This guy is INSANE!

[Rail Driver]

I guess the "market" has spoken

The "market" you so snidely speak of are the people that would consider buying such a pistol... several of those people (or a random sample of the target market) have posted here stating that the asking price is either not unfair, or only slightly inflated. It looks to me like the market will bear that price and you're now only continuing the argument to try and save face because you hit the post button before thinking things through.

To be completely honest I'm thinking about making the guy an offer on his pistol, it's a beautiful example and would nicely round out my meager collection of 1911s. Right now I have a new production RIA that treats me well, a '90's production Colt Commander with a trigger that's short and sweet, now all I need is an old warhorse. I wonder if he'd swap for a converted saiga 12....?

 

[Wishoot]

He's just leaving a bit of wiggle room in the price.

 

[mfldmike]

I'm not trying to save "face" I'm just trying to consider both sides of the argument. I still think it's junk and over-inflated...I know two different people (personally) who have bought these at local gun shows for between $3-400.

I have shot them, I don't like them and compared to what my uncle and a close friend paid for their's I feel that this was WAY too much...

You're right, there is obviously a "market" for these weapons and the people in the market are always going to positive things about the weapon.

For Example:
I wouldn't touch an iPad 2 when it came out because of price gouging, but because a LOT of sellers did, it was thought as "savvy business." The people who paid $800+ for a base line iPad 2 were in more or less words screwed, and I feel that the people who are paying this on gunbroker are going to realize the same. Yes, I know the product was not yet released and this is considered collective, but the same principles of supply and demand still survive.

It is what it is....

 

[Bozwell]

I feel like you may be oversimplifying things when it comes to market principles. Early iPad2 adopters weren't screwed - they got early access to the newest technology that they obviously wanted and were willing to pay more for. You can always wait until a new technology is no longer "new" and pay less for it - however, you're giving up being able to own it when it's still the latest and greatest. That may not be important to you and that's fine, but you can't just say those people were "screwed" and "it is what it is." As another example, when they released the redesigned BMW X3, it took them a year or so for them to get the BMW factory in China up and going. As such, the only new X3's available in China that year were imported and due to Chinese import laws, cost about double what a locally-made one would cost. As such, people were paying well over 100 grand for X3's that year (well more than the larger and normally higher-priced X5's) because the new X3's were rare and it was viewed as a status symbol.

However, those people weren't screwed - they made the conscious choice that it's worth more to them to pay more for the new X3 that year than to wait a year and pay half as much. What you're missing is that value is often subjective and what may not be worth it to you may be worth it to someone else. Also, recognize that the poster in that link simply listed the gun for the price - if the price is above market price, it's likely no one will buy his firearm. Nothing says a buyer has to buy that particular firearm. However, if someone decides they really want it and that it's worth that much to them, more power to them. Someone already mentioned it, but if you don't want to pay that much for it, don't. People make all sorts of guns that I could buy right now but I choose not to because it's not worth it to me. However, I'm not going to create a thread and talk about how it's not worth it to me to pay X dollars for Y gun and treat my opinion as if it's fact.

 

[mfldmike]

I'll agree however, I still stand by opinion. The original issue was that "I" thought/think the guy is asking a ridiculous price for the weapon...it's my opinion...that's it. After reading some of the opinions of this thread, I can consider the fact that I may have been a little excitable in what I thought was an acceptable price. I thought it was a cut and dry issue until I considered that it may be ridiculous to me...but it could be completely acceptable to someone else.

Will I still flag the person's ad? .... Yes

Will I post it to a diverse community forum? Probably Not

Am I trying to save face? NO, I completely stand my original assessment of what I think...HOWEVER...I can appreciate the "constructive" input from other forum members.

 

[Bozwell]

Oh, and don't get me wrong. I'm not planning to run out and drop a grand on that gun either.

 

[KodiakBeer]

I'm not trying to save "face" I'm just trying to consider both sides of the argument. I still think it's junk and over-inflated...I know two different people (personally) who have bought these at local gun shows for between $3-400.

20 years ago when Argentina dumped the last ones on the market they were going for $250 to $300. I know, I bought one. Most of those imports ended up being modified to one degree or another and are no longer original or collectable - this may be what you see at gun shows for $300 to $400.
These guns were made under license to Colt, on Colt machinery. They aren't junk, any more than a WWII era Colt is junk. Those in original condition are getting rare and command a premium. They aren't as valuable as a Colt of course, but are a rare enough variant of the military 1911 to appeal to collectors.

I agree that $1000 is a bit high, but not nutty high.

Something similar is happening with the old FM Hi Power. Those made in Argentina under license to FN (not the new FM 90's, etc) are beginning to be respected by collectors because just like the Sistema Colt they are a rare variant of a popular pistol. They get rarer every year and the value rises.

 

[WC145]

Geez, it has nothing to do with you and it's none of your business, get over it!!:banghead:

 

[mfldmike]

Geez, it has nothing to do with you and it's none of your business, get over it!!

You know what? Frankly I'm sick of attitudes such as yours. If you haven't forgotten, this IS a public forum that discusses these sorts of things. It works off the same principle from your own comment, as in...nobody inviting YOU to this conversation.

