thinking of replacing 5.56mm as my go-to cartridge

[justin22885]

currently, the ammo i buy the most of, to stop up on is .223/5.56.. however, im thinking of replacing the 5.56 in this role.. i think its important of course to keep one rifle that is compatible with 5.56 ammo and AR-15 magazines and i have that rifle (my 5.56 cal AK-74) and will still get a couple others, but im looking at crowning something else as the one i will focus on the most, purchase the most ammo for, reloading supplies, do some load testing with, etc

i want to find something that is better in one or more categories over the 5.56, maybe something that hits harder, penetrates better, retains more energy downrange.. but still in the same size category.. some of the other cartridges to consider.. 7.62x39, 5.45x39, 6.5 grendel, 6.8SPC, and im sure there are others, 5.45x39 would probably take the most convincing for me.. ballistically its not really any different than 5.56 and with the 7N6 importation ban its even harder to convince me to get into it.. im leaning 7.62x39 or 6.5 grendel if theres even still a following for that anymore

anyone else replacing 5.56 as their go-to cartridge/rifle? if you did or have thought about it, what would you switch to, and why?.. and are there any other cartridges i may not be aware of that warrant consideration?

 

[barnbwt]

7.62x45 Look it up

Other than that, something that fits in AK47 mags but is necked down a bit and hotter would be interesting

Good luck,
TCB

 

[hatt]

Why the need to "replace?" Just add something to fill a perceived role. If .223 is too weak I'd go straight to .308.

 

[BigBL87]

Maybe .22-250. Kinda a supercharged .223 in a sense.

Why the need to "replace?" Just add something to fill a perceived role. If .223 is too weak I'd go straight to .308.

Or this

 

[HB]

I have both 7.62x39, 308, and .223 rifles. They all have a niche but more or less overlap to 200 yards. All will kill deer with the correct ammo and are fun to shoot with reasonably priced rounds.


HB

 

[silicosys4]

I will second the .308.
My FAL is heavier but more ballistically capable than my .223's.
It's not as accurate but that's just an AR10 away.

There are a lot of firearm options for the .308 including guns that are in the same weight and size range as many .233's and 7.62x39... components are relatively cheap and easy to find and have many different types of bullets including surplus and pulled and a huge variety of hunting ammunition. Plus once fired fired brass is available by the barrel.

If you are really set on an ar15-specific cartridge, I would look into the .300 blackout or the 6.8.
There are also wildcats of the .223 necked up to .243 and .25 that look really interesting and give a ballistic edge over the .223.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I vote 7.62x39.

It hits decently hard, good up to 200 yards for humane shots at game, and most importantly IT IS CHEAP!!!!!

I have 5.45x39. I would not have purchased my AK74 had there been issues with importation of ammo when I bought it... not that I shoot corrosive ammo, but I like the option.

7.62x51 is pretty cool too. A little too expensive to plink even with cheap ammo, but it has more utility than the x39 round.

I guess it depends if its a more range toy or a hunting toy or a long range toy

 

[bannockburn]

I wouldn't replace my ARs, just supplement them with an AK in 7.62x39.

 

[Mike C2]

I have an AR-10, my first semi-auto rifle. Mostly it rides the safe now, is just so big and bulky compared to the AR-15 platform. The 6.8 SPC is my go to cartridge in a 16" barreled mid-length gas. Hogs shot with 5.56 ran sometimes for hundreds of yards, but with 6.8 are DRT.

I like the 5.56 at the target range, but the 6.8 gets the rack in the jeep. It's a great cartridge.

 

[ID-shooting]

Another vote for 5.56, 7.62x39, and 7.62x51, one or multiple of each. It really is a no-brainer. Just like 9mm and 45ACP. These calibers will be around for a very long time and ammo, when there isn't a panic happening, are everywhere. Even during the height of the panic I was able to buy 7.62x39 regularly and shot it more often than the others.

 

[justin22885]

oh i like .308, have a few on my list and i will be stocking ammo and reloading supplies for it, but i consider that to be in a different class of rifle.. "battle rifle" i guess youd call them.. i'm considering a new standardization in the "assault rifle" category

i dont think the 7.62x45 would work.. i mean, if ammo was available for it, it would be an interesting cartridge but where are you going to find 45mm long brass with an 11.35mm base diameter? chamber reamers to make the barrels? headspacing gauges? seems like a lot of work without much benefit over 7.62x39.. not to mention the COAL would be too long to fit any magazines

anyway, there are a lot of new rifles coming out with an x39 option, including the sig 556 xi russian, galil ACE, and i believe i've read the tavor may offer the option, plus a lot of nice older rifles including the SKS, VZ58, and of course the AK-47/AKM... all of these are a simple conversion to 6.5 grendel as well with little more than a barrel swap

so im looking for options that can easily work with pre-existing 5.56 and x39 actions

guess if i wanted to be nostalgic i could consider the 8mm kurz, common 12mm case head, 8mm bullets, but very limited source of suitable magazines

 

[OilyPablo]

I still have my DD 5.56 AR.

