The under rated cheap knife.

[The Tourist]

There is an overriding issue here that we seldom touch upon.

Can't a person like something simply for the personal joy of "liking it"?

I'm sure a full-dress Gold Wing is quite comfortable. It doesn't look like much fun to me.

In that category, I'm not big on black powder pistols, tall redheads, books by Dumas, about 2/3's of my 1970's college courses, quiche' lorraine, courdouray pants, nagging, cold rain, and Everyone Loves Raymond.

I do like Grahams, Striders, and Emersons. I will be adding one of Valkman's knives to that list in a few weeks.

Yes, I'm tending to use my "good stuff" more as I get older. I have fewer "drawer queens."

But there are some things I have purchased for pure joy. And that feeling to me is reason enough.

Having said that, my wife and I keep a SuperKnife by the front door for difficult packages sent UPS.

 

[Rupestris]

Having said that, my wife and I keep a SuperKnife by the front door for difficult packages sent UPS.

excitement kinda gets the best of you sometimes, huh?
Can't even get away from the front door before opening goodies from the BBTOJ (Big Brown Truck Of Joy).

Embarrassed to say, I'm the same way. Dang that truck! Makes my ears perk up when I hear it coming. Just like my dog when my wife pulls in the drive.

 

[conw]

Tourist, that makes perfect sense IMO. It really does. But what (I think) Levitian here is saying is that if you have limited resources, you can spread them more evenly than some people who buy Swamprats, Emersons, whatever, do; you can allocate your resources better if you are operating on a budget...

You admit that you don't HAVE to have those knives...but if you go to Bladeforums or AR15.com or wherever, there are going to be lots of people who are full of hype about the latest whatever.

You appreciate your fine knives, and they are fine knives, but you admit that they're an indulgence...and most importantly you don't scoff at my Case.

 

[sm]

I use:
-Valkman's Small Skinner and mine is 01 steel.
-The custom made fixed blade with steel from a bastard file, with Elk handle and is a hunting classic design.
-Spyderco Mule
-Original Becker-Necker
-Krein Dogfish , plain edge, in SV30

I have used custom knives with handles of ivory, stag, 18k yellow gold, Platinum, and some had diamonds set into the precious metals , and I cleaned game, fish and fowl with these.
I never blinked wearing a Patek Philip while out quail hunting or having a Corum $20 gold pc, watch. (This is the one that is made from a US $20 gold pc, and looks like one, just one had to know where to open it.

I have used custom shotguns worth $100k on a skeet field, to fell doves, ducks and other uses.

I appreciate fine things.
I have been there and done that with nice things.

I appreciate the fact I have some skill sets, and the tool performs for me because I have skill sets.

I rarely wear a watch, the knife I always have with me, is a ugly, SAK classic that needs to be sharpened, but I have no gumption to do so.

I used a $100, bone stock, H&R Youth, 20 ga shotgun with a fixed modified choked plain barrel, and factory recoil to beat out a person with a Ultimate Extreme shotgun with pistol grip only - and - the Ultimate Extreme shotgun with pistol grip fore end, extended mags, side saddles, light, and whatever else that gun had in, on, around and hanging off it.

This bone stock gun, is a user. Don't ask when the last time the bore was cleaned, we don't know.
The chamber is cleaned, barrel is removed often and STOS, RIG+P or something used on hinge pin.
I think we used Radiator Specialty Super oil to lube the action (it would require walking 5 steps to get the can of BreakFree CLP last time lubed) and the stock and metal gets Johnson's Paste Wax.

I used the old, rusty cased slugs, I don't care, and these needed to be used up.
Oh it likes 2 3/4" Brennke's, oh yes indeed.

Still I felled low house 7, a clay bird only 4" in diameter going 55 mph with a slug, and I busted it, before it got halfway to the center stake.
I felled the incomer (high house) right at me, and clay shards went everywhere.

I ran 26/26 and somehow did not flub up, and continued to make effective hits, on moving, 3D, and stationary targets.
I was able to shoot 5 rounds, before the pump PGO could shoot 2, and she missed her shots at 7 and 10 yards.

I went 8/8 shooting from the bed of a moving pick up truck.

Now I don't do what I used to. Hell I don't shoot like I used to, and really spend my time with others shooting.

Still we keep some Old Hickory knives around and they get used for a lot of stuff, both indoors and outdoors.
The old Gerber with M2 blade was bought for 50 cents in a yard sale, and I sharpened it a year ago in a hurry.
It may get "stropped" , mostly to get the sticky stuff from tape off it.
It holds an edge.
It has busted down more clay target boxes, sliced all sorts of foods for food prep, cleaned game, fish and fowl and even cut wood for who knows what.


