Things are tough all over...

[JoshM]

Stellarpod, "Demo days". Cool idea, like a mini Shot Show in your own town

1, Support Gun Ownership

If the customers are members of Local/National gun rights group then the owner and staff should be too.

There is a local gun store I never use, because the owner remarked to me, that the nation's most vocal and effective gun rights organization was too "extreme" and "no body really needs one of those black semi auto's anyway".

Meanwhile, stacked behind the elderly owner was a collection of Browning BAR's, Mossberg 500's, Remington 870's, and Benelli riot guns.

2, A little bit of separation.

I love rugby and fishing as much as the next guy, but try and keep the tackle and rugby balls in another room or partitioned off from the guns.

 

[Ian]

Morgan - I'm at Gunsmoke.

 

[Felonious Monk]

So, Tamara--

When are you opening your Top Notch East TN gunshop, and will you be able to lure Shannon as your head gunsmith?

Apply all of the pertinent suggestions in this thread and it'll be big-time in no-time.

Gonna provide specials to THR/TFL members?

Regards,
FM/Fig

 

[BigG]

When I lived near Clark Bros they had an "HK day" where an HK factory rep had all the toys displayed. You could shoot any of them if you bought the ammo. I shot a PSG-1.

 

[BowStreetRunner]

I would spend at a store that would go out of their way to get what i want...no hassle FFL transfers or ordering me a gun for a fair price
and no BSing!
i dont care if they are dirt cheap i wouldnt want to buy from them if all i got was BS from the staff
now i might buy from them becasue i am poor but eventually that may change
and cater to all kinds of shooters....hunters, mil-surp fiends, competition types, that would make me happy to pay a little more at a gunstore than i could find online
BSR

 

[444]

Don't give opinions on ANYTHING unless asked.
I was in my local gun store about a month ago, and the subject of varmint calling came up. Now I happen to enjoy varmint calling. I don't do a whole lot of it, but I have fun when I do. The two guys working in the store and one of the customers began a long discussion of how it isn't sporting, there is no reason to do it, etc. I am sure that there are lots of varmint hunters that buy stuff at that store. Why make them uncomfortable ? Why make them the object of your ridicule ? If you don't agree with it, fine, keep it to yourself as long as you are in the business. If I want to listen to anti-hunting speeches, I wouldn't normally go to a gun store to hear it.

Don't give advice unless asked/Give the customer what he wants.
This is a lesson I learned as a kid. My best friends dad decided that he wanted a .22 rifle for squirrel hunting. He researched what was available and went to a gun dealer to get it. The gun dealer said, you don't want that, what you want is this......it is cheaper and is more accurate. So he bought one based on the dealers advice. And, he wasn't happy with it at all. To this day he blames that dealer for it. If the dealer would have kept his opinions to himself and got the guy what he wanted, the buyer would have no one to blame but himself.

Don't allow you own personal interests to dominate your business unless you have enough like minded shooters to support your business.
We used to have a nice gun shop here in town. He had a variety of stuff. You could sit in there and discuss pretty much anything. I went there all the time and spent a lot of money in there. A couple years ago, the dealer became interested in Cowboy Action Shooting. Now, the vast majority of stuff he has in the store is cowboy action gear. He has now alienated the vast majority of his customers because MOST of his customers have no interest in cowboy action shooting. There are maybe a dozen local guys into it. In additon, if you hang out in the store, all that is discussed is cowboy action shooting, so I don't go there anymore. I have purchased cast bullets from him for years. I have shot tens of thousands of cast bullets from him. I went in there the other day and asked him why he no longer had 158 grain SWC .357" bullets ? He said, the only people that buy cast bullets are cowboy shooters. Well that might be because you quit carrying anything but cowboy bullets. He sold tons of bullets before he ever heard of cowboy action shooting.

 

[El Tejon]

Treat it as a business, a way to make money, scads and scads of money, not your personal hobby.

 

[Keith]

Find a niche.

Wally World not carrying milsurp? Order a truckload of Enfields, Moisin Nagants, CZ 52's, Argy Brownings, etc; and the ammo to feed them.
How about milsurp ammo in standard calibers? You'll never see those "battle packs" of NATO surplus .308, 5.52, 9mm, etc, in Wally World.

And how about all those new models that come out every year? - Wally World won't be carrying them until some market analysis is done two years after the fact. So get some examples of those Valtro gubmints, 17 HMR's and (whatever) in to show people.

