Things to Not Do

[Balrog]

Not the same as "if...I would have..." That is irresponsible.

Yea agree, gotta hear all the evidence. I was basing it on what was being discussed.

 

[JTHunter]

Maybe something less lethal like pepper spray would have been more appropriate in her situation. Either way, you guys saying that she should have moved away seem to forget that she was loading groceries in her car. Where was she supposed to go? Leave the car? Do y’all really think that?

That's "assault" and possibly "battery" as well.

 

[The Last Outlaw]

That's "assault" and possibly "battery" as well.

If I were her and told him to stop and he kept coming, and I had some pepper spray, I would take my chances. Where I live assault is a misdemeanor, better than a felony charge.

 

[Scrapiron45]

The original post was good as a discussion starter but other than court results gave few details of the actual incident.

Two things I will take from this, the first being that all indications are that the woman couldn't keep her mouth shut and second, if she did hire a competent defense attorney it would seem she didn't follow his advice.

 

[plainsdrifter]

Now if the guy was aggressive and speaking to her in a threatening mean manner I think she could have been in the right. Or certainly if the guy was brandishing a weapon, piece of pipe etc.
I tend to not talk to people in parking lots.

 

[Kleanbore]

Two things I will take from this, the first being that all indications are that the woman couldn't keep her mouth shut and second, if she did hire a competent defense attorney it would seem she didn't follow his advice.

I think that regarding the criminal charge, there was nothing that the defendant said that would have influenced the outcome. Other evidence would most likely have been sufficient.

If I recall correctly, Andrew Branca opined that her press interview in her living room, which reportedly indicated a rather luxurious lifestyle, may have been unhelpful to her civil case.

 

[Kleanbore]

Now if the guy was aggressive and speaking to her in a threatening mean manner I think she could have been in the right. Or certainly if the guy was brandishing a weapon, piece of pipe etc.

Sure.

 

[wayneinFL]

Yes. It may have kept her from a tragic end. She didnt really get any punishment for it. Certainly could have turned out worse for her if she had done nothing.

No punishment? She had to pay for a lawyer. She has a felony arrest and a conviction on her record. Hopefully, they let her plead to a misdemeanor, because if it was a felony, even with a suspended sentence, she loses her right to own a gun and possibly vote.

It's not exactly getting off scot free.

 

[Gordon]

Now if the guy was aggressive and speaking to her in a threatening mean manner I think she could have been in the right. Or certainly if the guy was brandishing a weapon, piece of pipe etc.
I tend to not talk to people in parking lots.

The last time I was set upon was 7 years back when I was only 70 at an isolated ATM after hours at a Wells Fargo bank. A car drove up and a hinky guy got out and walked up behind me at the ATM . When he was 20 feet out, I turned around and said, "Please stay back" . He had his hand behind his back and kept jabbering and coming. I yelled stop in my LEO voice and put my hand on the snubby in my jacket. He started coming closer slowly and had a more aggressive tone. At ten feet out, my hand was on the trigger and tightening. He suddenly noticed my hand in my pocket, and no doubt the bulge directed his way. He backed off screaming loud threats. A car with laughing nasties in it picked him up instantly. I took off and never returned to that place. But like I said I have 50 years of defensive training. If that scene wouldn't fly in court I want to live where it does.

 

[Scrapiron45]

I think that regarding the criminal charge, there was nothing that the defendant said that would have influenced the outcome. Other evidence would most likely have been sufficient.

If I recall correctly, Andrew Branca opined that her press interview in her living room, which reportedly indicated a rather luxurious lifestyle, may have been unhelpful to her civil case

I find it interesting that it's felt the defendants statements would have no Influence on the outcome considering concerns regarding posts made on social media nowadays and recommendations to never make a statement without legal representation.

Not knowing what evidence the video showed or the witness (witnesses?) presented and the womans eagerness to proclaim her innocence I still believe she was probably her own worst enemy.


Good thread.

 

[Kleanbore]

If that scene wouldn't fly in court I want to live where it does.

It should, unless the totality of the evidence contradicted your story.

 

[Kleanbore]

I find it interesting that it's felt the defendants statements would have no Influence on the outcome considering concerns regarding posts made on social media nowadays and recommendations to never make a statement without legal representation.

I cannot see how anything she reportedly said would be taken as incriminating, or how remaining silent might have helped.

I find it interesting that it's felt the defendants statements would have no Influence on the outcome considering concerns regarding posts made on social media nowadays and recommendations to never make a statement without legal representation.

Not knowing what evidence the video showed or the witness (witnesses?) presented and the womans eagerness to proclaim her innocence I still believe she was probably her own worst enemy.

She was--she drew and pointed a firearm when the evidence indicted that doing so was not lawful.

 

[JERRY]

I wonder if she might have been raped, stabbed, kidnapped, or murdered if she had taken a less aggressive approach.

I didnt read through all the posts, so have no idea why someone thought they had a civil case against her. You generally have to show harm to prevail in a civil trial, and I do not see any harm she did. I guess the plaintiff should be happy I was not on the jury.