A Case Peanut sold for what back when the OK bombing occurred?
Do a search for the Orthopedic surgeon that amputated a leg, to save a ladies life.
He had all his surgeon tools for amputation, sharp tools, specially made for amputations.
They. Would. Not. Cut.
He could not get them to where he could use them.

The first responders more than once wanted to evacuate, it was that dangerous for them and the Doctor.

Doc used his personal pocket knife, that Peanut, to amputate that leg at the kneeand I am betting it was just whatever sharp it was, as one carries a small knife around.

Best recall the local hardware store gets $35 for a Peanut, and off the Internet one can get these for less.
I am sure they were less back when the OK bombing occurred.

We have got to stop with the majic talismans for physical items and how one maintains them.

No tool is ever better than the user of a tool.
Yes, some tools fit tasks better, still if one gets fixated and becomes anal and obsessive compulsive on aspect(s) and not the "target" they will miss out.

The SAK Pocket Pal that sells for $12 is sharp at 400 grit, and it does not matter if both sides meet perfect side to side and the edge is polished.
It will handle 90% of what folks use a knife for.

A SAK Classic one buys for $8, that has never been sharpened, and is on a key ring, or console of a car, or in a desk drawer, bottom of a purse...
Will continue to cut.

I have seen a Veterinarian do a emergency surgery with one, more than once.
That is why so many Doctors carry a SAK Classic, and very few actually have the "emergency blade" .
In the old days, Docs carried the free Advertising knives like those from Purina, or a small Imperial, Shrade, Hen & Rooster, Case...

Still a small "inexpensive" knife with a thin blade will cut, and while not expensive, the tip here is, the small thin blade, as it does not have to be polished , razor sharp to do what a medical person might need to use that knife for.

Go get the most expensive knife you have with the sharpest edge.
Now breast out 8 trash ducks, cut some cord, open boxes of shot gun shells, whittle on sticks, cut some summer sausage, cheese, brownies in a glass dish and I forget what else...
Then use that knife to do an emergency trach using a straw from a fast food joint.

Doc buddy of mine did just that one day, using a SAK Classic, back when these did not have screwdriver tip, they did not come with tooth picks and tweezers, the scissors had a screw in them.

It was a free SAK a drug rep gave him.
He had carried that knife for some time, and never sharpened it.

Human life is pretty expensive.
I had his six with a small pen knife I had won in a raffle at a shoot.
That one I had never sharpened either, just a good looking gentleman's knife only 2 3/4 in closed length.

 

[MaterDei]

I always hate posting after Steve. He makes me look stupid and overly concise. Oh well, c'est la vie.

I live in the country and have three boys. Therefore, I've bought a lot of cheap knives. I've found that the cheap gun show knives don't last more than a couple of months, the next step up, such as the Winchesters maybe half a year. I got tired of buying them new knives all the time so I started looking for knives that were sufficiently well made to last but not cost so much that a lost one would be too big of a deal.

The brands that fit my bill the best are:

1. Kershaw and a somewhat distant second is,
2. Buck

Kershaw is my preferred knife as well, not just my boys. I've also purchased my two oldest girls Kershaws and my youngest girl has a Case Peanut that her grand parents got her. Now that is a classic!

 

[hso]

If something about my post offended you, tell me what it is instead of sarasticly attackking me with a "Sorry Carl."

Nothing in your post "offended" me and I'm sorry if you thought I was attacking you.

I read your discussion as how you came to sell off your high end knives, "the best, most hyped, high dollar knife around", based on your experience as a LEO where cheap knives had been used as weapons. As such I took that as the criteria for why you got rid of your Randalls and Stoner since that's all that was presented.

I considered that impression, that any cheap low quality knife will do, to be inaccurate and a disservice to the members here where we've told folks over and over again that quality knives don't have to be expensive and expensive knives aren't always needed to serve as excellent EDC/camp/hunt knives.

I also learned a knife doeasn't need a knife magazine's blessing as the tactical knife of the month. It just needs to be sharp.

We're in complete in agreement that a pricey knife isn't needed to be a good tool or weapon.

 

[Todd A]

"Cheap" is relative.

I own used knives by Schrade,Ulster,Case,Western,Boker,Robeson,Camillus,
Kingston, Hammer Brand (New York Knife Co) and Imperial.

(Imperial made high quality knives that rivaled the others back in the day).

And even "cheap" store brands of Craftsman,STA-SHARP,and Wards.

These were mostly "cheap" working men's knives in their day. The fact that I am still enjoying using these knives today,in some cases 80 +/- years later, shows they are anything but "cheap".

High cost does not mean high quality in every case.Just as low cost does not mean your knife will instantly fall apart upon use,in every case.

 

[sm]

MaterDei,

You are parenting.
Kids lose and mess up stuff.

 

[Carl Levitian]

My point I was trying to make is a very simple one.

I'll try it again more simply.