And how about all the established companies that the big boys don't carry? You'll never see a CZ firearm in Wally World - order some of their rifles and handguns. Order up some of those very nice (and inexpensive) Baikal shotguns. Thumb through any wholesalers catalog and you'll find dozens of other good firearms that the big boys won't carry.

Did I say "find a niche" - hell, create a niche! I'd break into a sweat if I walked into a gun store that carried firearms and ammo like I've named above!

Keith

 

[Futo Inu]

Agreed, Tam, on all counts.

And, just flat out have people available to answer questions (with an agreeable attitude, no less) and let me fondle (the guns, not them), instead of having to wait 10 minutes for a clerk to get free. Carry reloading equipment and milsurps, yep.

 

[Big_R]

The only thing I buy from the big discount stores is shotgun ammo. I buy everything else from Little Crow Sports in Hutchinson MN or Franks Custom Guns in Winsted MN. Things I like:

You are encouraged to handle everything.
Good reloading supplies including once fired brass from other customers.
Willing to deal on purchase and trade.
Honest about being in business to make money.
The big sign that says "If you don't see it, and it exists, we can get it."
Smoking is permitted (I don't smoke).
Free calendars every January.

Lastly, most of the shoppers at the average gun shop are guys. These shops keep things on hand for their significant others. They always has little things around to give to new customers, or current customer's wives. The first time my wife (girlfriend) went there, they gave her a Leuopold lapel pin. She's bought two handguns and a shotgun just for her. They also encourage people to bring in the kids and keep some candy there for them.

Ryan

 

[Oracle]

1. Treat you customers like they are doing you a favor by patronizing your establishment, not like you are doing them a favor by selling them something.

2. Do transfers for cheap, meaning $20 or less. None of this "10% of the price of the firearm" bs. What does it cost you, 37 cents for a stamp and a nickel for the copy of your FFL? People who want you to do transfers usually buy guns and accessories on a regular basis, so that's an excellent way of getting people to come back for more.

 

[Quartus]

Doesn't have to be super-spacious or super-clean,

Agreed, but it can't be a pig sty, either. Nobody is offended if the place is clean. "Cleanies" will appreciate it and "messies" won't notice.

But PLENTY of us would be offended if we got yelled at or even glared at for smudging the glass doors of a cabinet.

 

[jsalcedo]

My favorite gun shop gives my kid a handful of candy to keep him occupied while I look at different rifles and pistols.

Very smart. The other gunshops give me dirty looks for bringing him.

 

[bogie]

1) Make the place comfortable, with knowledgeable, and well-rounded, staff. If I'm spending a few hundred bucks on stereo gear, I want to twiddle with the knobs first. And I want the salesman to be able to answer questions. Same with a gun.

2) Wide range of choices - impulse-purchase-level .22s up through match-grade stuff. Stuff for duck hunters, skeet shooters, and the 98 pound female critter who wants a shotgun cuz her ex won't let go.

3) Nice variety of ammo - whatever you need to buy to get good prices from the big guys, but also whatever surplus stuff you see...

4) A "back room" that's open for folks to clean stuff, tinker with stuff, whatever. Just so long as it won't cut into the...

5) On-site generalist gunsmith. GENERALIST. And don't be afraid to send stuff out to specialists.

6) Weed out sexists/racists/loonies from both your staff and your customers. Yeah - you might have to fire a few customers. You don't want some minority female in the place lookin' to buy some personal protection, and have Bubba wander up to her, tell her how she really needs a Homeboy special, if she, bein' a little lady and all, can handle it, and then regale her with the story of the time he fought off the space aliens who were tryin' ta probe him armed with nothing but a .44 magnum... (actually ran into a guy working a pro-gun politician's booth who after a minute or three switched into "and the time I got abducted by aliens..." mode...)

6a) Don't hire folks based only on their military/police service - that don't make 'em experts.

7) Gun games make people shoot a LOT of ammo. And folks always want the latest toys that the next guy has - and if you've got a world-class shooter, take care of him, because people will follow him.

8) You're not gonna make money on guns. Accept that. Let your customers know _all_ the prices on 'em - what you pay, how much you're gonna mark it up, etc. That'll impress 'em. You'll make some money on ammo, and a lot more on the accessories.

9) Stock reloading stuff - sure, those guys won't be buying the $20/package factory hunting rounds, but they'll likely be buying the $15/package boxes of bullets, the $18/pound powder, the $20/thousand primers, and all the brass they can scrounge... Yeah, you save money handloading... right...

10) On-site indoor range, preferably with near access to an outdoor range.

11) Classes - not just in the latest tacticality, but in fundamentals, in handloading, whatever...

