The Ultimate KaBoom:

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That has all the appearance of an in-bore explosion. The fuse malfunctioned and set off the shell's HE charge before it cleared the muzzle.

That was what I thought, rather than rotten gunpowder.

I was sort of in the same county as the investigation of a shell that prematured in the barrel of the 105 on an AC130H. I was not involved, just heard the talk while I was on the facility.
 
No you weren't. The Army didn't start developing 8-inch artillery rounds until 1940


Could they have been BL Howitzer rounds from WW1? The US made these British howitzers, used them, during WW1.


By the start of World War II some Mk 8s were still in use in France in May to June 1940. In March 1940, 266 weapons were authorised for transfer from the United States to the British.[7] After the Fall of France, the remaining guns were used for training. In 1941 a further 168 weapons (the remaining US stock) were authorised for transfer to the British under Lend-Lease. The advent of the BL 7.2-inch howitzer meant that remaining 8-inch barrels were relined to 7.2 in (180 mm).[7] With no guns left, they were declared obsolete by July 1943. Some Vickers 8-inch guns were present in Japanese island fortifications during the Pacific Campaign.[8]
Versions of the Mk 6 were manufactured in the United States by Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co, Nicetown, Pennsylvania during World War I, initially supplied to Britain and then used to equip US forces when it entered the war. These were designated the M1917 in US service.[7]

A US Mk 7 and Mk 8+1⁄2 version was also manufactured and adopted in US service from October 1918 as the M1918.[9][7] Quoting from the US Army manual of 1920 on artillery in US service:[10]

"The 8-inch howitzer materiel is called the "Vickers" model of 1917, of which there are in use two types, the Mark VI and Mark VII. The main differences between the Mark VI and Mark VII being that the former has a lower muzzle velocity and consequently a shorter range than the latter, also that the Mark VII has a barrel of the "wire wound" construction, whereas the Mark VI type is of the "built up" construction...

The Mark VII has lately been superseded by a Mark VIII +1⁄2, the difference between the two being that the powder chamber walls of the Mark VII proved to be too thin, while the Mark VIII +1⁄2 overcomes this defect by having thicker powder chamber walls...

... the average life of the 8-inch howitzer, Mark VI, [before the barrel needs relining] is 7,800 rounds, while that of the Mark VIII +1⁄2 is 3,000 rounds.
 
Full load of Tite Group. In Project Eldest Son, they also substituted mortar fuses that would detonate the HE immediately.
 
Could they have been BL Howitzer rounds from WW1? The US made these British howitzers, used them, during WW1.


By the start of World War II some Mk 8s were still in use in France in May to June 1940. In March 1940, 266 weapons were authorised for transfer from the United States to the British.[7] After the Fall of France, the remaining guns were used for training. In 1941 a further 168 weapons (the remaining US stock) were authorised for transfer to the British under Lend-Lease. The advent of the BL 7.2-inch howitzer meant that remaining 8-inch barrels were relined to 7.2 in (180 mm).[7] With no guns left, they were declared obsolete by July 1943. Some Vickers 8-inch guns were present in Japanese island fortifications during the Pacific Campaign.[8]
Versions of the Mk 6 were manufactured in the United States by Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co, Nicetown, Pennsylvania during World War I, initially supplied to Britain and then used to equip US forces when it entered the war. These were designated the M1917 in US service.[7]

A US Mk 7 and Mk 8+1⁄2 version was also manufactured and adopted in US service from October 1918 as the M1918.[9][7] Quoting from the US Army manual of 1920 on artillery in US service:[10]

"The 8-inch howitzer materiel is called the "Vickers" model of 1917, of which there are in use two types, the Mark VI and Mark VII. The main differences between the Mark VI and Mark VII being that the former has a lower muzzle velocity and consequently a shorter range than the latter, also that the Mark VII has a barrel of the "wire wound" construction, whereas the Mark VI type is of the "built up" construction...

The Mark VII has lately been superseded by a Mark VIII +1⁄2, the difference between the two being that the powder chamber walls of the Mark VII proved to be too thin, while the Mark VIII +1⁄2 overcomes this defect by having thicker powder chamber walls...

... the average life of the 8-inch howitzer, Mark VI, [before the barrel needs relining] is 7,800 rounds, while that of the Mark VIII +1⁄2 is 3,000 rounds.

I have no idea. I was a stupid private. I remember a Sgt. saying these f rs are from ww1. Couldn't hit crap with them. Chrono numbers were all over the place.
 
Full load of Tite Group. In Project Eldest Son, they also substituted mortar fuses that would detonate the HE immediately.

The common wisdom was that the trapped cartridges were loaded with C4 but I don't think a primer will set it off. A rifle case full of pistol powder would sure wreck the gun.