Since this is a NON FIREARMS WEAPONS FORUM, I'm talking about the WEAPONS aspect of the thing.

Don't under estimate a cheap piece of junk because you may be one of those knife snob poeple who believe all that is written. A no name 2 dollar knife from the junk bin at a thrft store will kill you just as dead as a sebanza in the hands of the mugger you may be facing. or in your own hands when you have to fly someplace and pick up some weapons on the other end.

Too many people make the mistake of thinking that just because you have the high end what-ever, it gives you an advantage. Sorry, but it don't. And that goes for most things. If one wants to talk about the tool aspect of it, fine, lets do. Most people are tool users, but not knife knuts. So they go out and buy a low cost cutting tool. Millions of people have got by just as well with a Opinel, Douk-Douk, Mercator, Colonial barlow, Victorinox classic/bantam/pocket pal/recruit, or the humble Old Hickory.

Guns? Fine. Lots of people are not gun nuts, but recognize they may need a gun. So they buy a H&R single shot break open, or in handguns a zink frame Raven .25 or Davis .380. There is no way to deny that the single shot shotgun will drop a quial or duck just as well as a Remy 870 if the shooter does his end of it. The man holding the tool is the defining element of it. How many of you have come home without the deer with your modern gun and gear? And yet the neolithic man was out there keeping his family fed with a sharp stick. A plain wood spear with a fire hardened tip. Sure he missed alot, but so do modern hunters. If a lower paid hourly worker at a custodian job at a motel wants to defend themselves, and can't afford a Glock, should they give up? I believe Ayoob had an article in one of his writings about an abused woman who killed her abusive husband with a 49.95 zink gun. It worked good enough that she would never live in fear of him again.

My point was simple, don't underestimate the cheap whatever. Gun/knife/cresent wrench...

It just may get the job done and surprise you. I'm willing to bet money that there's been many a buck dropped with a single barrel Stevens, dressed out with a cut rate knife, and driven home in the trunk of a second rate used car.

As for my own experiance, I found myself going to other tools when I found out my custom knives did not work as well as some surprising low end stuff. My Randall trout and bird knife was a pretty thing, but it was not really all that great a knife. It was heavy, cut decent, but that was it. My little Victorinox parring knife in the nylon sheath gets a scary sharp edge, goes through a fish belly or squirrel hide way better with cleaner cutting. As for the Randall 14, it actually cut decent, but chipped when I went through a sappling on a camping trip. Something that never happened with my Tramontina 12 inch machete that cost all of 8 dollars.

Its an eye opener when you go back to using a 10 dollar Victorinox bantam because it cuts better than a 200 dollar Barry Wood folder. And the Victorinox will open bottles, can, screws and so on. Thats a heck of alot of utility for 10 dollars, any way you cut it. And the Vic comes with a real lifetime warenttee to boot. One day I found myself looking at my collection, and I asked myself "what the heck am I doing with all this stuff?" Off it all went to A.G. Russell to be sold off. Now I use 10 dollar sak's like a Bantam and classic, and my almost 40 year old S&W model 10 takes care of keeping me safe. If I go afield, my 20 gauge H&R seems to do as well as my 870 I sold off. Plus I've discovered a wonderfull sense of liberation in using cheap gear. If my canoe dumps over, breaks into my car while I'm in the diner, or some other catastrophy strikes, I can replace all the cutlery at Smoky Mountain Knifeworks for 20 dollars, and a new shotgun for a single hundred dollar bill.



Sometimes the cheap stuff works better than the high dollar hyped ----- of the month.

And hso, okay, with this media its easy to misunderstand things. I'm okay if you're okay.

 

[Rupestris]

Since this is a NON FIREARMS WEAPONS FORUM, I'm talking about the WEAPONS aspect of the thing.

Oops. Sometimes I forget this is a weapons forum and not a tool forum. My post was obviously off topic. Sorry for getting carried away.

 

[The Tourist]

Can't even get away from the front door before opening goodies from the BBTOJ (Big Brown Truck Of Joy).

Correct, there are times I just need a tool. And let's face it, for grimy, dirty wet boxes, something cheap is the correct tool.

You admit that you don't HAVE to have those knives

Sadly, you must know my weaknesses. I like nice toys. I have thousands of dollars of useless chrome in the garage. But that's precisely why I posted as I did. I did live in a cold apartment at one time. I did own cheap knives. If you work hard you should get to splurge. However, I did not want to publicize my choices as an indictment of folks who can't/won't do the same.

We have got to stop with the majic talismans for physical items and how one maintains them.

Wow! I'm going to start printing that on my business cards! The ultimate value of any tool should be decided by the practicality of its usefulness.

I was talking about the weapon aspect of the knife.

I hope you don't read anything negative into my posts. A week or two ago we talked about the defensive capabilites of my Razel, despite the fact I use it simply as a tool.

