The Vaunted Mauser Action
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Maverick223
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I am pretty sure that there are no "competition grade" Mausers, but just look at the FNH SPRs, which are closely based upon the Mauser action. They can hang in with the best of 'em. In this case it has more to do with tight tolerances and precision manufacturing than it does design. The Mauser action doesn't not typically exhibit this feature, furthermore the usual large clearance between parts aid in reliability, which is a big selling point for the Mauser.
..."And unlike the Mannlicher-Schoenauer (a much smoother action BTW), it does not have a funky rotary magazine."...
the smoothest/slickest/fastest bolt i have ever manipulated was a steyr (manlicher) ssg PII. same had a rotary 5 shot, or column 10 shot magazine option. the rotaries are prefered by most for reliability.
jkingrph,
well by that definition, the UK nuetered version "manually-operated-semiauto" AR15 is a mauser action also?
gunnie
the smoothest/slickest/fastest bolt i have ever manipulated was a steyr (manlicher) ssg PII. same had a rotary 5 shot, or column 10 shot magazine option. the rotaries are prefered by most for reliability.
jkingrph,
well by that definition, the UK nuetered version "manually-operated-semiauto" AR15 is a mauser action also?
gunnie
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Jim Watson
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Well, sort of. They are essentially Winchester Model 70 actions, which I listed as a second generation Mauser derivative, by way of the Springfield.
desidog
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This thread sucks without pictures of bolts & actions. Here's some poor shots i just took of my examples; which are not standard examples, both having been extensively re-worked guns, and the other left-handed. At top, a professionally bubba'd Enfield, Santa Fe Model 1944 from Golden State Arms, (for comparison purposes a No4mk2 with the rear sight bridge ground off along with the stripper guide). It was rusty as anything when i got it, and i hit it with some Laurel Mountain browning solution from a BP project. Middle is a Spanish FR-7, with a small-ring 1893/1916 Mauser action: this type preceded the '98 model, with one less lug on the bolt. And the bottom is a Left Handed Winchester Model 70, so everything is in mirror image.
Maverick223
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True, but I consider the M-70 action to be very close, as most changes are exclusive of the basic action design (most are in the fire control, safety, et cetera), so it is a good pattern for what a Mauser could be made to do if the effort was put into it. A slow lock time is the biggest detriment to the Mauser action, and this too could be (and in some cases has been) improved.
I am talking about comp rifles built off Mauser actions.
That is a rifle I have been wanting.
As is was originally built for battle and not civilian uses they have to be tough and reliable, and because they were to be used hard and put away wet (quite literally in many cases) they had to have somewhat loose tolerances to work in variable circumstances.
It is a superb design, even by today's standards. But it is no longer the best.
Maverick223
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Agreed, at least for most tasks (DG being the exception for the reasons you listed above).
KodiakBeer
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None of the modern sporting rifles I own are as smooth and slick as the old sporterized Mauser that I've owned for 35 years. That rifle has a 1939 action.
I suspect there are Mausers and Mausers... A war built Mauser action might be entirely functional, but probably not as slick as an earlier action. Most of those pre-war actions disappeared into the surplus market 40 years ago.
Does it really matter? Probably not. Most sporting rifles built today are good actions. They are not "buttery smooth" out of the box, but they slick up pretty good with use and are strong and safe. I'm more concerned about the trigger, length of pull and general "fit" of the rifle than its action type.
I suspect there are Mausers and Mausers... A war built Mauser action might be entirely functional, but probably not as slick as an earlier action. Most of those pre-war actions disappeared into the surplus market 40 years ago.
Does it really matter? Probably not. Most sporting rifles built today are good actions. They are not "buttery smooth" out of the box, but they slick up pretty good with use and are strong and safe. I'm more concerned about the trigger, length of pull and general "fit" of the rifle than its action type.
twkremer
Member
Why no sporting love for the mosin-nagant action? Don't believe I've ever run a smoother action than my original, straight-bolt 91/30. I've even had the opportunity to fire a les bare custom bolt action about a month ago, and it wasn't as smooth as that old fart in the closet.
thanks for the pics desidog. I noticed that one of those handles is bent while the other two are more or less straight. Does the shape of the handle make much difference?
