The .270 uses a .277 bullet.
The U.S. Army Chose a New Bullet for Its New Rifles
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The .270 uses a .277 bullet.
CoalTrain49
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6.8 doesn't really tell us much about bullet diameter. You have to carry that mm thing out to about 3 places to really know what the bore diameter for the cartridge really is. The cartridge naming convention isn't very reliable. The 270 Win. should have been named 277 Win. and the 300 Savage should have been a 308 Savage. Too late now.
Jessesky
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The US army just adopted the 6.5 Creedmoor for their scout snipers to be used in the sr-25 platform, mk11, etc... what surprised me is the army didn’t go with the 6.5 Grendel for its service rifle or some variant of the 5.56 necked up to 6.5 to use the same caliber bullet as the army likes to do for economic purposes.
TRX
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As I understand it, the cookoff problem is secondary to the ballistic problems.
The full set of military ballistic tables has corrections by temperature; both primers and powder are sensitive to that. Spec calls for certain performance at very low and very high temperatures.
A plastic case using the same powder and primers would, of course, have no change in how those worked... except the third factor on ballistics is case neck tension. Which is pretty consistent with brass, but not so much with plastics.
On top of that, you have the problem of retaining the bullet as an autoloader cycles. You have to use either some kind of mechanical interlock between the neck and the bullet, or glue, or both, to keep the bullet in place. Remember, full-auto weapons will generate their own freebore over time even if they didn't have much when new, and the action whips a fresh round into battery rather vigorously. You don't want the bullet to slide or snap out of the neck when the case stops moving.
Quiet
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6.8mm GP (General Purpose), XM1186.
It's to be used in the Next Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) program.
NGSW-R is the replacement for M4 Carbine and the NGSW-AR is the replacement for the M249 SAW.
The 6.8mm GP specifications are currently classified "SECRET".
However, Jane's Defense is reporting that the 6.8mm GP uses a 135gr projectile and that production will be ready at LCAAP by 2020.
It's to be used in the Next Generation Squad Weapon (NGSW) program.
NGSW-R is the replacement for M4 Carbine and the NGSW-AR is the replacement for the M249 SAW.
The 6.8mm GP specifications are currently classified "SECRET".
However, Jane's Defense is reporting that the 6.8mm GP uses a 135gr projectile and that production will be ready at LCAAP by 2020.
cheygriz
member
The old time "pumpkin rollers" still can't accept that their beloved .308/45acp lost out to the .223/9mm
They'll never get over it.
They'll never get over it.
Jim Watson
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6.8 doesn't really tell us much about bullet diameter. You have to carry that mm thing out to about 3 places to really know what the bore diameter for the cartridge really is. The cartridge naming convention isn't very reliable. The 270 Win. should have been named 277 Win. and the 300 Savage should have been a 308 Savage. Too late now.
It is less confusing if you know the difference between bore diameter and groove diameter.
The naming convention - one of several - refers to the bore diameter, the land-to-land measurement.
So .300 Savage goes by its nominal bore diameter, the .308 Winchester by its groove diameter.
theotherwaldo
Member
Whatever cartridge they choose, count on it not to be in current civilian use.
Too many countries forbid civilian use of military caliber cartridges.
It would effectively make a swath of existing firearms illegal with the stroke of a pen.
That may be part of the reason for the existence of the .222 and the .223... .
Too many countries forbid civilian use of military caliber cartridges.
It would effectively make a swath of existing firearms illegal with the stroke of a pen.
That may be part of the reason for the existence of the .222 and the .223... .
Your statement makes no sense. Any cartridge they choose will make it into the civilian market in the US very quickly.
The .222 and .223 have nothing to do with this conversation.
herrwalther
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Woefully incorrect. You can buy M855 by the pallet if you wanted to. M855A1 only has a logistical restriction as it is being sent to the military as fast as it is being made. Mk262 Mod 1 is the premier military round in 5.56. And that is just Black Hills made ammo in 77gr. 9mm NATO? Can also buy that by the pallet if you wanted to even though many civilian 9mm loads are better. When I was in, I only used the military issue stuff because I HAD TO.
DannyLandrum
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Well, what do we *know* for positive, for certain about this article? It's that the author has absolutely no clue what the hell he or she is talking about, since it says that the military 556x45 is a demon buttstomper, totally different round from the "civilian" 556x45. There is thus ZERO credibility to any claim of any nature in this article.
theotherwaldo
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Yes, it will eventually enter civilian use in the countries that allow civilians to use military cartridges.
My statement is that the military cannot adopt an existing civilian round without making existing civilian weapons and cartridges retroactively illegal in nations that ban civilians from using the same ammunition as any nation's military weapons.