In the case of knives, that is the duality of the case. For example, you might open UPS boxes every day. Then suddenly after two decades you need that same knife for self-defense.

Now granted, you could use a Bill Bagell bowie or a Keating Chinook II for an EDC. Someone out there somewhere is a THR member who does just that. In fact, if I was staying in Yellow Knife for an extended period I might try the Bagwell, myself.

The problem here, as with any SD tool, is that you cannot schedule an emergency. There are SureFire flashlights that can double as a kubaton, but they are still great flashlights on a routine basis.

Now, is there such a thing as a dedicated edged weapon that is simply designed to slash and puncture? Yes, I polished a Konjo a month ago for just that use. I doubt it's good for anything else in the state I left it, so yes, there is such a thing as an edged weapon that exists in real time that is not a tool.

But ask yourself the same question I did. "Now that I have it, what am I seriously going to do with it?"

In a very sincere comment to the intent of your question, it's worthless.

 

[sm]

Carl,

The bottom line is too many folks put too much stock in physical things to keep them safe now-a-days.

I remember the days before THE Great Equipment Race.
Folks had skill sets, the ability to think, figure out and be self reliant.

Now one can buy skill, targets, and safety. Hell the Magic Talisman will keep evil away, and if...if evil should show up, the Gun, Knife, or whatever else physical object will Magically take care of it.

Now one still "has to have" the latest greatest knife.
It has to be a Super Steel that costs a helluva lot of money and the edge has to be sharpened to the nth degree and mirror polished so it can shave hair off a gnat's arse.

<spit>
Like hell it does!

I walked off from Competition , burned my sanctioned cards and me and mine left when the The Great Equipment Race come to be. Screw 'em! Those folks were not responsible firearm or knife owners and they can eat fish heads and rice!

I have nothing against folks having nice things and using them. Don't BS me and blow smoke up my arse.

I know all too damn well what a Trapper will do, in a defensive situation.
I know all too damn well what a rusty steel beer can will do.

I do not fear the person with a high dollar knife with a mirror edge, the hi-cap new gun on the block with the exotic ammo, and the rest of his/her TGER gear.
Except to say , I do not want them anywhere around me, "putting on the Ritz" as them crazy folks will get one pegged, hurt and killed!

I have not stayed in a place with 4 gals dressed like "gun" or "gun instructors" as they advertised so bad!
I mean I and my party left , as if I were a crook, I for sure would shoot them four strawberry blonds gals right off the bat, before I arm robbed the joint!


Now that sumbitch with a screwdriver, Chinese knock off knife, kitchen knife, or that gal with cheap letter opener, nail file or bright orange box cutter with the intent of doing me harm, with street savvy is the one I fear!

I want the person with a well Model 10 or Detective Special, with a $20 drug store cane, and some slipjoint watching my six.
This person has become one with the streets, is savvy, and has skill sets derived from being on the streets, from seeing "cell college" and has instincts.
They have quality practice with the mind, thinking along with the tools they have on person and whatever is around them.


Give me $5 and 5 minutes in a dollar store and I will come out with more than 2 defensive weapons.
Last time, I came out with 4.

That $1 serrated knife, with a decent guard and rubber grip, went to the bone on a picnic ham and made some real nasty cuts.

Broom , bottle of water, a carbinger with some heavy child's toy truck on a cord, were the other four items.

That metal truck, on that cord took chunks out of dry wall, and busted apples, and melons.

JShirley needs one of these toy trucks, he would fully appreciate it.
(I've not seen anymore, but I do recall how they were made).

 

[Eleven Mike]

Since this is a NON FIREARMS WEAPONS FORUM, I'm talking about the WEAPONS aspect of the thing.

In that case, you should have said so. So far as I've seen, the knife threads in this forum are overwhelmingly concerned with the "tool" aspect of knives. Regardless what the forum's name might be, we would have been foolish to assume you were only talking about a knife's value as a weapon. Especially when you started off talking about hunting and survival knives. Then you tell us that you don't need those, because a cheap knife can be used to kill someone.

Really confusing first post.

So-called "tactical" knives are marketed as such because their primary purpose is fighting...anyone who thinks people buy tactical knives primarily because they like apples and hate strings is probably incorrect

No, their primary purpose is not fighting. That's not what their designers/makers expect them to be doing. That's not what most customers envision as their primary purpose.

It simply is the case that the "tactical knife" has replaced the traditional pocket knife for many people. Few people buy them with self-defense as a main concern. They like the one-hand opening feature. Or they like the fact that the blade locks. But those features are as good for "tool" use as for weapon use. They might even like the fact that they are more weapony than a Case. But that doesn't mean they are being purchased as fighting knives.