An article in SoF once described Soviet hand grenades taken from Contras as having codes for the length of delay. A few grenades in each case were unobviously marked for no delay. A tripwire would make a booby trap, a stolen grenade might be a surprise to the user.
 
I’m very surprised that it banana peeled. That normally happens with rifled barrels. I thought modern tanks all had smoothbore barrels shooting sabot rounds. Is this one of the ancient Soviet tanks that got brought out of the scrapyard?
Just a minor physics tidbit....

The banana peel effect can happen with a smoothbore.

Weiners on the grill always split lengthwise. Why? The stress around the circumference of a cylinder is twice the stress along its length. So a split along the length relieves the stronger stress around the circumference.
 
Could they have been BL Howitzer rounds from WW1? The US made these British howitzers, used them, during WW1.


By the start of World War II some Mk 8s were still in use in France in May to June 1940. In March 1940, 266 weapons were authorised for transfer from the United States to the British.[7] After the Fall of France, the remaining guns were used for training. In 1941 a further 168 weapons (the remaining US stock) were authorised for transfer to the British under Lend-Lease. The advent of the BL 7.2-inch howitzer meant that remaining 8-inch barrels were relined to 7.2 in (180 mm).[7] With no guns left, they were declared obsolete by July 1943. Some Vickers 8-inch guns were present in Japanese island fortifications during the Pacific Campaign.[8]
Versions of the Mk 6 were manufactured in the United States by Midvale Steel and Ordnance Co, Nicetown, Pennsylvania during World War I, initially supplied to Britain and then used to equip US forces when it entered the war. These were designated the M1917 in US service.[7]

A US Mk 7 and Mk 8+1⁄2 version was also manufactured and adopted in US service from October 1918 as the M1918.[9][7] Quoting from the US Army manual of 1920 on artillery in US service:[10]

"The 8-inch howitzer materiel is called the "Vickers" model of 1917, of which there are in use two types, the Mark VI and Mark VII. The main differences between the Mark VI and Mark VII being that the former has a lower muzzle velocity and consequently a shorter range than the latter, also that the Mark VII has a barrel of the "wire wound" construction, whereas the Mark VI type is of the "built up" construction...

The Mark VII has lately been superseded by a Mark VIII +1⁄2, the difference between the two being that the powder chamber walls of the Mark VII proved to be too thin, while the Mark VIII +1⁄2 overcomes this defect by having thicker powder chamber walls...

... the average life of the 8-inch howitzer, Mark VI, [before the barrel needs relining] is 7,800 rounds, while that of the Mark VIII +1⁄2 is 3,000 rounds.
Probably not.

Pretty much everything that I shot during my "career" was listed in the 6-50. I wasn't aware of us ever shooting somebody else's ammunition.
That has all the appearance of an in-bore explosion. The fuse malfunctioned and set off the shell's HE charge before it cleared the muzzle.
I won't say no. I really won't say no because I have no idea of North Korea's manufacturing quality control capabilities.

I will say that American fuzes (Properly made) arm by rotation and set back there's a gyro in the fuse and the round has to rotate so many times before the gyro will arm the fuse.

In theory
you shouldn't be able to force this to happen
 
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That's what I was told. We were still taping the bags
What exactly was your position in the gun section?

If you were taping holes in powder bags somebody in your chain of command should have been relieved.

Every single powder canister I ever opened up during my entire "career" was in a pressurized airtight container. Stored in controlled temperature conditions (until it went to the field) and inspected for holes and rips in the bags.


I only enlisted a couple years after you and I can't believe the Army changed that much in 8 years.

We used chronographs very rarely. Maybe once a year. And we had one for the battery. And each section had to shoot a round for a chronographing.

FDC and the Forward observers kept a very close eye on where our rounds were hitting.

True story, during an FTX in Graf our section was enplaced on a mild slope. The slope imparted enough cant to the gun that my sections rounds were landing wide. They were still observed safe but they were landing apart from the other rounds in our platoon.

The second time it happened everything stopped and the platoon Sergeant came down to our section because they we're able to track the impact close enough that they knew which gun was doing it.

He went over our gun with a fine tooth comb. He ended up putting a Gunner's quadrant
FB_IMG_1701127197106.jpg
on the rear deck and he showed us that our gun wasn't level and because of that every time we elevated the tube we also deflected to the left.

So knowing that I have a really hard time believing that your Battery or your platoon was blasting all over the impact area and nobody cared.
 
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Just a minor physics tidbit....

The banana peel effect can happen with a smoothbore.

Weiners on the grill always split lengthwise. Why? The stress around the circumference of a cylinder is twice the stress along its length. So a split along the length relieves the stronger stress around the circumference.
This was an in-bore of an HE projectile:

rlbMA_-NptAxhrz05kPE9iyLlx-tX7XrNcK08-Guh7o.jpg

I won't say no. I really won't say no because I have no idea of North Korea's manufacturing quality control capabilities.