My statement is that the military cannot adopt an existing civilian round without making existing civilian weapons and cartridges retroactively illegal in nations that ban civilians from using the same ammunition as any nation's military weapons.
cheygriz
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People who are trying to sell magazines/newspapers very seldom have any credibility.
I highly doubt that is even a consideration to countries that don't have the Second Amendment.
Those restrictive countries have made many legally owned civilian firearms illegal with the stroke of a pen.
Gtscotty
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“What I’ve seen so far,” the Chief of Staff said, “(and) this is entirely technologically possible, (is) an accurate range far in excess of any existing known military rifle today.”
“It will fire at speeds that far exceed the velocity of bullets today,” Milley continued, “and it will penetrate any existing… body armor” — or any future body armor projected to be fielded “in the next quarter century.”
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/10/army-moves-25b-to-big-six-including-new-6-8mm-rifle/
That doesn't sound much like an SPC to me, looking around at discussions of this news, I've seen the numbers 125gr @ 3,500 fps pop up a few times, but who knows. I'm not sure how they could get .270 Bee numbers out of something that could fit in a light SAW type weapon, maybe a new propellant running ultra high pressures in steel case heads.
Either way, with DOD focus taking a hard pivot away from insurgencies back to near-peer states in the last few years, and all the hoopla about the proliferation of level IV personal armor on the battlefield, it's not surprising to see the Army looking to pour more money into anything that might give an edge in a shooting war with Russia (or China). If they do end up shifting the mentioned $700M across the FYDP to developing and fielding a new 6.8mm round along with platforms for the round, that would certainly be a start.
“It will fire at speeds that far exceed the velocity of bullets today,” Milley continued, “and it will penetrate any existing… body armor” — or any future body armor projected to be fielded “in the next quarter century.”
https://breakingdefense.com/2018/10/army-moves-25b-to-big-six-including-new-6-8mm-rifle/
That doesn't sound much like an SPC to me, looking around at discussions of this news, I've seen the numbers 125gr @ 3,500 fps pop up a few times, but who knows. I'm not sure how they could get .270 Bee numbers out of something that could fit in a light SAW type weapon, maybe a new propellant running ultra high pressures in steel case heads.
Either way, with DOD focus taking a hard pivot away from insurgencies back to near-peer states in the last few years, and all the hoopla about the proliferation of level IV personal armor on the battlefield, it's not surprising to see the Army looking to pour more money into anything that might give an edge in a shooting war with Russia (or China). If they do end up shifting the mentioned $700M across the FYDP to developing and fielding a new 6.8mm round along with platforms for the round, that would certainly be a start.
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theotherwaldo
Member
Yeah, the countries may not care but the rifle and ammunition manufacturers certainly do!
GunnyUSMC
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Don’t y’all know? They’re going to the .277 Wolverine.
cheygriz
member
The money would be better spent on a new unmanned stealth fighter.
CoalTrain49
Member
That would be great except the military can't even afford to build the F-22, the most capable and advanced fighter in the world. They have already stopped production with only a few hundred built. Another new fighter just isn't coming. I have a relative who works with the AF as a civilian working with fighter contracts. He said the money is being spent upgrading F-16's. I guess he should know.
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Wow, the number of gun sales and ammo sales in the restricted countries is a virtual drop in the bucket.
At $361 MILLION per airframe it's a good thing they stopped production.
Jim Watson
Member
There has been talk of letting Our Oriental Friends Who Used to be Our Enemies help restart production of the F22 or a derivative. 187 planes however fine and fancy are not enough. Maybe we should have built more of Something Else.
cheygriz
member
An unmanned plane doesn't require all of the heavy, and super expensive life support of the F22.
Nor is it as limited in G-forces and manueverability. It can also be set up as a Kamikaze in case it get's shot up.
Nor is it as limited in G-forces and manueverability. It can also be set up as a Kamikaze in case it get's shot up.
CoalTrain49
Member
Already developed and DOA. When 6.8 becomes the standard military rifle I'll believe it when I see it. The problem is the military has too many people setting around with nothing to do except spend tax dollars without any clear objective.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/pentagon-kills-its-killer-drone-fleet
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theotherwaldo
Member
This is a recurring theme for the military when the leadership is clever. Develop a weapons system with extreme capabilities and bring it to the point of production - making our would-be opponents react to it - and then cancel or re-purpose it and then go with a different system with capabilities that our opponents are not prepared for.
Then repeat as necessary until your opponents are bankrupt.
That's what happened to the USSR - we got inside of their decision cycle and ran them ragged.
Then repeat as necessary until your opponents are bankrupt.
That's what happened to the USSR - we got inside of their decision cycle and ran them ragged.
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