 

[Mongrel]

I was gonna back out quietly until I saw this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by conwict
So-called "tactical" knives are marketed as such because their primary purpose is fighting...anyone who thinks people buy tactical knives primarily because they like apples and hate strings is probably incorrect

No, their primary purpose is not fighting. That's not what their designers/makers expect them to be doing. That's not what most customers envision as their primary purpose.

ElevenMike, with all due respect, just a couple comments on that...

I've got Tactical Knives magazines going back to like 1995 and they cover just about every one-handed clip-on blade made under the sun and every fixed blade from a $6 Opinel to those $600 Randalls. *Every* article mentions the self-defense aspect of them all. Sure, they may talk about cutting "fir strips" but somewhere along the line is a paragraph or more about how it would work for fighting\defending. So, even if it's not a knifes primary purpose, it sure enters into the equation.

Secondly, while I agree that *most* users may not buy a specific knife with fighting in mind-many do. It may be a simple "could I defend myself with this?" or "man I KNOW I can defend myself with this-and it will probably cut open a box or two along the way. And to say "That's not what their designers/makers expect them to be doing" doesn't really show the whole picture. "Tactical" knives are specifically marketed as such, and makers like Emerson have built an entire dynasty on that foundation. These makers *know* that this type of knife sells. Now, maybe it's all smoke and mirrors but it surely seems like they know what they are doing and that they are designing knives to work as fighting knives and to appeal to people on the "tactical" level.

Now, I'm not talking about knives that happen to have a clip and a hole or other one-handed convenience. I am specifically talking about knives that carry the word "TACTICAL" on them somewhere. Whether by design or by marketing a "TACTICAL" knife is just that-tactical (i.e.-fight worthy).

I remain thankful that there are plenty of good knives with clips and holes that aren't marketed as "tactical". Because to be honest, most tactical knives don't fit my needs and I have found that "tactical" winds up being "impractical".

Take care,

Mongrel

 

[hso]

I'm okay if you're okay.

Carl,

We're good.

********************

LEOs tell me that more people are killed and injured with cheap knives from Big Box Mart World stores every year than any other type of knife there is. Might be because they're cheap to the point of being disposable or that folks in lower economic groups also have the higher violent crime rates and that's what they can afford, but it doesn't mean those knives may not stab adequately in a pinch. Pick one that's sturdy and take a little time putting an edge on them and they'll cut/slash too. If they're not expected to do those things for hundreds of repetitions or stand up to impact on bone they don't need to have the same quality and cost of an expensive knife (nor the ridiculously expensive ones) to kill and maim. It's certainly not difficult to get something much better than them for not a whole lot more and not have to make the choice between a car payment and ordering a knife.

OTOH, if the knife is expected to be used with more skill than a prison shiv issues like balance, strength, sharpness, point of percussion and ... come into play. Of course, hardly anyone actually uses a knife like that except in practice any more than most folks use their SUVs to carry the springbok back to camp from the hunt through lion country. The lineage, design and quality may be there, but the thing is almost never going to be called upon to perform that way. It's more for show even if it will go.

If one of our folks finds themselves without the high dollar folding/fixed blade they ordered from TacTiKewlBarn.com because they couldn't carry it on the plane and were afraid to pack it in their luggage for fear someone would spirit it out of the bag, they can get themselves down to Big Box Mart World and grab a cheap fillet/chef's knife and be fairly confident that it'll do the job. Once. Heck, grab a roll of duct tape and make a sheath with the packaging and stick it in your back pocket like SM has described over and over again. Rather that it do the job and not have a chance of bending/folding up if it hits a rib or jacket. Get a Chicago Cutlery piece for a couple bucks more. Want a folder instead? They can just walk over to the Sporting Goods section and pick any of the name brand folding knives there and they'll do (and for fraction of the cost of the knife on the cover of Tactical Blade Illustrated Tm).

Knives in the US are mostly hype for what they get used for, but then you get what you pay for and if you want to pay more you can get more than you'll ever need.

Knives as tools are different only in where "cheap" ends and inexpensive begins. A $12 Mora will do most jobs better than a big tactical will. OTOH, a cheap Big Box Market World knife won't hold a candle to Mora. Better features cost more, but that $12 Mora has a blade that will do 80% of what any knife will do. In defense of more expensive knives, my wife borrowed my Sebenza near sunset and I found out she wanted it to cut chicken wire to get an errant chick out from between two layers of wire. After not finding the wire snips in the barn I told her to go ahead. I figured I'd just sharpen it. Apparently there wasn't any need since it just cut the daylights out of me while I was sharpening what I assumed would be a dull knife. I didn't expect any nicks or chips out of the blade since I've used/abused this knife hard for years and know what it can take, but I figured it would be dulled more from cutting 6 inches of chicken wire than it was. Just a bounce while talking to the dog and I've got a nice 2" gash on the back of my left hand. I know that there are plenty of knives that will take an edge and hold it and won't chip/crack from normal use that cost a 10th of this Sebenza, but I also know that you can't get many knives that will handle what it will tolerate for that price. For 20% of what I paid for it, probably.