I will say that American fuzes (Properly made) arm by rotation and set back there's a gyro in the fuse and the round has to rotate so many times before the gyro will arm the fuse.

In theory you shouldn't be able to force this to happen
See above.

Oopsies happen.

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Science Fiction connection*
E.E. Smith, PhD, wrote some filler stories about Kimball Kinnison’s family tree. The mid-20th Kinnison worked in a defense plant and uncovered a scandal of voids in cast shell fill causing prematures. It has been suggested that this was based on Smith’s personal experience.

*I get a lot of these. Depraved library habits from an early age, no doubt.
 
I’m very surprised that it banana peeled. That normally happens with rifled barrels. I thought modern tanks all had smoothbore barrels shooting sabot rounds. Is this one of the ancient Soviet tanks that got brought out of the scrapyard?
Well not only that but I would think that down toward the chamber area of the tanks bbl, if that's what it's called, it would be at least 2" thick. That looks like a banana peel split like you said but it looks to be ¾" thick at most.

I hope U.S. tanks are made to a higher standard.
 
Nothing if it's a self-propelled artillery piece.

The driver's not sitting in the driver's hatch when they're emplaced and shooting.
He might be if they are getting ready to scoot. Ukrainian counter-battery is pretty effective. Staying put for more than one fire mission is suicide in this war.

That fella on the deck may very well be the driver too, of course- thanking his lucky red stars he wasn't sitting there when it popped!
 
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I saw a video of a SP gun pulling off the road, RSA, maybe.
Round 1 in 14 seconds, round 3 a minute later, on the move before 3 lands. Demonstration without enemy of course
 
They wouldn't be "Getting ready to scoot" with a round in the tube.

View attachment 1181653
No, they wouldn't.

They would shoot, THEN scoot. That is how it works.

You want to say its completely implausible that a Russian SPG driver would be buttoned-down in his station during a fire mission, fine. I think it's perfectly possible. These are the Russians we are talking about. He likely wouldn't leave the stash of pilfered booze and smokes under his seat unattended for more than a second.
In the end, this is all speculation, and, childish JPEGS aside, I really don't care that much. Peace, out.
 
No, they wouldn't.

They would shoot, THEN scoot. That is how it works.

You want to say its completely implausible that a Russian SPG driver would be buttoned-down in his station during a fire mission, fine. I think it's perfectly possible. These are the Russians we are talking about. He likely wouldn't leave the stash of pilfered booze and smokes under his seat unattended for more than a second.
In the end, this is all speculation, and, childish JPEGS aside, I really don't care that much. Peace, out.
I don't know about Russians and how they do things but when I was in an SP howitzer unit I was the driver and I had a job on the gun once I was done driving.

Even for a hip shoot. You stop, you do a minimal emplacement, you fire your rounds. Then you March Order and you go
 
The Wall Street Journal made the comment that the Russians have purchased one million rounds from the North Koreans. I don't know anything about the quality control standards of the North Koreans, but I read that 14 percent of the cluster munitions that the US sent to Ukraine are duds. That is an improvement over Vietnam where about 30% of the bombs, bomb lets, etc, we dropped, did not go off.

The military industrial complex is so conscientious with tax payer money that you can bet the contractor was given 100% award fee even though only 70% of their munitions went bang.

It is better that the fuse duds than goes off in the barrel. I am surprised that a sensitive fuse did not go off when the warhead/round was transported to and loaded into the self propelled vehicle. I don't know North Korean fuse design, maybe their fuses are a bit homesick?
 
Related useful information...

Hatcher notes an experiment where rifle bullets were fired into "large cans (150 lbs) of smokeless rifle powder" to see if they could be ignited that way.

There were cases where the Springfield rifle bullets ignited the powder, but in one case where the bullet was fired at the bottom of the can, "it exploded with great violence and turned the startled firer (100 feet away) end over end. It seems that if there is more than about 2 feet of powder above the point of entrance of the bullet, the powder may explode instead of simply burning."

"Notebook", pp 527-528, "Explosions and powder fires" chapter.

Terry, 230RN
 
When I was an officer in the NJNG I ran a pistol range, got a lot of misfires and bore obstructions due to a bad lot of 45 ACP.
Blaming an accident, a war crime or whatever on someone who is deceased is SOP in the military. In Vietnam the Peers Commission tried to pin the heaviest blame for My Lai on 5 officers who were all dead.
A story I heard years ago involved an ammo factory in WWII with a problem with misfires, the story was they had a janitor who was borderline retarded, he was sweeping up the spilled powder along with other dust and debris, it was going back into shells.
 
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