I had some hostility at the guy originally posting this ad at first but after listening to the opinion of others I can partially understand the reasoning. I like CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, your post doesn't contribute anything to the original conversation....How about 86-in it

 

[WC145]

By posting you invite EVERYBODY into the conversation. You want to complain about the guy's asking price for his gun but it has absoluely nothing to do with you. You're not buying, your not bidding, you're just complaining that he's asking more than you think he should be. You've got no reason to have any hostility towards the guy originally posting the ad because it hasn't got a thing to do with you.

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Whoa! Let's enjoy everybody's opinion & settle this the easiest way possible. That pistol is worth EXACTLY what the next owner...is willing to PAY for it. Not one penny more or less. Past that, all this is just opinionation. And we ALL know how much THAT'S worth!

 

[Double Naught Spy]

I had some hostility at the guy originally posting this ad at first but after listening to the opinion of others I can partially understand the reasoning. I like CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, your post doesn't contribute anything to the original conversation.

Okay, here is some constructive criticism. How about actually determining what the going prices are before posting that the seller is insane, that the price is quadruple its value, and that an attempt to sell it at that price is immoral or borderline criminal. You were flat out wrong on all those accounts, regardless of your opinion about the guns, your outdated books, and what your friends have done in the past.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/SearchResults.aspx
http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/usa/all?sellertype=&search=argentine+colt
http://www.gunauction.com/search/auctions.aspx

Will I still flag the person's ad? .... Yes

Will I post it to a diverse community forum? Probably Not

You aren't doing anyone any favors by wrongfully flagging the auction due to your ignorance about the gun and its value.

You did post it to a diverse community forum.

 

[gun addict]

Mike, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to 1911s. If you think a RIA is on the same quality with an Argentine Colt you're grossly misinformed, or just plain ignorant. The Argentine 1911 is made with top notch steel from Sweden and built on original colt machinery/specification.

Is the seller asking too high of a price? Sure, but it's his ad, i've seen junk tricked out SKSs with craploads of nasty accessories dangling on it for 3 times its actual value but so what, free market is just that

 

[Dan-O]

Thank god for the capitalist country we live in. If you don't want to buy, then move on, and quit whining about it.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

someone will buy it lol

 

[texagun]

The current 2011 edition of the Blue Book Of Gun Values would be the best and most accurate source of values based on recent sales and auctions. It lists a 95% Modelo of 1927 at $1000. So with the extra Colt barrel, depending on condition of both pieces, he's right in line with the market. I see beaters in 50-60% condition at the local gun shows priced at $700-$800...however they rarely sell at those prices.

 

[tipoc]

"This guy is INSANE!"...

is the title of the thread. Maybe the OP, as he has learned a bit more about the gun in question and the market for it, can see that the seller of the gun may not be so "insane". A bit optimistic but not stone crazy or trying to rip folks off.

Maybe also the OP can see that sometimes it's best to positively identify the target before pulling the trigger.

tipoc

 

[K-Rod]

I love these threads! I'm popping corn right now!!

Let me put this a way you might understand:
I bet there's some "Ole Timers" floating around this forum that wished they kept or still had the little worthless piece of cardboard cards that had a picture their favorite baseball player on them. Now a days that worthless piece of paper could potentially be a down payment on a house!! Just because you think its some "El cheapo piece of junk" not worth more than $300, doesn't mean there's not collectors out there that can afford or would pay an ungodly amount of money to have it to add to their collection. The owner isn't "Insane". He realizes there's a market for collectibles & will potentially get close to if not more for it because there are those hardcore collectors out there that can afford to pay this "Insane" price. Just because you can't afford it, or because you can't understand it, doesn't give you the right to bash it.

This reminds me of that "Rhino" fellow from about a year ago that would get everyone here all worked up because of the "Duke" threads & posts he made. Turns out we were all arguing with 13yr old that thought he was the hands down best firearm enthusiast because he had an internet connection.

Stick around son, you might learn something but you need to get control of that brain mouth filter

 

[Ringolevio]

You sound like an anti-capitalist

mfldmike:

I'm all about making a profit but this is immoral and borderline criminal.

Unless the seller is pointing said gun at the buyer's head, I fail to see anything "criminal" here, "borderline" or otherwise.

'Sorry to add to any "hostility" here, but I gotta tell ya, Mike, your attitude about someone going for maximum profit in a free market makes you sound as if you'd be right at home among the "Occupy" this-or-that protest crowd.

I'm talking about people who have no clue what it takes to operate a viable business; people who don't understand all the expenses that have to be covered by markup, and that the seller's net profit is what's left after all those expenses have been covered.

Nor do they understand that in order to buy at wholesale, the seller might have had to buy a dozen, or a gross, or a carload. They don't understand any of this, but they are quick to condemn as "greedy" anyone who tries to maximize his profit without putting a gun to the buyer's head.

As it happens, I own a Colt Sistema Model 1927, made in Argentina in 1948, so it is exactly as old as I am. I bought it some 10 years ago for $400. I also have 2 newer Colt 1911s, one of which I bought NIB for $1000.

The funny thing is that if I had to bet on one of the three to be absolutely 100% reliable, it would be the Sistema. There is nothing cheaply-made about it. The newer Colts are no slouches either, but to put the 63 yr. old Sistema up against some 1911 made in the Philippines or who-knows-where and with a cast frame and MIM parts, there's no comparison. And you would have to offer me a lot more than $1000 for it, because I really have no desire to part with it.