 

[The Tourist]

Tactical knives exist because of one reason, that is "romance."

In every man is a iron-willed operator, walking tall and taking no quarter. Every time he straps on a weapon, it might be his last...

...and a lot of other BS they want you to imagine in an effort to sell knives.

I like knives, I sell knives, and I collect knives. But here's a dirty little secret.

In the four years I went to high school (some biographies claim seven years) I carried a six inch stiletto. No knife fights.

From 1969 until 1974 I was a daily customer of Joey's Anchor Inn, The Ideal Bar or The Wisconsin Inn. Each night perhaps half of bikers carried Buck 110's, and so did equally as many citizen patrons in the trades. No knife fights.

If you mix that many angry young men, that much liquor, that much angst and those tawdry conditions for over a nine year period, and you still can't produce a knife fight, nothing will.

The real problem is knife attacks. To my knowledge from police, the most common knife used in a knife attack is a steak knife from a Chicago Cutlery set, not a razzamatazz "tactical knife."

 

[Dirty Bob]

I carry semi-custom knives simply because I like to make them (often from someone else's blades, although I've made a few from scratch, including the kiridashi that hangs from my neck as I type this). I get pleasure from a unique tool that I made myself.

That said, the base blades that I start with seldom are expensive. A great source for blades is Mora knives.

For pure function, I've gotta agree with Carl. I use Moras, Opinels, Gerbers, Kershaws, Bokers, and the Benchmade Red line knives. One great thing about inexpensive carry knives is that if a friend or relative really likes one, I can give it to them and replace it easily. It's surprising how many people consider Mora and Opinel to be "upscale!"

As far as a weapon, many of the knives over $25 are a study in diminishing returns, at least in their lethality. Each dollar doesn't make it a more effective weapon.

What I can't argue against is the pleasure of owning and using a fine knife, and in that sense I 100% understand folks who buy Zero Tolerance, upper end Benchmades, or custom knives. Even though I understand it, I'm not willing to spend $100+ on a knife. I find myself buying more ammo or beer instead.

Regards,
Dirty Bob

 

[Mongrel]

Confessions of a Knife Knut...

I just spent a good part of the day photographing my knives for Ebay.

To be honest someone like me had no business collecting that many knives in the first place. I literally have gone into debt and even borrowed money from people to feed my knife lust. And I'm talking blue-collar knives (the most I've paid for a single knife is $275.00). No Sebenzas or Busse knives here.

Boxes of knives that have never been carried, bayonets that I'll never use, choppers, slicers, dicers, fighters, pens and pockets. Did I mention machetes? Autos? Two unopened Dyads, a Benchmade Spike that I've only used for opening letters.

Gentlemen, this is madness! :banghead:

I would look in the drawer and think "I should take out that Spyderco G10 flat ground Police Model today". NO WAY-I may want to sell it! How about that Greco Kukri-NO WAY I may want to sell it! On and on down the line. Brand new Kershaw Chives (doesn't everyone have two?). Why in the world would someone NOT use a $30 Kershaw? Gerber Covert-geez don't carry that one, you may scratch the clip, then no one will want to buy it!

Gentlemen, this is madness! :banghead:

24 Grecos! Yes-24 unused Grecos! Ever seen a Greco? You can open the roof of a car up with one (Tactical Knives proved that lol). What the heck am I gonna do with them? Better yet-what would my wife and kids do with them if I croaked tonight? Exactly where does a middle aged overweight suburbanite carry an 18" long La Duena'? To the grocery store? On a hike through Yellowstone? What is this-Raiders of the Lost WalMart?

Gentlemen-this has been my madness...:banghead:



ahh...that's better

Why in the world did I do that?



OH yea...

So with all of these unused knives what the heck do I use?...

Ancient Old Timer-ULSTER 580T. I could probably do some of that surgery that 'sm' wrote about up the thread a bit with this penknife. My father smoked enough cigerettes (Lucky Strikes I think?) back in the day that he got us both one. I was seven. I lost it once for several years and found it in a coat pocket or something. I may take this one into the casket with me. He's 70 and still has his as well. (Of course the blades look like an Exacto knife blades now).

Spyderco Copilot-My 'work' blade. I work in a school so 'tactical' is out. Copilot works great on boxes and it's especially good on the banding that holds stuff to pallets. I I will say that this is a very awkward blade design for cutting a lot of different things. To offset this I use the smaller blade of a mulitool (which unfortunately are usually crappola).