12) Free location for RKBA activism meetings.

 

[bogie]

But PLENTY of us would be offended if we got yelled at or even glared at for smudging the glass doors of a cabinet.

ALWAYS windex all glass surfaces before going home every night. That way, if you get broken into, you'll be more likely to have usable fingerprints for the cops to go on.

 

[Nando Aqui]

Tamara - Agree with what you said, and with some of the others, but not all.

El Tejon alluded to treating the shop like a business, not as a hobby. This is right on and critical.

I don't know how many times I have gone into gun shops (other than my favorite; below) and other similar stores, such as 'specialized' hobby shops (R/C equipment) only to find several guys sitting on STOOLS drinking coffee and shooting the S__T with the attendants while I wait, and wait, and wait, to be helped.

Nothing wrong with establishing a nice raport with the clients; but keep the conversations brief, and by all means, don't allow personal stories and anecdotes to interfere with quick and efficient service to the other (real?) customers.

My favorite store is Mike's Guns, in St. Charles, MO. It is a small, clean and simple shop- yet he has an excellent selection of new and used firearms. Best of all - no B.S. of any kind, and he and those who work there know their business. His prices are always very fair if not down right low. Transfer fees? $20.

What don't I buy at Mike's? Some parts and accessories that are more difficult to get and surplus ammo that I buy by the 1000's.

Alex

 

[bogie]

Where's Mike's?

FWIW, I won't go to... dang, I don't even remember the name of the joint - they used to be down in the city, I think on Park, then moved out to St. Chuck/St. Pete, just off the highway. They run "book" tables at gun shows, and keep selling stuff like the Turner Diaries, etc... So I don't patronize 'em, and I told 'em why...

 

[Hillman]

Allow CCW.

Sure enough, there's a store around here that I used to go to. Nice selection, helpful staff. Has one of the best ventilated indoor ranges around with a good selection of rental pieces. Prices are comparable to other local gun stores. They host a shooting league.

They even offer CCW courses.

But they do not allow non-LEO CCW in their store.

I can't stop in spur of the moment ... what would I do with whatever I'm carrying? I don't keep a spare case in my car.

And if I go there deliberately, I have to pass by 2 or 3 other local gun stores that respect my 2A rights. So I don't go there on purpose, either.

 

[Sean Smith]

1) Don't try to go head-to-head with Wallyworld and the 'Net on guns & ammo. You ain't gonna outsell Wal Mart on bulkpack Winchester or Remington 700 BDL's, nor Ammoman on cases of South African .223. Stock stuff I want to buy in sub-case quantities right now: defense ammo, oddball military calibers, high-end ammo, and et cetera.

While I wouldn't expect them to be able to keep up with internet cheapo deals, I WOULD expect them to not engage in cosmic-grade ripoffs like charging nearly double the going rate for 10mm Blazers...

2) If anyone behind the counter shows a tendency to BS about their imaginary Vietnam experiences rather than trying to research a factual answer to a question, fire them. Immediately.

Roger that. Nothing worse than an ersatz veteran or a know-it-all who is dumber than flat beer.

3) Hire a good gunsmith. Pay him right, proselytize about his services, and sell a kidney to keep him there, if that's what it takes.

Nice in theory, but the more I learn the more I suspect that many, if not most, gunsmiths are incompetent morons or outright frauds who can stay in business only because most of their customers are dumber than they are. And the good ones can just go into business on their own and get more work than they can stand. So I'm not convinced that this is too practical. Naturally, having a BAD 'smith on the premises will do you worlds of harm, the only upside being that if people want to kill him for breaking their guns, they won't work.

4) Get involved in competitive shooting. These guys spend money; make sure your name is on every one of their lips. Sponsor matches, hand out cards, give away tee-shirts, whatever...

Maybe... I honestly dunno one way or the other here.

5) Stock accessories. Sure, that SureFire fore-end or Ed Brown mainspring housing might be two dollars cheaper someplace online, but being able to fondle it in the store and walk out with it on your gun that very day is worth a couple of bucks.

I'd tend to agree here. It is very nice to be able to actually see the product, and as long as your mark-ups arent psychotic you could sell plenty of stuff. Stuff like stocks, holsters and gunbelts would be especially good.

Create a clean, professional environment that is friendly to EVERYBODY, not just bubba the sub-literate gun nut. Don't hire morons and/or a-holes. Charge prices that aren't psychopathic.

 

[Oracle]

Stock accessories. Sure, that SureFire fore-end or Ed Brown mainspring housing might be two dollars cheaper someplace online, but being able to fondle it in the store and walk out with it on your gun that very day is worth a couple of bucks.