And re: Mosin Nagant... was that used in war; did it start in war? How is the Mosin Nagant action different from the Mauser and Enfield actions?
Thanks to all. These things are pretty complex.
And re: Mosin Nagant... was that used in war; did it start in war? How is the Mosin Nagant action different from the Mauser and Enfield actions?
Thanks to all. These things are pretty complex.
dirtyjim
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my mannlicher schoenauer 1903 is slicker and faster than my mausers & my lee speed is faster than my mausers but i wouldn't build a 375 h&h or a 500 jeffery on a m-s or a lee enfield.
one of the reasons military mausers work so well is the feed rails and the magazines are cartridge specific & most sporters work well since 90% of the cartridges out there are based on the 8mm & 7mm mauser.
there are competition grade mausers.
voere K98 match rifle scroll to bottom of page
the GOL-SNIPER by Gottfried Prechtl golmatic
the zastava has a pair of mauser match rifles that i hope get importerd real soon.
the zastava-arms M07 7.62 mauser sniper rifle
zastava-arms LM 808 sporting rifle
the slow lock time on a military mauser can be considerably reduced. the mark x speedlock system works well.
one of the reasons military mausers work so well is the feed rails and the magazines are cartridge specific & most sporters work well since 90% of the cartridges out there are based on the 8mm & 7mm mauser.
there are competition grade mausers.
voere K98 match rifle scroll to bottom of page
the GOL-SNIPER by Gottfried Prechtl golmatic
the zastava has a pair of mauser match rifles that i hope get importerd real soon.
the zastava-arms M07 7.62 mauser sniper rifle
zastava-arms LM 808 sporting rifle
the slow lock time on a military mauser can be considerably reduced. the mark x speedlock system works well.
desidog
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All three have some curve, the FR7 has the most bend. When you cycle the bolt on each rifle, the bolt handle is taking a slightly different route to the locked position - this is because the actions were designed with the lock-up happening at slightly different angles. Its not a good or bad thing necessarily, just nuances that evolved due to the overall designs: ie how the system locks up and how many lugs do the locking, etc.
The one that is more or less straight, the (recently made) M70 bolt, actually uses the base of the bolt-handle as a locking point, unlike the other two.
The difference is mainly seen in the side of the stock, and how big a relief cut must be in there for the handle to clear - on the FR-7 the handle goes around the stock, while on the m70 the handle goes through it, relatively speaking.
From a use standpoint, the Fr-7 is the worst (and oldest) design because the bent bolt handle obscures your view while cycling a round.
XxWINxX94
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The mauser is very smooth, reliable and so good that the M1903 Springfield is based off of it. The Enfield is a little different in a few aspects. I, personally like the Enfield better, but the Mauser is probably what made the Bolt-rifle famous.
desidog
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Here are some pictures of the bolt locked - the top is the the FR7, the bottom the Enfield.
This is a lefty Montana 99 action (a Winchester Model 70)..but you can see it better since there's a scope in the way on my m70, and this one has weaver bases and no scope.
Mauser was in the process of suing the US for ripping off his 1898 design with the 1903, but the war made all German legal claims void in the USA....shady gov't moves happened back then too...definitely patent infringement.
As to Mauser vs. Enfield; if you look at the Boer War as an example, where Mausers in the hands of Boers were pitted against redcoats and SMLE's, i recall that the combatants were generally in favor of the Mauser, which the Boers bought privately, unlike the Brits being issued the Enfields.
/I'm no expert, just an enthusiast.
This is a lefty Montana 99 action (a Winchester Model 70)..but you can see it better since there's a scope in the way on my m70, and this one has weaver bases and no scope.
Mauser was in the process of suing the US for ripping off his 1898 design with the 1903, but the war made all German legal claims void in the USA....shady gov't moves happened back then too...definitely patent infringement.
As to Mauser vs. Enfield; if you look at the Boer War as an example, where Mausers in the hands of Boers were pitted against redcoats and SMLE's, i recall that the combatants were generally in favor of the Mauser, which the Boers bought privately, unlike the Brits being issued the Enfields.
/I'm no expert, just an enthusiast.
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