Benchmade Mini-TSEK-I actually prefer it to my Mini-AFCK. The blade shape works better for me because it has more belly. My 'all round' folder. I retired a Spyderco Native in favor of this, broke my heart to do it too. The Native was a really good looking knife. (The Natives blade was just too impractical for me).

Victorinox Swisstool-Have other multitools, this just happens to be the one I'm using now.

Gerber-don't remember what model. Has an aluminum handle with rubber inserts ( I ripped half of them off because it interfered with getting the thing out of my pocket). This is my beater, bought it for $11.00 at a Lowes on clearance. Came with a little diamond sharpener do-hickey (works well for fish hooks). I've seen this model sell for $30 elsewhere, so I guess I done good. Took the clip off of it 'cause it was still hanging up on the pocket.

Old Camillus 'KABAR' pattern fixed blade-cost me $10 at a flea market about 20 years ago. Until I read that it was obsolete, this was my go-to 'big' knife. Still is-she definately aint no drawer queen!

18" Military Machete (Ontario)-I use this for anything too big for my KABAR. I've taken down a few 4" oaks with it and it will eat anything smaller with ease. The only issue is with pines, as the blade is so thin it will get hung up in the soft sticky wood.

Small hand axe-I have no idea, my father in-law gave it to me.

Small (30" maybe?) band saw-again, it was a gift. Sure tears up trees and logs though.

Looking ahead? I have a couple SAKs on the way for me and my daughters to learn knifecraft with. And the latest Victorinox models with the 'hole' look like a great all-around solution to the convenience in a non-threatening package factor. I especially like the look of their 'Rescue' model.
That about covers it I guess...and since this is a 'Weapons' forum, I assure you from personal experience (just look at my hands ) that anyone of the above will cut you.

For what it's worth-I don't fault anyone or harbor any ill-will toward anyone who carries, uses, or collects high-end stuff of any kind. I have absolutely ZERO issues with the fact that there are great quality knives out there in as many different shapes and sizes as you can imagine. I really don't. I would love to be able to *comfortably* use a $400 folder. But I can't. It's certainly not your fault, and it isn't really anyone's fault. It's just the "way it is". And you know what-I'm thankful that we can find common ground in this thing no matter what the economics of it may be.

 

[conw]

Wow, I've just got to write a reply - I haven't even read all the new posts. This forum is great. In the words of one Bald Bob, err Robert Hairless, this place has solid character...
The Tourist wrote:

If you work hard you should get to splurge. However, I did not want to publicize my choices as an indictment of folks who can't/won't do the same.

Hey Tourist, I agree completely. Heck, to some degree I find your hard-won collection (and particularly skills) envious. But clearly by the way you post, and live, you are completely different from the type of person Carl mentioned. If I wanted, Google would help me dredge up some kind of post like sm was talking about ("Majic Talismans" etc) but we all know what he means...and that ain't you.

If it weren't for indulgences we'd all be sittin' around a fire eating wooly mammoth and chanting...wait, that doesn't sound so bad...you get what I mean though

Eleven Mike, respectfully, I echo what Mongrel says.

And I just gotta repeat Tourist again...this belongs in THR's hall of fame:

Tactical knives exist because of one reason, that is "romance."

In every man is a iron-willed operator, walking tall and taking no quarter. Every time he straps on a weapon, it might be his last...

Sadly, it's true.

But let me prove it to ya...plenty of people buy Kershaws with defense in the back of their mind, but Kershaw markets them mostly as "hard use" knives, with AO for people who need AO at the job site.

Contrast that with the truly "Tactical" line that KAI inc makes, "Zero Tolerance"...(noticing a pattern in the marketing? the main selling point is the bad-assness, the deadly nature of the knife...ZERO TOLERANCE)

 

[conw]

There's a great deal of irony in the fact that most people here agree that as a weapon, a sharp piece of refuse is as good as a knife; it's the tools that need to be higher-end. I agree.

But the irony lies in the fact that the "Tactical" and "Combat" knives are almost always more expensive...

 

[sm]

At bad breath distance a inexpensive tool, such as a knife, AA Maglite, No. 2 pencil, Bic disposable ink pen and the like is proven.

The Christy Knife, used to be a good tool and if memory serves was about $2 or $3 back in the day.

I was born in the mid 50's and grew up Veterans from previous wars living near, and of course these Vets were everywhere we went.
Many had amputations, or had physical limits.

Polio victims, were another group of folks that had physical limits.

Sure, folks had guns they could use, and while some "had" been quite proficient with a certain make or model of gun, they had to change up and learn again.

IMO/IME
Anyone can rack a slide... I hear folks say.
Listen, maybe a damn Vet, or Mash Nurse does not want to rack the frigging slide as they lost fingers, thumb, part of a hand, the hole hand, the forearm, maybe the whole damn arm up to the shoulder!
Tell you what, when your butt has been in friggin war, then you can spout all this damn wisdom, until then, shut the hell up!