But I went 6.8SPC II for various reasons. I almost went 6.5, but 6.8 ammo is pretty darn available now and increasing every week.

Then 7.62x51for the upper end.

Honestly I REALLY love shooting the 6.8.

 

[Ibmikey]

My LR 308 is a great shooting rifle but much too heavy for lugging around by an old guy. I built several AR's in 300 Blackout and just love the cartridge for supersonic short range work and especially for hog hunting. Using a 125 gr bullet it will knock the socks right off a big boar, yet is versitle enough for plinking or personal defense. As far as stockpiling ammo, I have always kept a thousand or more of each caliber on the shelf, these lean panic years have not affected my shooting program especially with rimfire due to many many thousands in reserve. I shot some LR the other day with .98 cent price tags on the box.

 

[Art Eatman]

"Go to"? For what purpose? Defense? Hunting? Paper-punching/plinking?

 

[highpower]

Why not just keep what you have? If you feel the need for more long range punch, just get something in .308.

By the way, you seem to have run out of capital letters, so here are some for you:

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

 

[Tirod]

After decades of use I abandoned .308. First, I'd done my share of shooting up all the arsenal sell offs as the Free World moved to 5.56. Second, I moved from the larger heavy guns I could tote with some ease when I was 25 to a gun I could carry across rough terrain hunting in my 50's. Despite the catcalls of younger men (who never served,) I know better because I've done it - when you are fully loaded out, the lighter guns are much easier to handle and create less fatigue on 16 hour shifts. That is the real duty cycle of a soldier under arms, if you are awake, you have a rifle in your hands. And the Infantry School does not use slings in the field, neither did most of the combat oriented units I served in.

I went 6.8SPC on a hunting rifle build to enjoy the superior ballistics over the 5.56. In the meantime MO has done some things with the hunting and CCW laws which liberalized the use of 5.56. They moved to any centerfire cartridge, and actually passed CCW.

Taking that and my restricted use of the 6.8, mostly due to the $20 a box ammo constraint, the next build is an AR pistol in 5.56. First, I can use it in the MO Alternate season when the rifle isn't allowed. Second, the AR pistol can be much more of a SD weapon, carried loaded in the car, etc. Maybe I won't - but I can.

And to be good with it, I need to practice. 5.56 is about surplus ammo pricing, rounds well under $1 each, which is the standard pricing for most commercial loads. Surplus and milspec ammo, tho often goes for half or less. At the extreme ends, commercial loads are 3X more expensive.

Since SHOT PLACEMENT is more important than what intermediate cartridge is used, then PRACTICE is more important that caliber. It makes little difference that a 6.8 or other round is 50% more powerful than 5.56, or has more velocity, or more range, or more whatever. YOU HAVE TO MAKE A HIT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

That takes practice. If you can shoot 3X more ammo, it might not make your 3X better, but it can make you better enough to make a difference. You have to put rounds on target to make a hit, and a miss with any cartridge you use is still a miss - even more bluntly, a fail. You can't keep popping rounds and failing - shot placement is key, and the primary focus of what a gun is used for.

Pick the new boutique cartridge that want, load it up and set it in the corner to wait - because as already admitted, when it comes down to trigger time, the 5.56 will be the one practiced with and most used. It will be the one you have the most reliability in, too, as it will get the lion's share of attention as you use it. Not only will malfunctions get corrected you will train on stoppages and solutions.

The new rifle? Not so much. Ammo 3X higher will preclude it, it won't get the range time, and it won't get reliability tested. If it is in anyway different, then you won't have the familiarity of using it and the muscle memory you developed with the 5.56 gun won't transfer as readily.

5.56 does just fine, a round with 50% more power is nice to have, but it isn't all that in the larger scheme of things. And pushing it to another weapon that weighs two pounds more but won't carry as much ammo isn't necessarily an improvement.

 

[68wj]

6.8 SPC is my go to, but I feel obligated to keep a 5.56 around too.

 

[justin22885]

i was doing some ballistic comparisons, including two x39 loads (common 123 grain military load and a less common but more accurate 154 grain load) two 5.56 (common 62 grain SS109 and 75 grain match load) and what i discovered is the 62 grain SS109 easily beats out 123 grain x39 beyond 200 yards.. the 154 grain x39 though beats out the 75 grain 5.56 out to 800+ yards, but this isnt a common x39 load i'd be stocking up on and i dont see the 123 grain 7.62x39 load being significantly better than 5.56 inside 200 yards, and its weaker with more drop outside of 200.. so i do not think i will trade in 5.56 for 7.62x39

so i decided to compare some other loads, including .300 blackout which was weaker than both x39 and 5.56 at just about every range, seems no point in this cartridge outside of suppression.. and of course i compared the 6.5 grendel and 6.8SPC, what i learned about these two is the grendel by far beats every other cartridge with a modest 123 grain load, an added benefit is it can be made from cheap x39 brass and uses a more common (especially in eastern bloc rifles) 11.35mm bolt, meaning no bolt mods for converting 7.62x39 rifles to 6.5 grendel, only barrel and mags