I also find it ironic that people think that justice is served just because our flawed court system makes a judgment in a case like this. There is not a clear correlation between court decisions and the service of justice.

I have always just been of the opinion that strange men should not surprise women they don't know in a high risk setting like a parking lot. As a result, a woman has never stuck a gun in my face.

Point is.... if you feel threatened enough to draw your gun you better report it to the police asap before the "suspect" does.

 

[Anchorite]

The last time I was set upon was 7 years back when I was only 70 at an isolated ATM after hours at a Wells Fargo bank. A car drove up and a hinky guy got out and walked up behind me at the ATM . When he was 20 feet out, I turned around and said, "Please stay back" . He had his hand behind his back and kept jabbering and coming. I yelled stop in my LEO voice and put my hand on the snubby in my jacket. He started coming closer slowly and had a more aggressive tone. At ten feet out, my hand was on the trigger and tightening. He suddenly noticed my hand in my pocket, and no doubt the bulge directed his way. He backed off screaming loud threats. A car with laughing nasties in it picked him up instantly. I took off and never returned to that place. But like I said I have 50 years of defensive training. If that scene wouldn't fly in court I want to live where it does.

My first thought - and please don’t take this the wrong way as I’m not trying to be difficult or confrontational - but why did you need cash after hours? And why from that particular “isolated ATM?”

What was so important that you couldn’t wait until the next morning in broad daylight to get cash?

As a former LEO, shouldn’t you know better?

 

[Kleanbore]

Point is.... if you feel threatened enough to draw your gun you better report it to the police asap before the "suspect" does.

Absolutely!

But in this case, it appears that, because of other evidence, her goose was already cooked.

 

[Kleanbore]

...why did you need cash after hours? And why from that particular “isolated ATM?”

More things to not do.....

 

[Anchorite]

More things to not do.....

Exactly.

 

[Balrog]

Point is.... if you feel threatened enough to draw your gun you better report it to the police asap before the "suspect" does.

No doubt about that. She should have reported the incident herself. I have heard legal experts give that advice. The first person to report is the default victim unless facts prove otherwise.

 

[Gordon]

My first thought - and please don’t take this the wrong way as I’m not trying to be difficult or confrontational - but why did you need cash after hours? And why from that particular “isolated ATM?”

What was so important that you couldn’t wait until the next morning in broad daylight to get cash?

As a former LEO, shouldn’t you know better?

Because I was depositing $4500 cash in hundreds from fieldwork, I was doing out of my area into my company's Wells Fargo account so we could pay our bills which is nobody's business. I think anyone who questions a person's liberty to function normally in the US is not a person with whom I want to be friends. Sorry, but I think that, and it isn't going to change. Broad daylight would not have mattered, I think, BTW.

 

[Kleanbore]

I think anyone who questions a person's liberty to function normally in the US is not a person with whom I want to be friends.

Discussing thoughts on when it is prudent to go where is an important part of what we do here.

 

[Anchorite]

Because I was depositing $4500 cash in hundreds from fieldwork, I was doing out of my area into my company's Wells Fargo account so we could pay our bills which is nobody's business. I think anyone who questions a person's liberty to function normally in the US is not a person with whom I want to be friends. Sorry, but I think that, and it isn't going to change. Broad daylight would not have mattered, I think, BTW.

Ah, ok, whatever.
I mean, you couldn’t pay those bills after hours.…..
That account for your company wouldn’t be updated from the night drop until the next day anyway……
I’m just thinking what a poor decision you made that put your personal safety at risk when you didn’t have to, but you do you.

 

[Gordon]

Ah, ok, whatever.
I mean, you couldn’t pay those bills after hours.…..
That account for your company wouldn’t be updated from the night drop until the next day anyway……
I’m just thinking what a poor decision you made that put your personal safety at risk when you didn’t have to, but you do you.

I won't live in a world where freedom to act in normal commerce is restricted by fear. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness are the founding principles of this country, after all. Depositing large amounts of daily business cash before spending the night in a seedy Motel 8 falls under that and was a smart move. I brandished on no one and deterred violence.

 

[Gordon]

Discussing thoughts on when it is prudent to go where is an important part of what we do here.

Yes, and you had my sentiments on what your thoughts about it were. Bottom line: No one got brandished, hurt, or police involved, and I practiced my ability to pursue legal commerce and have a safe night's sleep in the seedy environment I was forced to work in.

 

[aaaaa]

Yeah and ask for the ambulance for the stabbed woman who didn't draw .

That's the problem. You can't draw just because someone gets too close, but then they have the advantage if they want to attack.

 

[Gordon]

I think that regarding the criminal charge, there was nothing that the defendant said that would have influenced the outcome. Other evidence would most likely have been sufficient.

If I recall correctly, Andrew Branca opined that her press interview in her living room, which reportedly indicated a rather luxurious lifestyle, may have been unhelpful to her civil case.

"which reportedly indicated a rather luxurious lifestyle."
rather sick that this has any effect on our legal outcome. I guess it's best to eat govt. cheese and sit on packing crates and have the TV tuned to MSNBC the view to have a favorable outcome.