We had crooks back in the day too.
And just like today, crooks look for an easy target, like these Vets.
Bad enough to be a crook, but it takes a really low life sumbitch to go after someone that has been in War, or afflicted due to Polio.

Now not all the folks had a One Arm Jack knife. Many used a small paring knife for EDC.
The Christy knife, while not expensive, was well liked.

It was a small, light weight knife, with a replaceable stainless blade that slide forward from its frame, locked, and could be retracted back with one hand.

At bad breath distance, a tool will beat a gun.
I know of too many instances of this happening.
Crook did not know the person had a Christy knife or that paring knife, until it was "produced".

Like I said, a lot of lessons were passed forward , street savvy lessons back in the day.
We did not have known schools for civilians either.

There is a lot to the saying " necessity is the mother of invention".
WE had folks on budgets, there was not a lot of choices in guns and knives and other equipment either.

Folks did not whine "What are you going to do about it", or "Somebody had to do stuff for girls...".

Folks dealt with it with Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

It was not the tool as much as the folks with grit, gumption and the willingness to survive.

Take a free "church key" ( can opener) and take an eye out of a crook, and he will lose all interest in using that hardware store gun to pull a lady into the bushes and have his way with her.

We did not have pull top cans, we used can openers on those steel cans.

 

[The Tourist]

When we discuss and debate the dual role that knives portray (weapons and tools) it reminds me of an opinion my Father had.

For 42 years my Dad was the senior engineer for The Master Lock Company. And while many people are familiar with their padlocks, very few know about the security projects they did for the military (especially the Navy) and how the research filtered down to the daily domestic consumer.

As a boy, my Dad told me he saw the last of the horse-drawn fire engines. And as a man he witnesses the atomic bomb, the breaking of the sound barrier and men on the moon.

But in all of that history, my Father made this observation, "When mankind discovers a new breakthrough, the first thing he will do is make a weapon or a toy."

In that scheme of things, we have improvements in metallurgy, CAD designing and even a resurrection in the art that defines the way I sharpen a blade.

So it comes as no surprise to me that with those advances mankind makes a better shiv and the marketing departments paint a better fantasy. The weapon and the toy.

I didn't care for my Dad much, he was not a particularly warm human being, as is the flaw in all engineers. But I do find that most of the silly editorials he did on modern man have been unshakeable standards for my life. The best tool I can refine is just some sot's answer to killing.

 

[Defensory]

I don't own ANY knives at the current time, so I believe I can address this topic in a less biased manner than some here.

I could honestly CARE LESS if somebody wants to spend five hundred dollars or five dollars on a knife. It's not any of my business.

As far as I'm concerned, if somebody wants to buy a five hundred dollar knife, and that knife gives him the pride of ownership and confidence to go out and get some professional training in knife fighting/self-defense---MORE POWER TO HIM!

If you've ever attended some firearms defense courses/seminars run by top PROFESSIONALS who know what they're doing---you'll find that virtually all of the instructors and students will be using QUALITY weaponry.

Not everybody will have 3500.00 Wilson custom 1911's, but you'll see VIRTUALLY NOBODY there with trash guns like Low-Points and Kel-Wrecks.

The same goes for knife training. The PROFESSIONAL instructors and serious students don't use two dollar plastic handle kitchen knives that will break easily and quickly.

Buy whatever floats your boat, that you can afford. If you really like a five hundred dollar knife, and it won't break your bank account---GO FOR IT. If it's a little rich for your budget, there are fifty dollar knives that will serve you well.

But don't fall for the mantra of the envious Lilliputians who can't afford a nice knife, thus they try to convince you that a 2.00 plastic kitchen knife from Family Dollar Store is "just as good" as anything else.

There's a happy in between when purchasing both knives and firearms. Stay away from 2.00 knives and 100.00 handguns, but don't feel you have to spend 500.00 on a custom knife, or 3500.00 on a custom handgun.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Mongrel,

Now, I'm not talking about knives that happen to have a clip and a hole or other one-handed convenience. I am specifically talking about knives that carry the word "TACTICAL" on them somewhere.

I apologize, then. I was thinking of the "tactical folder," which usually applies to any knife with a stud or hole, clip, and locking blade. Even my CRKT Bwana would be called a tactical knife, by most, even though it is designed for hunting.

And I would certainly agree that most of the tactical knives (by your definition) are less than practical.

 

[The Tourist]

I don't own ANY knives at the current time

Then let me impart this bit of wisdom. It is said that the swarf on the hands of a tinker is akin to the soot on the hands of a chimney sweep. Good luck will rub off on a handshake.

Taking that into consideration, would it be possible to show you a line of cutlery that you never knew existed, but I do offer assurance that you cannot live without...