what i learned about the 6.8SPC though does pretty well, by far it easily beats out 7.62x39, 5.56, and .300 blackout, falls short when compared to the grendel, and a downside is you need specially made brass for it, cant convert anything else, and this means you need to modify the bolt face and extractor.. however, most 5.56 bolts can be machined out for 6.8 and doesnt look too hard to modify an extractor for it so if i went that route im confident i'd be able to buy another AK-74 kit, machine out the bolt face, tweak the extractor, slap on a custom contoured barrel, and use 6.8mm AR-15 magazines via a riveted on magazine well adapter.. so that conversion is doable without too much work (id likely have to use an AR-15 magazine adapter for a grendel conversion too), and the SPC appears to me like a cartridge that may have less feeding problems in an automatic

so.. has the support for the grendel and SPC died out yet? id like something i can at least hope to find ammo for once in a while, though almost all my ammo is going to be handloads but i think after thinking about it a bit more, upgrading from 5.56 to 7.62x39 seems pointless to me, so if i do it i am considering the 6.5 grendel or 6.8SPC over anything else

 

[justin22885]

"Go to"? For what purpose? Defense? Hunting? Paper-punching/plinking?

all of the above

 

[68wj]

what i learned about the 6.8SPC ...is you need specially made brass for it, cant convert anything else, and this means you need to modify the bolt face and extractor..

Lots of production brass available. Here is some Federal once fired as low as $0.18/ea shipped price. http://www.maddogweapons.com/store/c7/Mad_Dog_Weapon_Systems_Exclusives.html

Bolts are available too without modifying anything (same as 5.56 extractor too). I bought a 6.8 bolt off the shelf 2 days ago for $59.99 and was ticked that I didn't just get some during the Christmas sales for half that. Chrome bolts were another $10 if that is your preference.

Ammo is out there too in the following flavors:
Barrett-------110 HPBT

BVAC---------110 VMax
--------------110 Accubond
--------------115 HPBT
--------------115 FMJ

Corbon-------110 TTSX
--------------115 SMK
--------------115 subsonic

DoubleTap-----95 TTSX
---------------110 Vmax
---------------115 FMJ
---------------110 TTSX
---------------110 OTM

Federal (et al)
---------------90 Gold Dot bonded
---------------115 Fusion


Good To Go Ammunition (contact for current availability)
---------------115 OTM
---------------120 SST

Hornady-------110 Vmax
---------------110 BTHP
---------------120 SST

Hunting Shack-110 VMax
---------------115 OTM

RAM-----------110 VMax
---------------115 OTM

Rem.---------115 FMJ
--------------115 HPBT
--------------115 Corelokt Bonded
--------------115 SMK

Sellier&Bellot---110 TSX
---------------110 PTS
---------------110 FMJ

SSA---Loads available in Commercial and Tactical velocities
----------------85 ETip
----------------85 TSX
----------------85 Barnes RRLP frangible
----------------95 TTSX
----------------97 AP
----------------100 Nosler Accubond
----------------110 Nosler Accubond
----------------110 Sierra Pro hunter
----------------110 TTSX
----------------115 SMK
----------------140 Berger VLD

Wilson Combat
----------------95 TTSX
----------------110 BTHP
----------------110 TSX

 

[justin22885]

68wj, i dont use AR-15s though, so any rifle i use will have to have its bolt modified for 6.8SPC.. i have no issues collecting once-fired brass and using it to stock up on cheap handloaded ammo.. 1,000 pieces of once fired 6.8SPC brass is close to $250 though, 1,000 pieces of .223 brass is like $85

once fired 7.62x39 brass is fairly cheap as well and can be shaped into 6.5 grendel, thus making it a hell of a lot cheaper to stock up on grendel ammo

 

[jmr40]

Keep the AR for most uses. Add a 308 in a short carbine length bolt gun. Something along the lines of one of the scout type rifles.

 

[Werndl]

Not sure what ur main focus will be, defense/hunting/plinking is a pretty broad starting point. For hunting i like the 6.8 in my limited experince w that caliber (deer). Probably too expensive/excessive for high vol shooting/paper punching. Blackout is lots of low recoil fun (currently enjoying working up load recipes w cast bullets now) and supposedly even more fun supressed (which i have no experience with ). Very capable with deer and paper as well. Ive hunted a bit with ar 10s and just way too big for deer and hog needs in that platform. Great out of bolt guns and encores, but the ar 10 is too big and bulky for the type of hunting i do. 7.62x39 is my go to defensive rd. Low recoil, surprisingly accurate out of my ak, reliable as heck and easy to find.
Buy one of each! They are like women, the world wouldnt run without redheads, blondes, AND brunettes!
YMMV

 

[Welding Rod]

What are you shooting that requires more than a 556?

If nothing, a change likely wouldn't make much sense due to the low cost and availability of the 223/556 compared to just about every other centerfire rifle cartridge.

 

[justin22885]

hmm, there also seems to be a 25-45 sharps cartridge, however this doesnt seem to do anything a 75-80 grain .223 wont