we do.
We really don't need their help anyway, now do we?

 

[ahadams]

gentlemen, gentlemen

Gunhead's comments point out a major preconceptual error on the part of much of Europe: they really believed all that the previous administration put out about subordinating US interests to the UNnatural conglomeration in New York.

I personally could care less how many Europeans demonstrated whereever against going into Iraq. If the 19th and 20th centuries proved nothing else it was that we cannot *ever* trust the continental Europeans to take action on a bad situation until it's too late for them to do anything on their own.

If they don't want to support us, fine. Let them complain all they want. They can do almost nothing about it, and what little they can do will result in worse problems for them than for us.

The real problem here is that ever since the mid 1960's, other than the Regan administration, we've fairly much been trying to pretend we are not an imperial power, when in fact that's exactly what we are. Perhaps it's simply time to start acting like it again.

 

[Marshall]

Mr. Bush has done a lousy job of selling this war and as much as I want to support him I just can't. Going into a major war with only tepid public support is a bad idea and might just doom it to be another Vietnam style failure

OMG

It is a shame that "President Bush", not Mr. Bush, has to "sell" this war to begin with! This attitude is exactly what is making what you call "tepid public support"! The only thing similar to this and Veitnam is what you are doing and saying!

Wake up folks!


Respectfully,

 

[andy]

Humble Texan and Marshal: If I gave you the impression that I'm some sort of lefty who is lurking on this board you are mistaken. I'm about as conservative as you get, I'm an NRA member, and I vote Republican. That means I voted for President Bush. If I offended you by refering to him as Mr. Bush I apologize. What I did was express my honest opinion of events that are occurring. That being so stated ,Humble Texan, I could really care less what your opinion is of me. Have a nice life.

 

[Marshall]

Andy,

We all the right to our views! I don't have to respect your view or, you mine. However, I do repect the fact that it is your view!

 

[andy]

Thankyou Marshall, you are a true gentleman.

 

[Marshall]

As are you Sir for saying so!

 

[Tamara]

Marshall,

It is a shame that "President Bush", not Mr. Bush, has to "sell" this war to begin with!

Yeah! Gosh, what do these people think he is? A public servant, or something? Don't they know that the President can just up and start a war with whoever he wants to, whenever he wants to? It says so in the Declaration of Independence or the Gettysburg Address or Deuteronomy or someplace...

 

[ZekeLuvs1911]

I own 2 H&K USP fullsized .45's. One is a stainless model. I will not sell them. However, I do plan to refrain from purchasing anything made from them. Looks like more Colt's, Kimbers, and Springfield Armory pistols for me!

 

[seeker_two]

FYI: Italy is on board w/ our war effort, so you can buy all the Berettas, Benellis, Ubertis, & Tangfolios (EAA) you want! And don't forget all the surplus coming from the former Bloc nations that are also on our side...

I don't currently own anything from the "Axis of Weasels" in my gun collection (sold the SIG 220 & the Glock 17 long ago), but I will refrain from buying from them. Besides (as seen above), there are a LOT of other options...

 

[Marshall]

Don't they know that the President can just up and start a war with whoever he wants to, whenever he wants to?

Dang, I could have sworn Congress gave him this power just a couple months ago, maybe it was just a dream?

 

[Carlos Cabeza]

I don't think the President needs any "approval" only that he would like some "support"...........

 

[G-Raptor]

I'm keeping my Glocks.

I don't hold European manufacturers responsible for their government's foreign policy position any more than I hold GM responsible for ours.

The French and Germans are doing a good job of isolating themselves (politically) from the US and the rest of Europe. They are entitled to their opinion. Furthermore, they have started a process that can lead to the end of NATO and the UN - I don't see either as a great loss.

As long as they make good products I will consider them, but I'm not interested in their political drivel. However, if they start to engage the US militarily, my attitude will change.