I completely agree on this one. I can usually get things a bit cheaper if I search around online, but I go to Brigade Quartermasters in Kennesaw anyway because I know I can play with it and see if I like it, the sales staff will offer helpful suggestions (usually), and I can take it home and have it in my hot little hands right then, instead of waiting a week. Plus, with shipping, things usually come out even anyway.

 

[444]

Not only that, but there is a concept called the inpuluse buy. My local dealer doesn't understand this at all. He keeps saying that he can get anything you want, if you order it. But he seems to have never walked into a store with a big overtime paycheck in his pocket looking for instant gratification. There are plenty of things that I kinda want, that I would probably buy on impluse if it was right there in front of me; But, I probably wouldn't order it. I sometimes go to another shop about 80 miles away that usually has a decent selection of stuff. I never go there and not spend money, and I have spent thousands on impulse buys because it is sitting right there. Given a day or two to think about it, I probably would either buy something I need worse or put the money in the bank. I was in a gun store in Arizona and spotted one of those super light weight S&W .44 mags. That is a prime example of something that I would probably never order, and probably never spend that kind of money on it, if I really thought about it. But when it was in my hands, I would have bought it in an instant, but luckily I was an out of state resident and could not legally buy it.
My local dealer is probably missing out on doubling his income by not keeping a good inventory.

 

[P95Carry]

You make a good point there 444 ...... I think my current order locally for a P3-AT is the FIRST actual order I have made in ....... well ........ too long to remember.

Other purchases were because ...... the gun was there .... it was on my list ... I could handle it .... and then go limp with total lack of self-discipline!! Walking out with purchase!!

Same thing with a less local store ... they have very good inventory ..... just so happened they had this 9 1./2 tube SRH ..... oh dear ... it was on the list ... and I had to add a red dot too .... damn .... that was costly but ..... I am still pleased.

I guess, in fairness ...... when you consider how much money can be tied up in inventory .... for a small dealer .... there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Awful difficult to have ''one of everything''!

 

[Glamdring]

Big_R: Can you give directions, snail mail, or phone number to those two gunshops? I live about 4 miles north of Howard Lake. I have not heard of those gunshops before and they sound like the kind of place I want to spend my $$$ at.

 

[444]

I certainly don't expect a gun shop to have one of everything, but there are certain basic items that I would think you would have. A wondernine, a 1911, 870 shotguns, .30-06 rifle, .308 rifle, .38 revolver................................. I think you would also be OK buying one of the latest thing out that is under $1000 for inventory.

 

[Navy joe]

Nice in theory, but the more I learn the more I suspect that many, if not most, gunsmiths are incompetent morons or outright frauds who can stay in business only because most of their customers are dumber than they are. And the good ones can just go into business on their own and get more work than they can stand.

Like any other artisans, there are many very good gunsmiths out there that could not maintain a book, self schedule, or deal with counterfront traffic to save their life. You just need to find the right one who understands their shortcomings and take care of him like he takes care of you. "You businessman, me gunplumber"

Monkeyleg, that shop owner was nuts. First off, most competitors have the gun jones bad. They buy lots of other guns that don't get competed with. Second, sell reloading supplies and competition accessories. In the great metropolis I'm in I can't walk in and buy a box of Montana Gold bullets or a CED timer if mine goes TU. Third, I'd guess that about half of club level pistol competitors buy factory ammo. All the rimfire guys buy factory, usually expensive stuff. Lots of it. 4th, competitors should be seen kinda like mid level crack dealers/Amway reps. They bring other newer folks into the store and matches. A healthy competition scene is vital to area shooters and store owners. Sounds like cheesehead just didn't like some competition shooters and adjusted his lack of business accordingly.

I'd add to this list of ideas to be seasonal. Nobody buys blackpowder in the spring or turkey chokes in August. If they are it better be because you put your overstock on sale to get more floor traffic.

-Sponsor a radio ad when the gunshow comes to town.

I like the coffee idea and the LEO discount, improves the atmosphere. If I had a shop I'd like a corner with chairs, gunrags, coffee, and a woodstove just because I remember how General stores used to be, there are a few left like that. Again, train your regulars not to tell war stories, scare away customers and such.

-Not sure the best way how, but reach out to non-traditional markets. Women and minorities often get a cold shoulder in too many shops. I've met a good few safe and enthusiastic gun owners who wore baggy pants. A good start would be to have counter staff that don't all look like Bubba or his cousin.